Incline Bench

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
One question though: I just want to maximize the effectiveness of my bench press. So are you supposed to “shove your hands together” on the concentric as well as on the eccentric portion of the rep, OR would I be better off by only doing it on the eccentric? [/quote]

It really doesn’t matter. Technically, it might matter a tiny tiny bit… but it really doesn’t matter.

Right now, being able to bench more weight will matter far more than whether you’re pushing, pulling, twisting, squeezing, etc.

Oh alright, thanks very much

So that means the load is always more important than the extent to which the muscle gets shortened, if that makes sense?

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Oh alright, thanks very much

So that means the load is always more important than the extent to which the muscle gets shortened, if that makes sense?[/quote]

My thoughts on it…

Up until a certain point of development, with compound movements this is pretty much true. The guy who squats 315 with passable form is going to get more stimulation out of it than the guy who squats 225 with “perfect” form.

Now, in the case of more isolation movements, “quality of contraction” is more important than the load used… but a higher load can help you learn to contract better. By this I mean, the ability to keep the muscle contracted through the full range of movement. Think of doing a very light bicep curl – there’s not much stimulation to your muscle and it’s really easy to do. Now contract your muscle as hard as you can while doing that curl. That’s what I mean by “quality of contraction”.

There’s room for all of these techniques later on, but focusing on pushing the weight up in the major compound movements… rowing, pressing, benching, deadlifting, squatting… is going to develop a whole bunch of things, even if your form isn’t quite perfect.

Alright, I get it, thanks very much

[quote]LoRez wrote:

Now, in the case of more isolation movements, “quality of contraction” is more important than the load used… but a higher load can help you learn to contract better. By this I mean, the ability to keep the muscle contracted through the full range of movement. Think of doing a very light bicep curl – there’s not much stimulation to your muscle and it’s really easy to do. Now contract your muscle as hard as you can while doing that curl. That’s what I mean by “quality of contraction”.

[/quote]

I’ve seen a Kai Greene training video where he uses 25 lb dumbbells for biceps curls. I also remember ZRaw talking about rarely using heavier than 25’s for curls. Stu has also talked about how he really started growing once he stopped caring so much about moving the heaviest weights possible and really concentrated on form and optimal contraction.

And not that I’m particularly impressive, but I don’t really go heavier than 20’s for dumbbell curls, and I think most of my non-training friends would assume I use much heavier weights.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Stu has also talked about how he really started growing once he stopped caring so much about moving the heaviest weights possible and really concentrated on form and optimal contraction. [/quote]
Yep. In his Q+A just last week, he laid out some pretty great info on the topic:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/mighty_stu_yellin_wnbf_pro_updates_n_qa?pageNo=13#bottom

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
@StayStrong- Activities Guy pretty much hit my thinking on the head. I’ve never told anyone to go out of their way to lift light weights. Simply that the mentality of many of the gym rats when I first started training was to move as much weight as possible, at all costs. Progressive resistance training (the scientific jargon for anyone playing around with weights) means that there is some type of progression. The simplest way to measure a very obvious variable (especially for beginners) is to try and add more weight to the bar.

Obviously this isn’t a bad thing, but, as there are so many other factors involved, to simply ignore them, and their very important roles in contributing to muscle gain, will eventually lead you to the inevitable plateau of “I’m pretty strong, but I just can’t get my _____ to grow” that we’ve seen countless times.

Doing “work” doesn’t always mean you moved the most weight possible in the gym. One piece of advice I’ve been repeating over the years to clients, gym buddies, even co-workers who complain of not making progress, is “your muscles have no idea how much weight is on the bar.” All they know if how hard they are being called upon to work within a certain duration (that can be each set, or the total of your training session).

That means that some permutation of weight lifted, time under tension for target muscles, repetition cadence, state of target muscles going into a movement, ability of exercises chosen to hit specific muscle groups… will all factor in to whether you make physique progress or not.

Sure I’ve talked about how “chasing numbers” didn’t give me a Pro level physique, but learning to train properly did. That doesn’t mean that I went out of my way to train light. In fact, I’ve always hung around a good number of power lifters and strongman competitors and most would all agree that “for a bodybuilder”, I moved some pretty respectable poundages (550 squat, 500 dead, 385 flat bench - nothing to give a real PLer any competition, but I’m proud of 'em).

Your body will get stronger over time (to a point of course), it will just kinda happen if you’re continually pushing. But as someone who subjects themselves to the rigors of contest preps, you learn to me more mindful of the forest, not just the tress. During my first contest prep, I was still inclining sets of 275 a few weeks out. As the years went on, and I took a good hard look at the overall picture, I realized I could get the same stress by improving my performance of the movement, really milking it, avoiding portions of the ROM where I felt the stress lessen, even paying considerable attention to the sequencing of my chosen exercises for the day.

Sure I could still lay down on a flat bench and throw up 3+ plates if I did it first, BUT, I knew that my chest actually GREW better if I pre-exhausted first with cable flyes, and then used DB’s instead of a bar. Yes, it may not look as cool or impressive to the wanna be powerlifters throwing up more weight than they should be handling, and usually with form so bad it looks like they’re trying to give themselves scoliosis, but if your goal is a good looking physique, you have to keep a sane perspective.[/quote]

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]staystrong wrote:
Thanks for the reply Stu. I know you never told anyone to try to lift lighter weights, just to make sure the weight is appropriate for stimulating the muscle. Which for some people (myself included) means stepping back from what they’re currently lifting.[/quote]
Exactly! It just surprises me how many people misconstrue what this actually means. For every time I mention how top natty competitors like Brian Whitacre will point out how “not strong” they are, obviously they’re speaking relatively. They’d still bury the majority of people in any non-powerlifting gym with what they handle en route to their physique building goals.

Yates was always quick to say that if you’re not getting the size results you’re after, half your working weights and make sure you’re actually doing the work with your muscles. If you can separate your ego from the best route to your intended results, you’ll be much happier in the long run.[/quote]

I’d like to ask something, I do give a shit about your guys’ opinion!

I’ll be sticking to the basics (just like what I’ve been doing, seriously), but I’ll always read T-Nation’s articles because they are awesome!
However, not to call Chad Waterbury out, but I think what he wrote in this article is plain bullshit. Look at this:Build a Huge Chest in Six Weeks

Look at the slide push ups. If I understand him correctly, he says it’s far superior to the bench press (and the guillotine press lol) because you can bring your hands together at the end of the rep, thus better exploiting the horizontal adduction action of the pecs.

But if you think about it, it would be far better to do just that, with dumbbels, no? I’ll stick to my routine anyway, just wanted to ask something you guys, posting it here, instead of creating another thread

Also please tell me what you think of Coach Thibadau saying dips is the best chest exercise, pretty interesting to hear

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
I’d like to ask something, I do give a shit about your guys’ opinion!

I’ll be sticking to the basics (just like what I’ve been doing, seriously), but I’ll always read T-Nation’s articles because they are awesome!
However, not to call Chad Waterbury out, but I think what he wrote in this article is plain bullshit. Look at this:Build a Huge Chest in Six Weeks

Look at the slide push ups. If I understand him correctly, he says it’s far superior to the bench press (and the guillotine press lol) because you can bring your hands together at the end of the rep, thus better exploiting the horizontal adduction action of the pecs.

But if you think about it, it would be far better to do just that, with dumbbels, no? I’ll stick to my routine anyway, just wanted to ask something you guys, posting it here, instead of creating another thread

Also please tell me what you think of Coach Thibadau saying dips is the best chest exercise, pretty interesting to hear[/quote]

What experiences are you drawing from that lead you to say that CT or Chad Waterbuy are wrong? In your experience what is the best chest exercise and why have you developed that opinion??

Oh damn, not again… It looks like when it comes to wording these forums posts, I’m not the best.
Hey, I wasn’t critisizing them at all, I just wanted to ask

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
I’d like to ask something, I do give a shit about your guys’ opinion!

I’ll be sticking to the basics (just like what I’ve been doing, seriously), but I’ll always read T-Nation’s articles because they are awesome!
However, not to call Chad Waterbury out, but I think what he wrote in this article is plain bullshit. Look at this:Build a Huge Chest in Six Weeks

Look at the slide push ups. If I understand him correctly, he says it’s far superior to the bench press (and the guillotine press lol) because you can bring your hands together at the end of the rep, thus better exploiting the horizontal adduction action of the pecs.

But if you think about it, it would be far better to do just that, with dumbbels, no? I’ll stick to my routine anyway, just wanted to ask something you guys, posting it here, instead of creating another thread

Also please tell me what you think of Coach Thibadau saying dips is the best chest exercise, pretty interesting to hear[/quote]

I imagine if you spent half of the time in the gym or kitchen that you use posting ridiculous chest threads and undermining CT and Waterbury, you’d have made some decent progress.

Read, apply, and make your own observations.

Yep, I do, and I hope to make gains, yes.

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
However, not to call Chad Waterbury out, but I think what he wrote in this article is plain bullshit.[/quote]

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Hey, I wasn’t critisizing them at all, I just wanted to ask[/quote]

Wow. You have an interesting, annoying way of spouting off, then backing off as if nothing happened. You’ve done it to me, which is okay, but now to a pretty respected guy in Waterbury.

I guess I need to move on from anything you post from here on out. It is just too frustrating to continue. My friends call folks like you an energy vampire. I am tapping out.

Best wishes on achieving your goals.

I do appreciate your help, actually, seriously. Didn’t mean to ‘steal your energy’ or however to put it.

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Didn’t mean to ‘steal your energy’…[/quote]

I knew it all along. You’re a mutant! Admit it!

[quote]Souldozer wrote:

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
However, not to call Chad Waterbury out, but I think what he wrote in this article is plain bullshit.[/quote]

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Hey, I wasn’t critisizing them at all, I just wanted to ask[/quote]

Wow. You have an interesting, annoying way of spouting off, then backing off as if nothing happened. You’ve done it to me, which is okay, but now to a pretty respected guy in Waterbury.

I guess I need to move on from anything you post from here on out. It is just too frustrating to continue. My friends call folks like you an energy vampire. I am tapping out.

Best wishes on achieving your goals.[/quote]

Well, he does it to pretty much everyone. Subtle attacks (and sometimes not so subtle) to someone to get them to “prove” they’re right, then when they explain why he suddenly “wasn’t trying to fight/disagree” and then types in a weird way where you can’t tell if he’s being a sarcastic jerk who thinks your reply is dumb or lacks basic communication skills online and can’t figure out how to just say “thanks” and instead says things like “thanks, seriously, no seriously your right, like, that’s just the best advice ever. That makes perfect sense, I’ll just do [whatever you just said] and be awesome. Thanks, seriously”. Which sounds 99% like an ***hole and not someone who actually thanks you for advice.

Very odd way to go about things as a beginner who wants to learn. Like, seriously.