Michele Bachmann; Thoughts?

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Thanks, Zeb.

I don’t know if it was JUST the media that hounded Romney on his beliefs.

When he was on the stump, especially in the Southern and Mid-Western “Bible Belt” States…he was continually ridiculed and harassed about his beliefs just by “regular folks” at the meetings.

This all lead to his speech on tolerance. (Great speech…I’ll see if I can find it after work).

Mufasa[/quote]

You are partially correct. But the only reason that regular folks even asked was because the main stream liberal media made an issue of it. If they had made an issue out of Obama growing up Muslim, or the hate filled Church he attended for 20 years then people would have been asking about that. The media has the power to dictate the conversation.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I’m not saying he will make another run, but If Ron Paul DOES run a primary bid, you know for a fact his run will be even stronger than he previous primary run. The Tea Party Can’t Not Support him, and he is very good in debates. He IS the type of politician we all say we like, running clean campaigns, getting most of the money from the grassroots, not attacking other people just their positions. [/quote]

Respectfully, a clueless post. Ron Paul is an afterthought for 2012. The Tea Party didn’t materially reference him throughout 2008-10, and they aren’t interested in him.

He was a weak candidate in 2008 (obviously) and he would be an even weaked one in 2012.[/quote]

Just the Type of Attitude that got the GOP into trouble in the first place.

Few little things to KNOW about the TEA PARTY. It started Approx Feb 2009, But There is a reason a Video of a Guy smashing against the stiumulus went Viral. That would be because of the MILLIONS of Ron Paul Supporters who waged Political war for the prior 3 years only to have the GOP brush them away like some annoying insect Pickin up on it. The Tea Party is the Transformation of the Ron Paul Movement. I am in a local Tea Party Chapter. I go to meetings. 50% of the members including ALL the organizers ARE Ron Paul People. Those who are coming over from the GOP are learning Who Ron Paul is and Why he is important, at the very least as a teacher and the modern father of the movement.

You can sit behind your computer and read blogs and articles, I am telling you what is happening in my group and in other groups who I am linked to in my area on meetup.com. I get the daily messages from these groups so I can speak pretty accurately about what is discussed and what is important to the movement. Do you think Rand Pauls victory was just some cute coincidence?

The actual structure of the Official Ron Paul 2008 Campaign still exists today under the Title of Campaign For Liberty. But the Grassroots that made ron Paul strong has loosley organized into the “Tea Party”.

Here is some snippets from an interview with Ron Paul.

http://okhenderson.com/2010/10/28/ron-paul-in-iowa-talking-tea-party-12/

I asked him about the Tea Party movement, and whether he traces its beginnings to the August recess of 2009, or to his own presidential campaign.

â??Oh, yeah, absolutely. It was related to our presidential campaign, even though it wasnâ??t organized by our presidential campaign, but it was on the authentic day of the Tea Party and it was December 16 in â??07 and that was the day the supporters were excited and they started doing things on the Internet, and they had a Tea Party and it strung up all around the country and they raised over $6 million,â?? Paul said. â??But thatâ??s generally forgotten. Not too many people mention it, but I think it (the Tea Party movement) was sort of an outgrowth of that, but because the outgrowth was big and spontaneous, of course, it wasnâ??t directed only to the views that I had been expressing.â??

How strong is the contingent of Ron Paul supporters in each Tea Party organization thatâ??s springing up around the country?

â??Itâ??s not all just Ron Paul people,â?? Paul said, but he considers the influence of his supporters to be â??pretty pervasiveâ?? within the movement.

V

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Bachman, Palin, Haley Barbour and Mike Huckabee have ZERO chance of beating Obama. They might help at the bottom of the ticket but that’s it. [/quote]

The polls I’ve seen, including the recent CNN poll, Huckabee beats Obama. Followed only by Romney. [/quote]

Yeah, Huckabee has the exposure right now with his TV show. I like Huckabee, I think he’s a very gifted speaker and comes off as a genuince guy. But he used to be a Minister and the mainstream liberal media would probably have everyone thinking that he’d force people into Christianity if elected. There are other problems with Huckabee as well once a campaign heats up.

The same thing with Romney. You remember how the media took Romney apart for his mormonism. And at the same time Obama was raised a Muslim as a youth and no one said a word -And on top of that Obama attended a racially charged hate filled church for 20 years and the mainstream liberal media said nothing.

The republicans have to be very careful who is put up as the republican candidate. Keep in mind we witnessed the death of the independent media in 08’. They won’t be getting any better in 12’. They have nothing to lose now the world knows that they’re whores for the democratic party and especially the far left.
[/quote]

I’m not all concerned with what the media would do with the republican nominee, though. If it isn’t Huck’s or Romney’s faith, it’ll be some nominee’s plan to have “old people eating dog food.” You can’t get careful enough, outside of actuaul ethical transgressions, the Dem nominee will get the majority of positive coverage, regardless. You need a nominee who can field interviews–where they might have a chance at getting their message across in their own words–with articulation and wit. Again, outside of real skeletons in the closet, forget the media. [/quote]

It’s easy to say forget the media, but that’s like starting a baseball game already down by 3 runs. And this particular media is no longer even trying to look like they are fair. Seriously, the republican whomever he or she may be is in for a serious shit storm.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Does that mean liberals are even more intolernat because they’d vote in lesser numbers for a devout and practicing baptist or mormon? Hadn’t thought of it in that way…[/quote]

To be a liberal you must be intolerant, as it goes with the territory. How can you try to sensor speech, grow government, take away hand guns, raise taxes and in general be in charge of the thought police and not be a liberal?

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I’m not saying he will make another run, but If Ron Paul DOES run a primary bid, you know for a fact his run will be even stronger than he previous primary run. The Tea Party Can’t Not Support him, and he is very good in debates. He IS the type of politician we all say we like, running clean campaigns, getting most of the money from the grassroots, not attacking other people just their positions.

I hope he runs, If not, I need to see a Limited Government Republican run or I’m voting Libertarian again.

V[/quote]

Paul will never be elected President of the United States. He is not a marketable commodity ina a media and Internet savvy age. Perhaps at the bottom of the ticket, but even then he does not have what it takes to help at that level. How about a nice cabinet appointment for him? Maybe I can do something there, call me we’ll have lunch.
[/quote]

I never said he would be, All I really said was IF he decides to run, he is going to be a major handful in the GOP primary. He has a LOT more backers, He cannot be kept out of debates or the Tea Party will flip thier wigs and they are too big of a movement for the GOP to ignore right now. Personally, I think your arrogance for “knowing” he will never be president is a tad bit sad. If you have such an ability to know the future, I’d expect you to have predicted the winner of all of the past elections. Should I go back and see if you KNEW McCain would win?

V

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I’m not saying he will make another run, but If Ron Paul DOES run a primary bid, you know for a fact his run will be even stronger than he previous primary run. The Tea Party Can’t Not Support him, and he is very good in debates. He IS the type of politician we all say we like, running clean campaigns, getting most of the money from the grassroots, not attacking other people just their positions. [/quote]

Respectfully, a clueless post. Ron Paul is an afterthought for 2012. The Tea Party didn’t materially reference him throughout 2008-10, and they aren’t interested in him.

He was a weak candidate in 2008 (obviously) and he would be an even weaked one in 2012.[/quote]

Ahh yes, I just imagined all the end the fed signs I saw at rallies I attended, what tea party chapter are you in again?[/quote]

John, wake up please. Those signs have nothing to do with them being interested in Paul as a candidate. How come people can’t see that Paul would be a poor candidate after he has been a poor candidate in the past? I just don’t get how you and some of the others think?

Picture Paul standing next to Obama at a debate. One crotchety old man preaching fear and warning everyone of doom and gloom vs one stellar looking President who is able to excite the voters.

HE IS NOT ELECTABLE - PLEASE DON’T MENTION IT EVER AGAIN!

Thanks,

Zeb

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I’m not saying he will make another run, but If Ron Paul DOES run a primary bid, you know for a fact his run will be even stronger than he previous primary run. The Tea Party Can’t Not Support him, and he is very good in debates. He IS the type of politician we all say we like, running clean campaigns, getting most of the money from the grassroots, not attacking other people just their positions. [/quote]

Respectfully, a clueless post. Ron Paul is an afterthought for 2012. The Tea Party didn’t materially reference him throughout 2008-10, and they aren’t interested in him.

He was a weak candidate in 2008 (obviously) and he would be an even weaked one in 2012.[/quote]

Ahh yes, I just imagined all the end the fed signs I saw at rallies I attended, what tea party chapter are you in again?[/quote]

John, wake up please. Those signs have nothing to do with them being interested in Paul as a candidate. How come people can’t see that Paul would be a poor candidate after he has been a poor candidate in the past? I just don’t get how you and some of the others think?

Picture Paul standing next to Obama at a debate. One crotchety old man preaching fear and warning everyone of doom and gloom vs one stellar looking President who is able to excite the voters.

HE IS NOT ELECTABLE - PLEASE DON’T MENTION IT EVER AGAIN!

Thanks,

Zeb
[/quote]

I dunno.

That could work in his advantage.

Obama could look glib and like a lightweight, which is basically what he is.

He is an awesome campaigner though, but Paul is too, in a very weird way.

[quote]John S. wrote:

Ahh yes, I just imagined all the end the fed signs I saw at rallies I attended, what tea party chapter are you in again?[/quote]

How’s that at all indicative of Tea Party - as a whole - support for Ron Paul? It’s not - it’s just another projection of Paul supporters trying to find a home in American politics.

Paul will be 77 in 2012. No one will vote for a 77-year old candidate.

For once, use common sense. I beg you.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
<<< Religious conservatives will never allow the election of a Mormon President (either in Romney or Huntsmann). >>>[/quote]This isn’t necessarily true. If I didn’t vote for Romney it wouldn’t be because he was a mormon. Even though I view the LDS church as housing some of the most hair raisingly false doctrine ever spawned on this earth the church and it’s committed members (of which Romney isn’t even probably one) are conservative across the board and patriotic to the bone.
[/quote]

Without getting into a religious debate the typically accepted story of Christ is an amalgamation of the Hercules myth, the Mithra myth and probably a dozen other stories.

Of course the Mormon version of Christ rings false but that is only because of our close proximity.

The Mormons I know are some of the most decent people around and have a true sense of community. I kind of wish I didn’t find so much of it silly.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I’m not saying he will make another run, but If Ron Paul DOES run a primary bid, you know for a fact his run will be even stronger than he previous primary run. The Tea Party Can’t Not Support him, and he is very good in debates. He IS the type of politician we all say we like, running clean campaigns, getting most of the money from the grassroots, not attacking other people just their positions. [/quote]

Respectfully, a clueless post. Ron Paul is an afterthought for 2012. The Tea Party didn’t materially reference him throughout 2008-10, and they aren’t interested in him.

He was a weak candidate in 2008 (obviously) and he would be an even weaked one in 2012.[/quote]

Agreed. Terrible candidate but he knows how to line his pockets. I wonder what happened to his 2008 warchest.

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I’m not saying he will make another run, but If Ron Paul DOES run a primary bid, you know for a fact his run will be even stronger than he previous primary run. The Tea Party Can’t Not Support him, and he is very good in debates. He IS the type of politician we all say we like, running clean campaigns, getting most of the money from the grassroots, not attacking other people just their positions. [/quote]

Respectfully, a clueless post. Ron Paul is an afterthought for 2012. The Tea Party didn’t materially reference him throughout 2008-10, and they aren’t interested in him.

He was a weak candidate in 2008 (obviously) and he would be an even weaked one in 2012.[/quote]

Agreed. Terrible candidate but he knows how to line his pockets. I wonder what happened to his 2008 warchest. [/quote]

As I mentioned, it’s running Campaign For Liberty, you can check them out. http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Seriously does Ron Paul seem like the type of guy who is going to go blow millions on hookers and exotic vacations and shit? Come on Man.

V

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
<<< Paul will be 77 in 2012. No one will vote for a 77-year old candidate. >>>[/quote]
I tried… hard… to make this point (his age) during the campaign and then again several months ago, but to no avail. That alone is a mortal campaign killer.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
<<< Paul will be 77 in 2012. No one will vote for a 77-year old candidate. >>>[/quote]
I tried… hard… to make this point (his age) during the campaign and then again several months ago, but to no avail. That alone is a mortal campaign killer.[/quote]

Didn’t seem to stop republicans with Bob Dole. And it was the Newt party that compromised with Clinton that got him re-elected.

So where Republicans retarded for putting up Bob Dole for election, or is it the case that now that Ron Paul’s economic predictions are coming true this is kind of a last ditch effort to try and shut up Ron Paul supporters?

[quote]John S. wrote:

So where Republicans retarded for putting up Bob Dole for election…[/quote]

No, because although Dole was quite old, he was sane. That mitigates.

EDIT" and, of course, four years younger than 77 when he ran.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

So where Republicans retarded for putting up Bob Dole for election…[/quote]

No, because although Dole was quite old, he was sane. That mitigates.
[/quote]

How is a guy who called the economic crisis not sane?

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I’m not saying he will make another run, but If Ron Paul DOES run a primary bid, you know for a fact his run will be even stronger than he previous primary run. The Tea Party Can’t Not Support him, and he is very good in debates. He IS the type of politician we all say we like, running clean campaigns, getting most of the money from the grassroots, not attacking other people just their positions. [/quote]

Respectfully, a clueless post. Ron Paul is an afterthought for 2012. The Tea Party didn’t materially reference him throughout 2008-10, and they aren’t interested in him.

He was a weak candidate in 2008 (obviously) and he would be an even weaked one in 2012.[/quote]

Agreed. Terrible candidate but he knows how to line his pockets. I wonder what happened to his 2008 warchest. [/quote]

As I mentioned, it’s running Campaign For Liberty, you can check them out. http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Seriously does Ron Paul seem like the type of guy who is going to go blow millions on hookers and exotic vacations and shit? Come on Man.

V[/quote]

Win.

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I’m not saying he will make another run, but If Ron Paul DOES run a primary bid, you know for a fact his run will be even stronger than he previous primary run. The Tea Party Can’t Not Support him, and he is very good in debates. He IS the type of politician we all say we like, running clean campaigns, getting most of the money from the grassroots, not attacking other people just their positions.

I hope he runs, If not, I need to see a Limited Government Republican run or I’m voting Libertarian again.

V[/quote]

Paul will never be elected President of the United States. He is not a marketable commodity ina a media and Internet savvy age. Perhaps at the bottom of the ticket, but even then he does not have what it takes to help at that level. How about a nice cabinet appointment for him? Maybe I can do something there, call me we’ll have lunch.
[/quote]

I never said he would be, All I really said was IF he decides to run, he is going to be a major handful in the GOP primary. He has a LOT more backers, He cannot be kept out of debates or the Tea Party will flip thier wigs and they are too big of a movement for the GOP to ignore right now. Personally, I think your arrogance for “knowing” he will never be president is a tad bit sad. If you have such an ability to know the future, I’d expect you to have predicted the winner of all of the past elections. Should I go back and see if you KNEW McCain would win?

V[/quote]

Yeah go check it out - I knew Obama would win (Did anyone think that a white haired old man was going to beat Obama? Seriously? MEDIA-MEDIA-MEDIA). I think anyone who knows anything about politics and the media could see that McCain was absolutely NOT going to win. Even the McCain people were aware that it was an uphill fight. People were sick of GW and the entire republican party was going to be punished for it, and they were. McCain’s hail mary play picking Palin as the VP backfired badly for several reasons. He would have gone with a more known entity if he thought he had a chance to win. How many electoral votes does Alaska have? That would be “3”. Normally what does a Presidential candidate look for in a VP?

In no particular order:

1-National Prominence or stature (Colin Powell is a good example- Not associated with any state but is well known and respected)

2-A balancing of the ticket. If the Presidential candidate is from New York for example he may choose a VP from the Southern or Western region.

3-Someone who can gain the ticket those very important electoral votes. As you (and Al Gore) know it’s not about the popular vote, electoral votes are all that matter.

Let’s go back to Jimmy Carter as an example of someone who balanced out his ticket very nicely. He chose Walter Mondale because Mondale was the Senator from Minnesota where 10 electoral votes could be had. Carter being from (Gov) Georgia had 15 electoral votes. That’s 25 going into the race. A nice start.

Ronald Reagan is another good example of someone who had a leg up BEFORE the race began. He was a former two term Governor of the biggest electoral bonanza of them all California with 55 electoral votes. He then chose George Bush (Sr.) to balance the ticket. They called Bush “Mr. resume” as he had more experience in government than just about anyone at the time. He was a Congressman, Ambassador, envoy to China, head of the CIA, and also at one time republican national committee head. So Bush had a high national stature and also as Congressman in a district in Texas was seen very much as a Texan. Texas has 34 electoral votes. Add that to California’s 55 and you begin with 89 electoral votes in your column.

There are other good examples of Presidential candidates balancing their tickets. When I saw McCains choice I knew that he knew that the only way he was going to win was if this dramatic off the charts play worked. As we all know, it didn’t. On a side note a better choice would have been US Senator Kay Baily Hutchison from Texas. Then he would have had a lock on the 34 electoral votes in Texas plus the effect of choosing a woman as a running mate.

Remember all the times you called me old on this here forum sonny? LOL well I’ve not squandered my time on this earth. I have a bit of experience running some campaigns both locally and state wide. But, big deal I can still be wrong, anyone can. Sorry though I don’t see paul as the next President and would put his odds just above Mickey Mouse and below Donald Duck’s. Okay, that was harsh but you can take a joke we both know that.

Here’s why Paul can’t win:

1-Too old, he’ll be 77 years old by the time the election rolls around. The oldest man to get elected to the office of President was Ronald Reagan and he was only 68 (and a good looking fairly young 68 who had serious speaking and acting skills-Remember? media-media-media). Granted someone older could certainly get elected. But, that person will not look like Ron Paul.

2-Check the last time a sitting Congressman was elected to the Presidency. Never mind I’ll do it for you. James Garfield 1876. There’s a reson for that. They represent a very small area compared to a senator or Governor. Who gets elected President? Governors are the first choice. Look around for a good GOP Governor, someone like Chris Christie or Tim Pawlenty. They have the fresh face that we need to beat Obama.

3-Ron Paul is basically a fringe sort of candidate. That means that while those like you think he’s the answer to the problem others have never heard of him and when they finally do they are not impressed. They don’t see what you see in the man. They see a tired looking old guy spoutin off about big government not very centrist sounding is he?

4-He has run before and has had very poor results. Granted sometimes it takes a while for people to open their arms to a candidate, but with Paul that’s not the case. I think he’s run for President 4 or 5 times. It all began back in 1988, that I remember pretty well. The people don’t want him he does not have what it takes to capture the hearts of the American voter.

Sorry man, I think he’s a very well intended guy with some good ideas about small government. But it’s time for him to pass the torch to someone who can represent those ideas on the national stage, Paul can’t do it.

Anyway…

there are a bunch of clowns running around within the GOP (I’ve spoken with a few of them) thinking that they’ve got this Obama fellow beaten in 12’ already. But I don’t call that arrogant I call it ignorant. Obama is an incredible political package. He is articulate, charismatic, intelligent and he has one very important thing going for him that no one else has; he is currently the President of the United States. As we have seen in the past Presidents can do all sorts of things to push the game in their favor. Obama will pull out all stops to win a second term. Throw in an adoring national press and a whole lot of loot and this guy will be formidable for anyone. Sorry am I being arrogant again? I don’t mean to be, it seems obvious doesn’t it?

I can assure you it will take a dynamic candidate (probably a Governor or former Governor) to beat that guy. Even if Paul were fortunate enough to be the republican nominee WHICH HE WON’T BE he’d never beat Obama. You can call it arrogance as I said, but in all seriousness anyone who feels that Paul actually has a chance to beat Obama is politically ignorant.

Great summary, Zeb.

You forgot the most “interesting” political pairing in modern history: Kennedy/Johnson. (Oh…and unofficially, Sam Giancana, as the “shadow” running mate! :)–!

Mufasa

[quote]John S. wrote:

How is a guy who called the economic crisis not sane? [/quote]

Lots of people called the economic crisis. Calling the economic crisis doesn’t mitigate rampant conspiracy theories, backwards thinking and trafficking in racism to score big paleolibertarian points.

Anyone in that vein is either outrightly wacko or too dumb to be trusted with anything important.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

So where Republicans retarded for putting up Bob Dole for election…[/quote]

No, because although Dole was quite old, he was sane. That mitigates.

EDIT" and, of course, four years younger than 77 when he ran.
[/quote]Dole had an incredibly boring campaign though and while I believe he was decent presidential material overall he was a monumentally stupid choice for the GOP to run against slick Willy.

BTW, I did answer you a couple days ago on that other discussion. I have feeling you didn’t see.