T Nation

Need advice on Mag-10 and fat loss plan

I’ve been working out for years, and never experimented with steroids. I’ve also never tried any Biotest products or prohormones. Lately it appears like I will have a few months free to train without distractions, and (finally) enough money to afford a cycle of Mag-10, along with whatever other (legal) aids I might need. However, I need some help designing a plan.

My #1 goal is fat loss followed closely by size and strength gains (big surprise, eh). I am simply too fat at something like 20% bodyfat and 240 pounds (5'11"). I have never EVER had a six-pack, after some 20 years of training...pathetic! However, I have been using the Poliquin diet for the past 3 weeks with great results. (I must have no tolerance for starches whatsoever... potatoes make me fat! Fibrous greens are rocking my world! Also, the fish oil seems to keep me sane, even though my carbs are at the 100 gram mark. Previous attempts at low carbs without fish oil had me getting flu symptoms, and very tweaky.)

ANYWAY…I was wondering if I should continue to get leaner first, before going on Mag-10, or should I go on Mag-10 first, knowing that I should be “eating big” to gain mass? I vaguely recall a thread about dropping fat while on Mag-10, but I couldn’t find it. Here’s what I was thinking:

5 or 6 weeks on Methoxy-7 and Poliquin diet, first.

10 weeks on Mag-10 and Myostatin, eating big.

4 or more weeks on Tribex and M, Poliquin diet. Possibly indefinitely…

Comments? Suggestions? I need a little coaching here. Again, this will be my first-ever experience with any pro-hormones, and I would like to make the most of it, as well as hang on to my gains. But I want to get cut as well. What’s the best way to approach this? Should any of these supplements overlap?

Okay, either nobody knows, or nobody cares…

Does it make more sense to try to get lean BEFORE a Mag-10 cycle or AFTER?

If I also use Myostatin, Methoxy-7 too, should there be any overlap of these supplements?

Anybody have an informed opinion?

How about doing Meltdown/T-Dawg for 4 weeks then take a week off then do couple of 2 week cycles of Mag-10 doing Growth Surge II/Steroid Dieting.I did this same routine and saw a 10% reduction in BF and gained some Muscle as well.

Good Luck, KraigY

Okay, I suppose I’ll takle this one, if only because I can’t stand you thinking that I don’t care. For shame!

Now, first a few concerns. I completely understand that you are both fed up and frustrated with dieting. There is a good reason for this: it sucks.

That being said, I understand that you want to go on a bulking cycle, as the greater metabolic rate that more muslce would give you would me that dieting wouldn't be "as hard" or that you could eat more calories. This is partially true.

However, keep in mind that you WILL gain some fat while on Mag-10. It would be very difficult not to, and generally only genetic freaks or mesomorphs, or people who respond EXTREMELY well anabolically to Mag-10 do not again fat. If I am to judge by your posts, it seems that you are the type of person to put fat on fairly easily.

The issue has been repeatedly addressed on this forum, and the gneral consensus is that it is usually better to get as lean as possible before you begin a bulking cycle.

Reason being: in most cases, the leaner you already are, the leaner you are likely to stay while overeating.

Likewise, the fatter you are, the more fat you are likely to put on.

All of that aside, though, my biggest concern is planning and timing. Starting a bulking cycle should be treated much like starting a cutting cycle: you should sort of ease into it, and never go from one extreme to another.

What I mean is, if you go on a bulking cycle and gain some mass, if you immediately try to cut, bad things will result. Here's a quote from "The Growth Surge Project" :

"One problem we?ve noticed is that while most people have the balls to dive into an intense program like the one in Stage 2, very few have the discipline to 'do the right thing' after such a program. What?s the right thing to do? Well, first off, you do not want to go on a strict, low calorie keto diet and do excessive cardio! If you do, then you?re just asking to lose your hard-earned new muscle. "

My point is that the very same priniple applies to going from dieting into a bulking cycle. If you've been on a fairly low-carb diet into a bulking cycle which is very dependent on carbs, you're going to experience a huge rebound effect that even something as anabolic as Mag-10 will not be able to fully prevent. Hence, you'll likely gain back a lot of the fat you lost.

You've said that you feel your body has adapted to your diet and is no longer losing fat. You may be right. My advice is to stop dieting.

Try eating maintanence calories with slightly higher carbs for a few weeks, but reintroduce those carbs SLOWLY. After about three weeks, if you being cutting again, you'll notice that you are able to break your previous plateau.

After that, once you've gotten lean enough -- maybe 10-12% body fat, you can go on maintanence calories for another few weeks, and THEN bulk using Mag-10.

Another option would be to add in a slightly higher carb[-up] day every week or week and a half. Or you could try calorie bouncing. The only reason I suggested coming off your diet was for your own psychological relief, because I've been there myself.

This is a problem many people have had, but if you take it slowly you should be able to meet your goals. Rushing it will only give you less than optimal results. I am certain other people will post with more insight, as well. I hope any of this helps, and good luck.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.

Thanks for the advice! I will definitely ease into the different phases of diet, as suggested. Right now I actually am still having some good progress with (my version) of what people are calling “Poliquin diet”. I am concentrating on fibrous greens for carbs, and getting lots of fish oil, and I think those two factors are key for me. (I’m staying close to 100 carbs a day, and fibrous greens are about all I CAN eat, to make that happen LOL). So I’m not yet at a standstill, it’s been working for me. However, I will temporarily ramp the carbs back up slightly as suggested, as a break, before resuming a tighter diet.

Thank you!!!

I’ve read countless bodybuilding articles over the past 7 years. None of them ever suggested bulking when your initial BF is 20%.

As a matter of fact the highest upper limit I’ve heard of bulking to is 15%. That means that you should be well under 15% to start bulking because you will no doubt add fat despite your well planned strategy.

JMB even argues that the leaner a trainee initially starts a bulk phase: the leaner ratio his gains will be. Although I’ve heard many interesting counter arguements to that its still something to keep in mind.

Lumpy, I’m glad I could help. Keep us updated on your progress, and good luck!

First, what Trev (John Roman) said was spot on. Not too often you’re going to get advice that’s that good. Best take it.

A couple of other suggestions:

If/when your fat loss stops, switching up your programs (i.e., trying something like Meltdown) will probably kick-start it again. Think of this as another weapon in your fat-loss arsenal.

Along the same lines, try adding in a bit of cardio (not a whole lot). If you’re like me, you absolutely loath running, but I’ve gotten into jumping rope lately (a la the Meltdown protocol) and it’s very cool. Again, something to add to your fat-loss efforts.

Definitely get your fat down to around 12% before you start bulking.

If I were you I’d save the MAG-10 for your bulking cycle and use either Methoxy or an AD product while cutting. It’ll be cheaper and probably work just as well for you, especially if you’re an endomorph (which is what it sounds like). If money is an issue, then I’d also lay off the Myostat while dieting.

Good luck.