[quote]bantamlb5 wrote:
good one[/quote]
Is it just me or did you just ruin my thread?
[quote]bantamlb5 wrote:
Finally, the idiot that likened walking and running since youth compared to hockey players playing since they were little. Let me just destroy that remark very quickly here. Playing hockey since inception, therefore turning the individual eventually into a skilled player is no where in the same [/quote]
most of the hockey players have been skating since they were four. the football players have been running about as long. this is a test of locomotion ability, not sport-specific skills. how difficult is that to grasp?
i’ve already provided evidence to support my claim. you’ve just spouted a lot of bullshit.
A) No i didnt ruin your thread you moron.
B) Ask CT or Defranco what would happen. Your all living in an illusion.
C) Doesnt matter anyway, cause none of you tools can beat me.
D) See ya.
E) Gonna be real funny when someone responds to this making fun of my post or making fun of me, because it will be so juvinielle and spiteful. Good work morons.
[quote]bantamlb5 wrote:
A) No i didnt ruin your thread you moron.
B) Ask CT or Defranco what would happen. Your all living in an illusion.
C) Doesnt matter anyway, cause none of you tools can beat me.
D) See ya.
E) Gonna be real funny when someone responds to this making fun of my post or making fun of me, because it will be so juvinielle and spiteful. Good work morons.[/quote]
Hmm… I don’t know if throwing rocks in a house of glass is a very good idea… 
you seem both juvenile and quite spiteful in both this and the previous post.
Look at the facts. Compare 100m, 50m and other distances on ice with turf… watch high lvl international skating… our “illusion” is based on the empirical evidence out there, your “proof” is claiming that someone that most likely will realize this too… will come to your rescue, are you unable to back your OWN claims up…?
[quote]bantamlb5 wrote:
A) No i didnt ruin your thread you moron.
B) Ask CT or Defranco what would happen. Your all living in an illusion.
C) Doesnt matter anyway, cause none of you tools can beat me.
D) See ya.
E) Gonna be real funny when someone responds to this making fun of my post or making fun of me, because it will be so juvinielle and spiteful. Good work morons.[/quote]
“None of you tools can beat me”?
Are you freaking kidding me?
Dude - just stop now. You are talking out of your ass. Look-how-big-my-dick-is arguments may win debates for you among your little gaggle of buddies - but that particular bit of “proof” doesn’t mean shit around here.
FWIW -
I think that the race would be very close.
In full gear - I’d call it dead even.
In the attire of their choice - I give it to the hockey player.
[quote]bantamlb5 wrote:
A) No i didnt ruin your thread you moron.
B) Ask CT or Defranco what would happen. Your all living in an illusion.
C) Doesnt matter anyway, cause none of you tools can beat me.
D) See ya.
E) Gonna be real funny when someone responds to this making fun of my post or making fun of me, because it will be so juvinielle and spiteful. Good work morons.[/quote]
A) Yes you did. Up 'till now the responses have been thoughtful and articulate. Yours were niether.
B) CT and DeFranco would disagree with you even if you were right because you suck.
C) Beat you, as in “beat you in a race” or “beat you in your face”?
D) See ya.
[quote]eic wrote:
But when it comes to accelerating, a lack of friction seems to be the enemy. Think of starting to accelerate your car when its icy. Push the gas too hard too fast and your wheels will spin. So a skater probably can’t go stir crazy in trying to accelerate without spinning his wheels, so to speak. [/quote]
Clearly you’ve never been on skates before. As another poster mentioned, the skates are angled outwards during acceleration. The long sharp edge of the skate blade allows the skater to push with 100% of his force, with little to no slippage. The fastest “accelerators” in the NHL are at top speed in 2-3 strides. Skater wins.
[quote]TheSofaKing wrote:
Clearly you’ve never been on skates before. As another poster mentioned, the skates are angled outwards during acceleration. The long sharp edge of the skate blade allows the skater to push with 100% of his force, with little to no slippage. The fastest “accelerators” in the NHL are at top speed in 2-3 strides. Skater wins.
[/quote]
The fact that you must change the angle of your skates during an acceleration phase to a “top-speed” phase proves my point. Acceleration on ice is not natural and, if done correctly (as you describe), must be a compromise between achieving maximum friction on a surface that has minimal friction as its chief characteristic.
If this were not the case, you wouldn’t have the skates “angeled outwards during acceleration.” Whether good skaters are good accelerators is not the point; the point is whether a good skater on ice can accelerate faster than a sprinter on ground.
Are you suggesting that a skater would win even a 10 yd. sprint? 20? Now you understand my point.
There is no top speed phase. The blades are always angled outwards while making a stride, as the blade has no traction in any other position, at any speed. I would also suggest that this requirement does not inhibit the length or force of the stride in any significant manner.
[quote]eic wrote:
TheSofaKing wrote:
Clearly you’ve never been on skates before. As another poster mentioned, the skates are angled outwards during acceleration. The long sharp edge of the skate blade allows the skater to push with 100% of his force, with little to no slippage. The fastest “accelerators” in the NHL are at top speed in 2-3 strides. Skater wins.
The fact that you must change the angle of your skates during an acceleration phase to a “top-speed” phase proves my point. Acceleration on ice is not natural and, if done correctly (as you describe), must be a compromise between achieving maximum friction on a surface that has minimal friction as its chief characteristic.
If this were not the case, you wouldn’t have the skates “angeled outwards during acceleration.” Whether good skaters are good accelerators is not the point; the point is whether a good skater on ice can accelerate faster than a sprinter on ground.
Are you suggesting that a skater would win even a 10 yd. sprint? 20? Now you understand my point. [/quote]
[quote]eic wrote:
Are you suggesting that a skater would win even a 10 yd. sprint? 20? Now you understand my point. [/quote]
Are you suggesting the opposite?
[quote]bantamlb5 wrote:
Secocndly, I didnt say that they werent good at thier sport I said hockey players on the whole are a shitload less “athletic” and explosive than NFL players. This is just fact. Neurogically, Muscularly, Speed, Strength, Build, etc…Again, I am making it clear that I am not including offensive lineman or defensive tackles because of thier disproportional freakish size opposed to athletes in any other sport.
P.S. NHL players are highly skilled and athletic and I realize this, NFL football players are just the best athletes onthe planet genetically, for the most part of course, there are exceptions to any rule.[/quote]
Your argument that Hockey players are significantly less athletic than Football players is simply untrue. As is your claim that football players are the best athletes on the planet. Maybe in the tiny corner of the world that is the USA, but globally the best athletes are Soccer players (or Football as it is rightly called everywhere but in North America).
95% of the population couldn’t care less about the NFL so unless you are dumb enough to believe that the best athletes on the planet all come from 5% of the population, you can’t honestly think that the NFL has the world’s best athletes.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
eic wrote:
TheSofaKing wrote:
Clearly you’ve never been on skates before. As another poster mentioned, the skates are angled outwards during acceleration. The long sharp edge of the skate blade allows the skater to push with 100% of his force, with little to no slippage. The fastest “accelerators” in the NHL are at top speed in 2-3 strides. Skater wins.
The fact that you must change the angle of your skates during an acceleration phase to a “top-speed” phase proves my point. Acceleration on ice is not natural and, if done correctly (as you describe), must be a compromise between achieving maximum friction on a surface that has minimal friction as its chief characteristic.
If this were not the case, you wouldn’t have the skates “angeled outwards during acceleration.” Whether good skaters are good accelerators is not the point; the point is whether a good skater on ice can accelerate faster than a sprinter on ground.
Are you suggesting that a skater would win even a 10 yd. sprint? 20? Now you understand my point.
Very good post. But blind loyalty will prohibit many from agreeing.
[/quote]
i’ll let logic do the disagreeing for me. the original post really sounds like it’s from someone with limited experience with skating. skaters get very good acceleration on ice by digging into the ice with their blades as they push off.
there is no difference between ‘acceleration mode’ and ‘top speed mode’. but in hockey there is ‘acceleration’ and ‘coasting’. there is no ‘coasting’ in a sprint on the ground, so there’s really no cause for comparison between the two. a skater in a sprint will be accelerating the entire time.
i’m curious as to why everyone is still trying these thought experiments when the empirical evidence has already been presented that it would be a close race over 40 yards, which implies at least that the average speed of each over that distance is roughly the same.
[quote]Mujina wrote:
the original post really sounds like it’s from someone with limited experience with skating. skaters get very good acceleration on ice by digging into the ice with their blades as they push off.
[/quote]
I’m going to assume that by “the original post” you did not mean me (derek) and my original posting of this question. The reason I say that is because I have quite a bit of experience with skating and also said that a skater gets very good traction on ice. Like I said, you probably weren’t referring to me.
It is clear though.
A race to 220yd the skater will win.
40 yd is too close to tell, and many times the sprinter might just win that event.
A hockey player might bee able to build a higher top speed in a game however due to the fact he could be moving 10-15 mph and turn around and then have to accelerate most of the length of the rink in the opposite direction…
[quote]derek wrote:
Mujina wrote:
the original post really sounds like it’s from someone with limited experience with skating. skaters get very good acceleration on ice by digging into the ice with their blades as they push off.
I’m going to assume that by “the original post” you did not mean me (derek) and my original posting of this question. The reason I say that is because I have quite a bit of experience with skating and also said that a skater gets very good traction on ice. Like I said, you probably weren’t referring to me.
[/quote]
correct. i was referring to eic’s post, i just worded it poorly.
It would be helpful (I suppose) to see what a great 40 on skates would be compared to the same athlete on grass/turf.
Given that the skater has some time to develop his abilities fairly equally in both events (sprint mechanics, start etc.)
I don’t agree. I think some of these comments are dumb. You can get quite a fast acceleration on the ice. If slightly slower than on turf, there’s enough time to make up the ground with the faster skating speed, even in as short a race as the 40.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
derek wrote:
Given that the skater has some time to develop his abilities fairly equally in both events (sprint mechanics, start etc.)
I think there in lies the fundamental problem. And something that I stated earlier. I’ll state it a bit differently this time:
Who could put more weight over their head a world class powerlifter or an olympic lifter?
Who could hit a baseball with more regularity, a basketball player or a baseball player?
And who could sprint…on grass (or turf) faster a hockey player or a football player?
I think the answer is obvious. While I give mad props to the hockey player as being a tremendous athlete, it’s the football player who has trained “sports specific” on a regular basis for this particular activity.
Again, I take nothing away from the great speed and also coordination of the hockey player, or any of the other athletes trying to perform in someone else’s domain.[/quote]
Gimme a break. The Sprinter runs better than a biker, but the biker can do a 100 meter sprint faster. I think it’s been done in around 3 seconds on a bike. If the football player and hockey player were both on foot, the football player would certainly win.