T Nation

Meltdown in the Eurozone - Part 2

Hello everyone,

So an update on the Eurozone situation, 1st time tragic, 2nd time farcical

The problem countries (Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy, and of course, Greece) aren’t improving. Unemployment high (youth unemployment in Spain is 50% - officially), GDP stagnant or shrinking. Even the ‘good’ countries (Germany, Netherlands) are struggling or slipping back into recession. Even countries outside the Eurozone (UK) are back in recession.

Elections over the weekend were a rejection of traditional political parties. Hollande was elected as French President, while Marie Le Pen got 20% of the vote (UMP, Sarkozy (former president’s party) got 27% in the first round in comparison. Germany’s ruling coalition were trounced in regional elections, as were the British Conservative and LIberal Democrat Parties.

In Greece, the left-wing party Syriza is trying to form a government. It rejects the terms of the second 130 billion euro bailout and wants to start again. Markets predictably, haywire.

No end in sight. Look on ye mighty and despair.

[quote]Bambi wrote:
Hello everyone,

So an update on the Eurozone situation, 1st time tragic, 2nd time farcical

The problem countries (Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy, and of course, Greece) aren’t improving. Unemployment high (youth unemployment in Spain is 50% - officially), GDP stagnant or shrinking. Even the ‘good’ countries (Germany, Netherlands) are struggling or slipping back into recession. Even countries outside the Eurozone (UK) are back in recession.

Elections over the weekend were a rejection of traditional political parties. Hollande was elected as French President, while Marie Le Pen got 20% of the vote (UMP, Sarkozy (former president’s party) got 27% in the first round in comparison. Germany’s ruling coalition were trounced in regional elections, as were the British Conservative and LIberal Democrat Parties.

In Greece, the left-wing party Syriza is trying to form a government. It rejects the terms of the second 130 billion euro bailout and wants to start again. Markets predictably, haywire.

No end in sight. Look on ye mighty and despair.[/quote]

If Obama is reelected I foresee something akin to this happening in the US. The man is clueless when it comes to the economy. All politics aside why anyone would want to “rehire” him at a job that he’s proven that he cannot handle is totally beyond me.

At least Romney has proven that he understands the economy by making himself a couple of hundred million. Let’s give the job to him for four years if he mucks it up as bad as Obama we can fire him in 2016.

We have to wake up because The US is next in line to fail!

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
Hello everyone,

So an update on the Eurozone situation, 1st time tragic, 2nd time farcical

The problem countries (Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy, and of course, Greece) aren’t improving. Unemployment high (youth unemployment in Spain is 50% - officially), GDP stagnant or shrinking. Even the ‘good’ countries (Germany, Netherlands) are struggling or slipping back into recession. Even countries outside the Eurozone (UK) are back in recession.

Elections over the weekend were a rejection of traditional political parties. Hollande was elected as French President, while Marie Le Pen got 20% of the vote (UMP, Sarkozy (former president’s party) got 27% in the first round in comparison. Germany’s ruling coalition were trounced in regional elections, as were the British Conservative and LIberal Democrat Parties.

In Greece, the left-wing party Syriza is trying to form a government. It rejects the terms of the second 130 billion euro bailout and wants to start again. Markets predictably, haywire.

No end in sight. Look on ye mighty and despair.[/quote]

If Obama is reelected I foresee something akin to this happening in the US. The man is clueless when it comes to the economy. All politics aside why anyone would want to “rehire” him at a job that he’s proven that he cannot handle is totally beyond me.

At least Romney has proven that he understands the economy by making himself a couple of hundred million. Let’s give the job to him for four years if he mucks it up as bad as Obama we can fire him in 2016.

We have to wake up because The US is next in line to fail![/quote]

I think the conditions in the Eurozone are different because of the straitjacker imposed by the Euro. Italy and Spain would just devalue their currency if conditions got problematic, they cannot do that any more. What is sauce for Germany, who is benefittin immensely its exports, is not sauce for the Mediterranean countries. This means their economies are seriously uncompetitive, their credit ratings are junk and people doubt their ability to repay their debt. This is in spite of Spain having run a relatively balanced budget with little of the banking fiasco seen in Britain or the USA. Look at how low US bonds are in comparison to many Eurozone countries, with the exception of Germany and the UK.

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
Hello everyone,

So an update on the Eurozone situation, 1st time tragic, 2nd time farcical

The problem countries (Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy, and of course, Greece) aren’t improving. Unemployment high (youth unemployment in Spain is 50% - officially), GDP stagnant or shrinking. Even the ‘good’ countries (Germany, Netherlands) are struggling or slipping back into recession. Even countries outside the Eurozone (UK) are back in recession.

Elections over the weekend were a rejection of traditional political parties. Hollande was elected as French President, while Marie Le Pen got 20% of the vote (UMP, Sarkozy (former president’s party) got 27% in the first round in comparison. Germany’s ruling coalition were trounced in regional elections, as were the British Conservative and LIberal Democrat Parties.

In Greece, the left-wing party Syriza is trying to form a government. It rejects the terms of the second 130 billion euro bailout and wants to start again. Markets predictably, haywire.

No end in sight. Look on ye mighty and despair.[/quote]

If Obama is reelected I foresee something akin to this happening in the US. The man is clueless when it comes to the economy. All politics aside why anyone would want to “rehire” him at a job that he’s proven that he cannot handle is totally beyond me.

At least Romney has proven that he understands the economy by making himself a couple of hundred million. Let’s give the job to him for four years if he mucks it up as bad as Obama we can fire him in 2016.

We have to wake up because The US is next in line to fail![/quote]

I think the conditions in the Eurozone are different because of the straitjacker imposed by the Euro. Italy and Spain would just devalue their currency if conditions got problematic, they cannot do that any more. What is sauce for Germany, who is benefittin immensely its exports, is not sauce for the Mediterranean countries. This means their economies are seriously uncompetitive, their credit ratings are junk and people doubt their ability to repay their debt. This is in spite of Spain having run a relatively balanced budget with little of the banking fiasco seen in Britain or the USA. Look at how low US bonds are in comparison to many Eurozone countries, with the exception of Germany and the UK.
[/quote]

Sure it’s a different scenario no arguemnt here. But with 16 trillion in debt, a devalued dollar, those looking for work and those who have given up looking are at their highest in many years, And on top of that there are more people on food stamps than ever before. Those who are knocking Romney should be looking at the guy who has been in charge for the last four years and dishing out some serious blame. I gurarantee that the US is headed for serious trouble if Obama is reelected!

[quote]Bambi wrote:

In Greece, the left-wing party Syriza is trying to form a government. It rejects the terms of the second 130 billion euro bailout and wants to start again. Markets predictably, haywire.

[/quote]

You forgot about the Nazis. 21 Nazis elected to office in Greece. Yes, Europe is doing great. Just like in the 1920’s. Communists and Nazis.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

If Obama is reelected I foresee something akin to this happening in the US.

[/quote]

You never know…

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

In Greece, the left-wing party Syriza is trying to form a government. It rejects the terms of the second 130 billion euro bailout and wants to start again. Markets predictably, haywire.

[/quote]

You forgot about the Nazis. 21 Nazis elected to office in Greece. Yes, Europe is doing great. Just like in the 1920’s. Communists and Nazis.[/quote]

Yes chrysi augi (Golden Dawn) who vandalised a Holocaust memorial in the Pelopennese calling for a new Holocaust (considering 250,000 greeks in Athens alone starved in 1941-42 due to Nazi policies you wonder why). I have heard people voted for them as a joke vote, but even so…

One of the best pieces of financial advise I ever got was this:

‘Money is made an every economic condition’ and ‘Money is a renewable resource’

So this question is…How do we best profit from this condition?

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

In Greece, the left-wing party Syriza is trying to form a government. It rejects the terms of the second 130 billion euro bailout and wants to start again. Markets predictably, haywire.

[/quote]

You forgot about the Nazis. 21 Nazis elected to office in Greece. Yes, Europe is doing great. Just like in the 1920’s. Communists and Nazis.[/quote]

Yes chrysi augi (Golden Dawn) who vandalised a Holocaust memorial in the Pelopennese calling for a new Holocaust (considering 250,000 greeks in Athens alone starved in 1941-42 due to Nazi policies you wonder why). I have heard people voted for them as a joke vote, but even so…[/quote]

Greece borders Turkey and the Turks have refused to stop their fellow muslims from crossing Turkey into Europe. Plus they are getting invaded by boatloads from Africa. Greece is a poor country that can’t support their own and they can’t afford to support the influx of people who want to destroy their culture.

One would have to be blind and ignorant to not see or understand that the socialists are not innocent when it comes to matters of race and ethnicity. The left use race as a weapon for political ends because they can use it to create division. It’s the old Roman strategy of divide and conquer. Also thanks to the internet the Greeks can read the news from elsewhere in Europe and see what is being done to the rest of the continent.

Under such circumstances is it really any wonder that politics in Europe are starting to align along ethnic or nationalist lines?

Additionally the socialists themselves will encourage nationalism when it suits their ends. For example David Cameron is pushing for a referendum for Scotland to vote to break away from the United Kingdom and become a separate country. It suits their ends to see Britain broken up because that way if they did choose to leave the EU it would be England alone. Another example would be when they broke up Czechoslovakia into two smaller countries.

On the other hand they aren’t encouraging Alsace Lorraine to Vichy to separate from France or Bavaria and East Germany to separate from Germany. Although East Germany, Vichy and Bavaria have been separate countries much more recently than Scotland. Because it doesn’t suit their purpose to break them up into smaller countries.

“Greece is a poor country that can’t support their own and they can’t afford to support the influx of people who want to destroy their culture.”

Nobody is trying to deliberately destroy the Greek culture, people don’t up and leave to another country to ruin a culture you idiot!

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
Hello everyone,

So an update on the Eurozone situation, 1st time tragic, 2nd time farcical

The problem countries (Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy, and of course, Greece) aren’t improving. Unemployment high (youth unemployment in Spain is 50% - officially), GDP stagnant or shrinking. Even the ‘good’ countries (Germany, Netherlands) are struggling or slipping back into recession. Even countries outside the Eurozone (UK) are back in recession.

Elections over the weekend were a rejection of traditional political parties. Hollande was elected as French President, while Marie Le Pen got 20% of the vote (UMP, Sarkozy (former president’s party) got 27% in the first round in comparison. Germany’s ruling coalition were trounced in regional elections, as were the British Conservative and LIberal Democrat Parties.

In Greece, the left-wing party Syriza is trying to form a government. It rejects the terms of the second 130 billion euro bailout and wants to start again. Markets predictably, haywire.

No end in sight. Look on ye mighty and despair.[/quote]

If Obama is reelected I foresee something akin to this happening in the US. The man is clueless when it comes to the economy. All politics aside why anyone would want to “rehire” him at a job that he’s proven that he cannot handle is totally beyond me.

[/quote]

Fuckin’ spot on, brother! Political correctness — people thought how cool it would be to elect a black man without regard for ability or experience — has doomed us, just when we needed a REAL leader, not some fucking corn dog salesman oughta be.

The two fucking scum hippies in the pic helped out, both being fucking dick lickers.

Hello everyone, long time lurker, first time poster. So is that how the old EU is viewed in the USA, it’s really a bit more complex than that as at least 2 big crisis got mixed together those past 5 years (one could say 30 years but meh, don’t feel like going that far back :p) and produced what you are now seeing. I could probably explain in details but then again my english is far from perfect being the frenchy that i am, so i will just hold on until necessary!

You have to keep in mind that the “problematic” countries are in fact the whole damned EU, every economy here in europe is extremely different and in deep, deep trouble : for exemple, in spain you have a speculative bubble in the construction industry. the majority of the spain economy was based on this and helped by the EU subventions, it’s now totally dead, you have entire ghost town as a result of that. The “debt” in spain doesn’t seem that bad, but it’s because spain is a decentralized state and the majority of the debt is held by the province or “states”.
On the contrary, italy seems to have a much much bigger debt, but they have a solid industry and are managing to keep a positive exportation balance, wich means Italy will be alot more robust than spain in the medium to long term.

Greece just fucked EU over by cheating to enter and are getting abused by the worst mafia I ever saw at the top level of their gvnmt. On the other hand, they were let in, i won’t believe no one knew they cheated their way in. The nazi representative in greece never ever went above 0.8% iirc, so yeah, this IS a kind of protestation / joke vote. Population is in recession since 5 years with massive salarial cut everywhere.

As for the party(sp?) in france, there is a misconception, just see Hollande (our new president) as the Obama equal and Sarkozy / lepen as a Mitt. R. equ.

Hopefully this was somewhat understandable, i’m not used to debating in english, so feel free to correct any mistake !

[quote]Mourn wrote:
Hello everyone, long time lurker, first time poster. So is that how the old EU is viewed in the USA, it’s really a bit more complex than that as at least 2 big crisis got mixed together those past 5 years (one could say 30 years but meh, don’t feel like going that far back :p) and produced what you are now seeing. I could probably explain in details but then again my english is far from perfect being the frenchy that i am, so i will just hold on until necessary!

You have to keep in mind that the “problematic” countries are in fact the whole damned EU, every economy here in europe is extremely different and in deep, deep trouble : for exemple, in spain you have a speculative bubble in the construction industry. the majority of the spain economy was based on this and helped by the EU subventions, it’s now totally dead, you have entire ghost town as a result of that. The “debt” in spain doesn’t seem that bad, but it’s because spain is a decentralized state and the majority of the debt is held by the province or “states”.
On the contrary, italy seems to have a much much bigger debt, but they have a solid industry and are managing to keep a positive exportation balance, wich means Italy will be alot more robust than spain in the medium to long term.

Greece just fucked EU over by cheating to enter and are getting abused by the worst mafia I ever saw at the top level of their gvnmt. On the other hand, they were let in, i won’t believe no one knew they cheated their way in. The nazi representative in greece never ever went above 0.8% iirc, so yeah, this IS a kind of protestation / joke vote. Population is in recession since 5 years with massive salarial cut everywhere.

As for the party(sp?) in france, there is a misconception, just see Hollande (our new president) as the Obama equal and Sarkozy / lepen as a Mitt. R. equ.

Hopefully this was somewhat understandable, i’m not used to debating in english, so feel free to correct any mistake !
[/quote]

Spain initially did well from joining the EU because it provided low wages and decent weather so many companies relocated their manufacturing there. But when the eastern bloc countries joined the EU they had a wage structure that was even lower than Spain so another mass relocation took place. So Spain had been on a down hill slide for years before the housing bubble burst.

The way the Euro was cobbled together it was painfully obvious that countries were being brought in without having sound fundamentals. Even with some cooking of the books and creative accounting Italy and Greece were brought in just barely meeting the requirements. Then once they were in they were let off the hook to go back to their old bad behavior. The only reason they were brought in was because their soft economies help keep the Euro from being driven up by the Germans.

France is an uncompetitive basket case that is so deep in denial it cannot deal with the reality of it’s situation. Thanks to globalization, French labor is competing in a global market place. A thirty five hour work week at high wages cannot compete against slave labor in China. Socialist employment rules make it impossible to fire incompetent employees. So it is extremely difficult to get hired into even an entry level position without connections. Which exacerbates youth unemployment. As if things weren’t bad enough now Hollande wants to impose a seventy five percent income tax on anyone making over a million euros a year. It’s already causing an exodus of high earners from France.

The only parties that aren’t owned by the huge corporations are the nationalist parties. People are finally waking up to the reality that none of the mainstream parties will do what the people want them to do.

[quote]Mourn wrote:
Hello everyone, long time lurker, first time poster. So is that how the old EU is viewed in the USA, it’s really a bit more complex than that as at least 2 big crisis got mixed together those past 5 years (one could say 30 years but meh, don’t feel like going that far back :p) and produced what you are now seeing. I could probably explain in details but then again my english is far from perfect being the frenchy that i am, so i will just hold on until necessary!

You have to keep in mind that the “problematic” countries are in fact the whole damned EU, every economy here in europe is extremely different and in deep, deep trouble : for exemple, in spain you have a speculative bubble in the construction industry. the majority of the spain economy was based on this and helped by the EU subventions, it’s now totally dead, you have entire ghost town as a result of that. The “debt” in spain doesn’t seem that bad, but it’s because spain is a decentralized state and the majority of the debt is held by the province or “states”.
On the contrary, italy seems to have a much much bigger debt, but they have a solid industry and are managing to keep a positive exportation balance, wich means Italy will be alot more robust than spain in the medium to long term.

Greece just fucked EU over by cheating to enter and are getting abused by the worst mafia I ever saw at the top level of their gvnmt. On the other hand, they were let in, i won’t believe no one knew they cheated their way in. The nazi representative in greece never ever went above 0.8% iirc, so yeah, this IS a kind of protestation / joke vote. Population is in recession since 5 years with massive salarial cut everywhere.

As for the party(sp?) in france, there is a misconception, just see Hollande (our new president) as the Obama equal and Sarkozy / lepen as a Mitt. R. equ.

Hopefully this was somewhat understandable, i’m not used to debating in english, so feel free to correct any mistake !
[/quote]

Your English is better than a lot of American’s English. But if I’m going to nitpit, it’s ‘salary cuts everywhere’ as opposed to ‘salarial cut everywhere’.