Not too much (anything you cannot recover from is not good), but also depends on overall lifestyle as the article suggests. For example, If I am eating a gallon of ice cream a day but doing plenty of cardio, that is not going to overcome the potential negatives of diet.
No one here is pushing for lifelong SPORTS endurance activity.
I bet a lifelong SPORTS Weight lifting activity report would not be favorable either.
I’ll stop here. Just another straw man HiT argument brewing. No thanks!
Atp…no HIT straw man argument from me…
Did you read the title of the original post?
Sounds like a strawman argument for cardio and you seem to fail to recognize that proper strength training (the jones way) is cardio
In your dreams!
Champion endurance sports athletes all use endurance activities for their main training modalities.
Not surprisingly, not one champion endurance athlete has ever used HiT circuit weight training as a sole training modality.
Nautilus machines arranged in a circuit do not illicit the same cardiovascular conditioning effects as mainstream cardiovascular activities.
This has been well documented!
Keep believing your own lies
West Point Study
In your previous reply didnt you write “ So what!
No one here is pushing for lifelong SPORTS endurance activity.”?
Now you are pushing champion sports endurance athletes and their cardio activity.
Looks like some pushing, once again. What is next, Valsalva, titin, or left ventricle?
Good point Arms Afire…
I’m afraid that he’s got you on that one atp.
You can’t state that no one is pushing for life long sports endurance activity…THEN use life long champion endurance athletes as an example for your next point…
Atp…IF you HAD read the title of the original post you would have seen that I said that cardio is required…just not too much.
In the study they split the subjects into 3 groups. Those that were lifelong endurance athletes, those that had become endurance athletes in their later years ( after age 30) and those that did cardio and other activity to more modest levels (3 hours or less per week).
It was the members of the lifelong group that showed the most disturbing signs in the markers measured, including the softer widowmaker arterial plaque AND the calcified version.
That is an interesting study. I’m not sure how to reconcile it with the 2021 Oxford study (which I can’t find now for some reason) that found after studying 90,000 people that there was no upper limit to the benefits of exercise. My recollection is that there were significantly diminishing returns after the three times the government recommended minimum amounts of weekly exercise.
No. HIT workouts have cardio benefits but are NOT the same as steady state activities for the types of positive adaptations that they induce. Those guru’s that put that info. out fail to realize it’s CV (cardio VASCULAR heart and arteries) not just cardio (heart).
and agree totally on the ‘too much of a good thing’ with cardio (or lifting, or minerals or vitamins or sleep, or water… etc etc.).
Do steady activities provide any health benefits that resistance training does not?
Short answer, Yes.
When people talk about CV benefits, usually abbreviated as “cardio”, that very abbreviation sends the conclusions in a wrong direction. CV stands for ‘Cardio-Vascular’, heart and blood vessels. Arterial health is probably more important as we age than the heart itself. Most of the issues people have with age and their heart, are due to the blood supply ‘to the heart’. When people only consider their heart rate during exercise, they are missing specific adaptations directed at the arterial systems.
Resistance training, regardless of the application (heavy or medium loads, high intensity or volume, slow reps or fast reps, etc etc) do provide many great health improvements. There is no question on that. The question that always comes up, is if there is any benefit to lower intensity steady state activities beyond those, or different than those, that occur with resistance training. There seems to be a complete false premise, driven by a few ‘training gurus’, that resistance training induces all the same ‘cardio-vascular’ benefits as steady state activities. What they are mostly missing, is cardiovascular includes the heart AND the vascular system. It’s not just about the heart rate level and/or the actual adaptations in the heart itself.
Resistance training with heavier loads and higher effort (50% and above), cause muscles to contract very hard, that contraction, during the rep occludes blood flow. When blood flow is occluded, back pressure builds up in the system, the body is trying to force blood into that muscle. This causes systematic blood pressure to rise very high for a short time during that rep. The studies below are to point out that the higher HR during a rep, are pushing adaptations to deal with high pressure and force, in the cardiovascular system.
Skeletal muscle tension, flow, pressure, and EMG during sustained isometric contractions in humans
In other cases MTP would reach as high as 240 mm Hg before clearance was zero. In the deeper parts of the muscles MTP during contraction was increased in relation to the more superficial parts. The means values for the % MVC that would stop MBF varied between 50 and 64% MVC for the investigated muscles.
Blood pressure changes during heavy-resistance exercise
Extremely high blood pressure elevations of up to 345/245 mmHg were observed during the lifts. Squatting caused the highest pressure rises and single-arm curls the lowest.
This back pressure is trying to expand the arteries, it’s akin to blowing up a balloon, the internal pressure stretches and expands the balloon. The same effect occurs in arteries and the high pressure forces them to ‘blow up’ and expand. That mechanical stretch tension stimulates arterial walls to thicken and stiffen so they won’t ‘blow out’ (again, like blowing up a balloon to the point that it pops). This effect has been seen and measured in humans. So we know it occurs, it’s actually seen, not theorized.
Resistance training in men is associated with increased arterial stiffness and blood pressure but does not adversely affect endothelial function as measured by arterial reactivity to the cold pressor test
Carotid arterial β-stiffness index, and systolic and mean arterial blood pressure were higher (7.7 ± 0.7 versus 6.0 ± 0.4 arbitrary units, 116 ± 2 versus 131 ± 4 mmHg and 86 ± 2 versus 95 ± 2 mmHg, respectively, all P < 0.05) in the resistance training group compared with control subjects.
Effect of 4 weeks of aerobic or resistance exercise training on arterial stiffness, blood flow and blood pressure in pre- and stage-1 hypertensives
Central PWV increased (P=0.0001) following RE (11±0.9–12.7±0.9 m s−1) but decreased after AE (12.1±0.8–11.1±0.8 m s−1). Peripheral PWV also increased (P=0.013) following RE (RE, pre 11.5±0.8 vs post 12.5±0.7 m s−1) and decreased after AE (AE, pre 12.6±0.8 vs post 11.6±0.7 m s−1).
From the above, we see, what logically fits. Adaptations in the body fit the S.A.I.D. principle (specific adaptations to imposed demands) . What, and how, something is stressed is what that system tries to adapt to. Stress the strength of an artery, it will strengthen via increased thickness and stiffness.
Now, if you instead stress the flow capacity, the arteries will enlarge in diameter to allow more blood flow. Not thicken, but enlarge in diameter.
Middle-aged endurance athletes exhibit lower cerebrovascular impedance than sedentary peers
Regular endurance exercise training favorably restores the deteriorated dampening function of the aorta and carotid arteries in older populations
Prolonged endurance training is associated with the improved cerebrovascular dampening function in middle-aged adults.
Muscular strength training is associated with low arterial compliance and high pulse pressure
Aerobic exercise training increases arterial compliance and reduces systolic blood pressure, but the effects of muscular strength training on arterial mechanical properties are unknown
(19 muscular strength-trained athletes)
These data indicate that both the proximal aorta and the leg arteries are stiffer in strength-trained individuals and contribute to a higher cardiac afterload.
Why is this important
As people age, the number one ‘heart’ issue isn’t even in the heart, it’s an issue in the artiers, and it’s known as atherosclerosis, which is the build up of plaque inside the artery wall, this narrows the artery, which reduces blood flow to the heart. When blood flow is too little to provide oxygen to that area of the heart muscle, the person experiences a ‘heart attack’ as that area of the heart muscle suffocates and dies. So increasing the internal size of the arteries would be a very good health benefit. Far and above any other benefits from any form of exercise.
Proof this occurs
Besides all the above info., we can look right at a group of people who do not use resistance training but do perform a lot of low intensity walking daily. The people of the Massai tribe perform a lot of low intensity activity. They walk a lot every day. Their activity is roughly almost twice that of even a highly active person and worlds above most very sedentary people.
The Maasai keep healthy despite a high-fat diet
Surprisingly, the measurements show that the good health of the Maasai is not due to intense physical activity all day long. It seems that moderate but constant physical activity eplains the health difference between them and Westerners.
“On average, the Maasai move 75 percent more than we do in the West,” says Christensen. “Our activity level is about 44 kJ/kg/d, while for Maasai women the figure is 75 kJ/kg/d and for Maasai men it is 78 kJ/kg/d.”
Key point: The Massai do get atherosclerosis, but haven’t been known to die of a heart attack, and they have it at the same level as Americans, but via autopsies, they see that the internal size of their arteries was so large, the plaque build up didn’t reduce blood flow enough to cause issues.
ATHEROSCLEROSIS IN THE MASAI
The hearts and aortae of 50 Masai men were collected at autopsy. These pastoral people are exceptionally active and fit and they consume diets of milk and meat. The intake of animal fat exceeds that of American men. Measurements of the aorta showed extensive atherosclerosis with lipid infiltration and fibrous changes but very few complicated lesions. The coronary arteries showed intimal thickening by atherosclerosis which equaled that of old U.S. men. The Masai vessels enlarge with age to more than compensate for this disease. It is speculated that the Masai are protected from their atherosclerosis by physical fitness which causes their coronary vessels to be capacious.
Can you alter the properties of your arteries via how you exercise?
Arterial properties of the carotid and femoral artery in endurance-trained and paraplegic subjects
changes in arterial pressure and blood flow initiate structural and functional arterial adaptations (15). The latter is associated with alterations in local wall shear stress, which has been shown to be one primary stimulus for vascular adaptations. Thus a chronic increase in arterial blood flow volume leads to an outward vascular remodeling (20)
So there it is, the medical and real life proof. It’s up to every individual how they use this info. but there it is, all laid out in order. It really seems evident that resistance exercise is great, but is only one of our two main attributes of fitness. Regular ‘movement’ (walking, sports, etc.) offsets and compliments our lifting adaptations for a fully balanced outcome. None of this though suggests we need to run for miles a day, in fact, there is some research showing (as anything for that matter) excess ‘cardio’ can lead to unwanted adaptations and adversely affect health. But regular activity, that stimulates higher free flowing blood circulation, is very positive for health attributes and actually does cause positive adaptations not seen from resistance exercise.
Whats the average lifespan of maasai people?
The one’s they checked for CV issues were ones that lived to be old, the average age of death was early 40’s due to other diseases. Some made it to be old, but many died very young from other diseases so the average ended up early 40’s. But the older ones had plaque in their arteries similar to westerners but their arteries were so large that they still have good blood flow.
Leading causes of death include pneumonia and diarrhoea for which two vaccines, pneumococcal and rotavirus, were introduced nationally in 2013.
The #1 cause of heart disease for most North Americans and Europeans is via fork and knife. Smoking is rapidly fading, genetics affects less that 5%. We eat our way to heart attacks via bad food and alcohol. Insulin resistance, high triglycerides = metabolic issues = heart disease.
Running? The biggest problem is hard core marathoning, which could cause AFIB. But look it up…hard core weight training can do the same thing. (References in PubMed, etc.)
There are always outliers who can eat crap, smoke and live long lives. For the rest of us, the #1 killer is heart disease via bad lifestyles.
The data/studies on the Masai are pretty scarce and incomplete. The first and most heavily cited was in 1964 by Dr George Mann in the Journal of Atherosclerosis Research documenting a lack of heart disease in Masai men. Nothing was studied to confirm their specific genetics, no long-term nutritional studies or confirmation of the meat/blood/milk diet. Dr. Mann autopsied 50 Masai men and found that they had extensive atherosclerosis. They had disease (coronary intimal thickening) on par with American men over 65 years of age. And, well over +85% of the men over 40 had severe damage in their aorta. But, no blockages were found by Mann.
One recent analysis of the published information noted that the Masai went through periods of fasting – little or no food – which has shown by extensive research can reverse heart disease through the autophagy mechanisms.
The very fact autophagy is optimized when mTOR and IGF-1 are at their lowest means there’s no growth in the arterial walls and healing can begin. (All cells produce mTOR and IGF-1 when stimulated.) Also, autophagy will also help with the reversal of heart hypertrophy (something weight training does to the heart muscle…not good. Just ask a cardiologist…).
So, are the periods of fasting and caloric restriction along with an active lifestyle what keeps the Masai alive? Clearly, their diet’s not something that supports longevity.
That was my suspicion
I think the main point though, was the activity was the factor for their larger arteries. That factor has been confirmed in current western medical observations (like I cited in that article).