Would a P+C meal 3 hours pre workout blunt the utility of Surge Workout Fuel taken pre workout?
Breakfast @ 1000
Surge @ 100
Train @ 115
For the last few weeks I’ve been testing 10rm’s & practicing cadences to prepare myself to run the Extreme HIT program.
I noticed that I’ve had better sessions with a P+C breakfast and a training session without Surge than I did having a P+F and then Surge pre workout, ergo my question above.
I have not tried P+C with Surge taken 3 hours later, but wanted to perhaps glean more information on how others have used the Surge protocol, and perhaps more information on the formula in general.
Whatever you do, make sure the carbs aren’t
You’d be totally fine. In fact, you’ll probably have a better workout/pump.
I just wouldn’t eat a big, solid meal and then down Surge Workout Fuel like 20 minutes later. The solid meal would slow digestion at that point, but after three hours I wouldn’t sweat it at all.
@FlatsFarmer Lol. Only Kevin Nash approved carbs for me. Don’t turn your back on the Wolfpac.
@SBT Right on, appreciate it. I’m gonna stick with that.
I’ve noticed people seeing great results with 1 scoop of Surge, per the recommendation on the package.
I am, however, wondering if the intense nature of Darden’s 30-10-30 would warrant more; perhaps what he recommends in his newest program with the Surge Challenge protocol (forget what the program is called):
1 scoop pre, 1 scoop during/after, 1 scoop in the evening.
I am also considering a scoop of whey post workout, and 1 or 2 Surge on off days as well, for the duration of the 5 weeks.
I know that more is not always better. If y’all have experience with using Surge I’d appreciate any opinion or advice.
So far my experience with 30-10-30 (in years past and my current testing period) has shown that it requires every bit of recovery resource available.
Now that I’m thinking about it, Darden does use 4 servings of Plazma on training days and 4 servings of Mag-10 on rest days. I believe I will use 2-3 sc of Surge per day then.
It was called the Surge Challenge. Now, it’s M3. It has been revised a bit from the beginning–if you think 30-10-30 is demanding, you should try it.
During the Original Challenge, Biotest gave us enough Surge for three servings on workout days and one on off days. It worked, and well, but ended up being a lot of fluid and a lot of calories.
I now use 1.5 servings only on workout days. For me, it’s just the right amount.
If you don’t mind me asking, what does the rest of your protocol look like, nutrition and supplementation wise?
Do you agree with the idea of a scoop of whey post training, after your last bit of Surge, to take advantage of MPS with a quick source of protein, before eating a solid meal?
I’ve been reading a lot of older comments in the forums from @mertdawg on protein and insulin, wonder if he wouldn’t mind chiming in?
This wasn’t to me, but I find it hard to go wrong with 1 scoop of Surge Workout Fuel intra and 2 scoops of Metabolic Drive post. I could screw up the rest of my day (and give my best effort to do so) and still feel like I Pareto Principled my way to success.
@TrainForPain great post man, thanks.
Ask away, knowing I’m hardly an expert.
I’ve been running CT’s Metcon for Muscle. I mix 1.5 scoops of Surge and drink half before lifting, finishing the remaining half during/after. I’ll also usually have caffeine and Tyrosine.
I’ll walk 10-15 min.
Then I’ll eat some carbs and Metabolic Drive (like oats with a scoop MD stirred in) with glycine.
More carbs on workout days, less on days off.
I don’t use Metabolic Drive much any more. The reason is that I have sensitivity to casein polypeptides, and probably whole whey polypeptides too. I can eat milk protein OK if it is fermented and lactose free, like lactose free yoghurt, and cheese.
As a result, I only use two base proteins other than food. 1) Hydrolyzed casein like what is in Plazma and Mag-10 and pepto-pro, and HYDROLYZED Whey. The hydrolyzed forms are predigested so there are not large protein molecules that can elicit a sensitivity like response. The response I have is similar to an asthmatic response-shortness of breath, sinusitis, mucous generation, sleep disturbances, headaches and joint pain.
Even Hydrolyzed Casein is not as fast at bumping up protein synthesis as Whey, and the reason is almost certainly because of a somewhat lower leucine content. I will either take hydrolyzed casein from one of the 3 sources I mentioned, Mag-10, Plazma or pepto-pro and assume 7.5% leucine, and then add leucine to bring the total leucine content up to between 4-5 grams. So if I get 20 grams of hydrolyzed casein, I assume 1.5 grams of Leucine, and will add 3 grams of leucine to it.
With Whey, I assume about 8.75% leucine and also bump it up a little.
Surge has 5 grams of leucine per serving so I will also add between .4-.8 servings o Surge to hydrolyzed casein because my workout drink is my first meal of the day. I don’t like to exceed 5 grams of leucine at one time because it doesn’t work better, and it may downregulate the response. I like Surge by itself if I have already eaten a high protein breakfast, or had a lot of protein for dinner the night before. Usually for my workout I have a Plazma, add 3 grams of Leucine and add 3 grams of beta-alanine.
Thanks for the input mertdawg.
If 5g leucine is the top end at one time, how long must pass before taking the appropriate dosage again? Would this mean that >1 scoop of Surge would be too much?
The protocol I had planned on toying with during my 30-10-30 run was:
*1 scoop 20 minutes pre challenge, taken all at once
*1 scoop half way through the session, so starting about 26-27 minutes after the first dose, and this dose would be sipped for the remainder of the challenge and maybe 5 minutes post, so about 10 minutes total on that scoop
*1-1.5 sc whey isolate or hydrolysed whey after that
All in all about 12-14 grams or so of leucine in about 40-45 minutes time frame. Solid meal about 60 minutes later. If I’m not mistaken, this is the protocol in Darden’s M3 (minus the whey), plus another scoop of Surge in the evening.