I mean not judging the effectiveness of a policeman or police department by how many tickets they give out or how many arrests they make…
Perhaps, judging instead the crime rate of the district and the police’s effectiveness in getting that number down.
Let’s take Chicago for instance. If they up the number of traffic tickets by 50% will that do anything to the murder rate in that town? Or if the number of petty arrests goes up 50% will that bring the murder rate down?
Tragic Irony?
The original Progressives came in and tried to make local governments, including police departments, more professional.
Part of that “professionalism” is the evaluation process. Like watchdog mentioned, tickets are part of the evaluation.
Like a viscious cycle.
People can make any kind of conjecture they want, the data is what it is…What I posted in the OP is what I am getting at. Taking an honest look, not picking sides. There is evidence for policing by the numbers. That doesn’t make a policeman bad or good, it means there is a systemic problem that needs to be addressed. But that’s not the only problem that needs to be addressed. There are things that need to be looked at, like the proportion of crime to arrest rates and kinds of arrests.
The police exist to protect and serve. They need to also exist in an environment where they are pressured to make an arrest even when one is not warranted. Systemic issues need to be addressed.
Communities need to take responsibility for their actions. They need to stop killing each other and blaming the problems on others while sitting on their asses. They need to stop enabling criminals and refusing to talk to police when a crime has taken place. Getting rid of the bad and enabling yourself is the only way to make any situation get better.
If the municipality is generating a lot of income, are judged on their performance based on that, or receive extra pay for writing a lot of tickets then the accusation is justified.
If you live in a high crime area and the police spend most of their time and energy on traffic and other minor violations and the crime rate is not being reduced, there’s a systemic problem with the way policing is being done in that area.
Part of the problem is that policing is so different from place to place. You have very good, well balanced police departments who work hard to do that right things. And all it takes is another department who is corrupt and problematic to ruin it for everybody.
New Orleans is a perfect example of the worst of the worst. It’s been one of the most corrupt police departments in the nation for 30 years, and nobody has done shit about it.
This is one of the most disturbing stories I have ever heard and it got no attention. I just don’t even know how.
The story goes that this guy, Victor White got into a fight at a convenience store and the police were called. The man was searched. On him they found a tiny amount of cocaine and a dime bag of pot. So after they searched him and found the drugs, the placed his hands behind his back and handcuffed him and then put him in the back of the police car.
The police car took the long way home back to the precinct and when they opened the door, Mr. White fell out of the car dead from a single gunshot to the chest.
The incident was ruled a suicide. That’s right, somehow a handcuffed guy, who was search by the police, handcuffed with his hands behind his back managed to produce a gun and shoot himself in the chest… And they did not discover he was dead until they got to the police station.
So the police searched this guy well enough to find two tiny bags of drugs and missed an entire gun?
The police reported White shot himself in the back, the coroner’s report says he was shot in the chest. [edit]
A guy who was handcuffed with his hands behind his back, shot himself in the chest?
The police did not realize he had done this until they got back to the precinct? They didn’t hear the gunshot?
I am a little suspicious about this case…
I am bumping this because it deserves a look…
It also deserves at least a Google search to follow up because the Obama DOJ investigated it and found NOTHING to prosecute. NOTHING.
I provided that article as well.
It still does not answer the discrepancies like, how they could fine little tiny packets of drugs, but miss an entire gun?
Or why the police reported he shot himself in the back but the gunshot was to the left chest?
How did he shoot himself in the chest with his hands handcuffed behind his back?
One would assume that the Obama DOJ would be looking for any reason they can to prosecute the policemen involved. Ask them. They investigated it and did nothing. You linked the article stating the DOJ was investigating, but not the one stating that they would not prosecute.
Here you go:
https://mgtvklfy.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/white_victor_investigation_final_12-08-15.pdf
It still does not answer the questions. It doesn’t explain, how if they searched the guy how they missed a whole gun? That is negligence, at least…
So we start out with the insinuation that the police murder this guy and cover it up and now after that is proven false we are going with negligence? Ok…
They also found no reason to prosecute hillary, where the rest of us would be in jail… So their conclusions do not always result in justice.
I am still with this insinuation. Louisiana police departments are and have been historically, notoriously corrupt. Not always a bad thing, we were able to make a couple of speeding tickets disappear with the exchange of a few dollars.
Pat, I’m really sorry for whatever negative contact that you had with the Police. WOW…it must have been horrible.
Did they anal cavity strip search you or something?
You are one big time anti-police spokesperson. I think there might be a spot for you in the BLM group. Have you applied yet?
No seriously you have to get over whatever issues you have with the cops my friend…they are there to serve and protect. But you will always find what you are looking for you have proven that if nothing else.
You completely missed, completely, the entire point of what I was saying.
My point is that there may be systemic problems in policing, but it’s not inherently racist. At least not disproportionately so to the population at large. My point, is that I have experienced both good and bad policing and I look white, so I can say I have had experience. And if I were black, I would be trained to say, “I had this bad encounter because I am black.” not for the million other reasons it could have been.
I am not saying all cops are bad. And you cannot say they are all good.
The only cop I know of personally, is getting investigated for domestic abuse.
If you are just going to take the tact that there are no problems then there is no way to progress the conversation. I am trying to deal with facts.
its too easy to become a cop, i have seen a couple good cops but many bad ones and some with superiority complex issues, what they need to do is retest everyone and make it harder to become a cop as well as raise in pay, cops are suppose to protect and serve not threaten and use unnecessary force, i can see why some might go insane, being a cop is definitely not easy many of us overlook this and don’t take into consideration that these guys are out there 24/7 dealing with drunk retards and other forms of scum on the daily, i have had very bad experiences with cops and some good ones, i have had a cop ask me if i was going to shoot him back of the head as he walked off to his car? mind you i do not look or have a criminal background or have any negative marks on record…yet why did he have the need to say that? some of these cops are insane literally.
I certainly agree with most of what you have written. As for a young black man feeling like the Police might be looking at him more so than a young white man we all have to remember that blacks commit about half of the murders in this country and they only comprise about 12% of the population. That is a fact. A very staggering fact.
I am not at all saying that they should be singled out for harassment- not at all. But no one can blame a police officer for being extra careful.
By the way I heard you were under the weather I hope your feeling better.
What do you base this on? What authority that has any national validity, has published a scientific study on “its too easy to be a cop?” I was an instructor in a major academy for two years, it was a 26 weeks of high intensity training , followed by 8 weeks of field training. The failure rate was around 30%, nothing easy about it.
So you "seen " a couple of good cops, but many "bad ones", where ? what were the bad cops doing? Did you call the FBI and report what you saw? You know, the Feebies get a hard on going after cops, did you call Internal Affairs? Let me guess, no, you did not
"Retest everyone"–What kind test? Do you have to pass a national “test” to keep your job? Who pays? the taxpayer? Who makes up this test? Is it for all or broke down along race lines? Better know, because there has been plenty of federal law suits based on police testing and racial lines.
'Cops are supposed to protect and serve, not threaten and use unnecessary force": Here is a wake up call for you: cops inforce the states laws, they dont “serve”, if they did they could work at Mcdonalds. keeping the filth of society under control is serving enough. You are correct, using unnecessary force is a felony, so if you saw it, report it, you only use the force necessary to excerise a legal arrest. Let me give you another piece of advise: In 99% of the street situations, the perpetrators actions causes the officers reactions. You have seen unnecessary force used? Did you report it?
You have no idea about what you have to deal with. "I have had very bad experiences" : What experiences?, were you beaten? shot? arrested without probale cause? what? did you go to Internal Affairs? DOJ? the press? the press loves nothing better than a good cop smear. So what did you do?[quote=“cryptonite, post:96, topic:220613”]
"have had a cop ask me if i was going to shoot him back of the head as he walked off to his car? mind you i do not look or have a criminal background or have any negative marks on record…yet why did he have the need to say that? some of these cops are insane literally.
[/quote]
I have no idea why he said that, I was not there. Did you make a complaint? Call his Sergeant? There is no such thing as “negative marks on record” unless, you have been to trial, given a deposition, or been arrested and threaten to kill the president. I have seen, read, and been involved with hundreds of arrests and unless the Secret Service has you on file or you are on the terrorist hit list, then the NCIC report will just list your criminal record.
What training do to you base that comment on? Are you a clinical psychologist? Curious, because I was once on a panel that evaluated an officer’s mental fitness for duty, so, I have a working knowledge of that field.
You have to right to post you opinions on law enforcement, however, I find you comments to be typical of the publics knowledge on policing, which is basically nothing.
If you were in a room containing a cardiologist, diplomat, CPA, astrophysicist, and a cop, you would probably not tell the first four how to do there job, but, the cop, you would walk right up and declare loudly how he/she could do the job better, because, you see, every member of the “public” is a fucking expert on policing. You dont believe it , just ask them, they always know how to do things better.
here is what I would do, since it is too easy to become a cop, go now, apply, put on the uniform, get on the street before it gets too hard and make a difference, lets hope you dont become too crazy dealing with shit, because, God knows, there is no money and no respect.
I wonder how bad these cops were?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/14/us/police-officers-fatal-shooting-line-duty-nationwide/index.html
A well written great response.
Essentially, unless you have been there most people just don’t get what a police officer must go through in training as well as each and every day when they put their lives on the line.
But I would expect most on this thread to be savvy enough to disregard the left wing media hype…but sadly some are not