How Long Until Body Eats Muscle?

Diet and Nutrition
41

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]Blind-Sight MA wrote:
Ok Facko thank you for answering some questions instead of just telling me to go f myself. lol I really don’t understand the purpose of looking at questions if your answer is “look it up yourself”, so thanks. Would you suggest taking BCAA’s or some pure protein like egg whites in the morning? [/quote]

IMO it depends on your goals. I would probably use BCAAs if looking to gain muscle on an IF style diet. If you are looking to lose fat I wouldnt use them. BCAAs are still going to stimulate an insulin response at the time you want to keep it low to maximise fat burning. But I wouldnt use a protein with a full amino acid profile in either situation.[/quote]

Yes it creates an insulin response but it’s not the same as an insulin response that would be created from consuming carbohydrates. The insulin response from leucine or BCAAs or protein for that matter is transient and it’s basically a single pulse release. Carbohydrate consumption creates an continued insulin response until blood glucose levels are normalized…

The amount that it would inhibit fatloss would be pretty insignificant IMO. That being said, I really don’t see a reason for BCAAs unless you are training fasted…I wouldn’t just pulse a dose of BCAAs during the day. Your muscles aren’t going anywhere…it’s a waste of time and money IMO. Studies show that there is practically no muscle loss even during a 36 hour fast…and you’d basically just be skipping breakfast.

So either do it or don’t do it at all is my advice.

42

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

[quote]Blind-Sight MA wrote:
Ok Facko thank you for answering some questions instead of just telling me to go f myself. lol I really don’t understand the purpose of looking at questions if your answer is “look it up yourself”, so thanks. Would you suggest taking BCAA’s or some pure protein like egg whites in the morning? [/quote]

IMO it depends on your goals. I would probably use BCAAs if looking to gain muscle on an IF style diet. If you are looking to lose fat I wouldnt use them. BCAAs are still going to stimulate an insulin response at the time you want to keep it low to maximise fat burning. But I wouldnt use a protein with a full amino acid profile in either situation.[/quote]

Yes it creates an insulin response but it’s not the same as an insulin response that would be created from consuming carbohydrates. The insulin response from leucine or BCAAs or protein for that matter is transient and it’s basically a single pulse release. Carbohydrate consumption creates an continued insulin response until blood glucose levels are normalized…

The amount that it would inhibit fatloss would be pretty insignificant IMO. That being said, I really don’t see a reason for BCAAs unless you are training fasted…I wouldn’t just pulse a dose of BCAAs during the day. Your muscles aren’t going anywhere…it’s a waste of time and money IMO. Studies show that there is practically no muscle loss even during a 36 hour fast…and you’d basically just be skipping breakfast.

So either do it or don’t do it at all is my advice.[/quote]

Agreed on the no muscle loss side of things, but remember, when we are trying to build muscle you want to swing your ratio of breakdown/synthesis to a more positive one. Therefore anything you can do to increase synthesis (training/meals) or decrease breakdown (amino acids to burn in place of muscle) should bring positive results.

43

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:

I just cannot get away from fasting = limiting muscle mass gain. You can put on muscle, but there is a limit.[/quote]

This is undoubtedly false.

When you eat your calories is not nearly as important as how many calories you eat. Your body doesnt work on the same clock that your brain does.

For example.

Josh86 and DOHCrazy have both made gains while doing IF. Look at pics if you’d like

If you dont want to do it, thats totally ok. That doesnt mean it doesnt work. That’s a ridiculous conclusion to arise at. [/quote]

Soooooo gains from fasting = potential UNLIMITED Mass Gains ? Like, over a few hundred years? :slight_smile:
There is no doubt guys have made gains using IF. You mention that two guys made gains with IF. Good, and again, no doubt…never said it was impossible. But I don’t sincerely think you can make totally unlimited gains in only one lifetime using IF. That statement alone, is undoubtedly false.[/quote]

Theres a limit to how much muscle someone gains regardless of when they eat their calories. What are you saying?

Do you actually think THAT was the aspect of your post that I disputed? Come on, use some common sense.

What you meant by your post is that you cant gain as much muscle doing IF compared to traidtional eating. That’s wrong. And that’s clearly what you were trying to say because if you were just saying that the human body is limited in how much muscle can be gained, then you stated something completely obvious that has never been disputed.

[/quote]

I would be honored, if you didn’t put words in my mouth…that would help a lot.

“Theres a limit to how much muscle someone gains regardless of when they eat their calories. What are you saying?” If you are trying to make me look dumb, and you smart…that’s a great way to do it. OKay…you are smart, I am not…whatever you need, you got it.

Right. I say you can’t gain as much with IF as you can without. You say you can.
Nope. That would mean that you could see inside your body and be able to train so that
your nutrition needs were only at the times when you feed more.

If you eat all the time…how could you NOT get bigger. And, how can you tell if you IF, if you fast at an incorrect time? What window do you have to look inside your body to see that? And, further more, how do you properly, and perfectly match the fasting to your training…and do it exactly? Training hard, training a new body part, etc, they all affect the growth rate. How can you look inside your body and see what that is?

DOH and the other dude are huge. No doubt about it.

I won’t put words in your mouth, and say you said this, because its rude. But I will ask…
Did they train from day one with I F ? That would be… a miracle.

If it was that great, I would think Arnold would have done it.[/quote]

You dont seem to actually know the purpose of IF.

Youre coming up with excuses for why it may not work in theory. When there are dozens of testimonals showing how it does work. Further, your questions about ‘windows’ and whatever are answered when you learn about what IF entails.

What does starting from day one have to do with whether an IF approach allows for the same potential growth?

What dont you understand about the fact that somoene eating 4000 calories in an 8 hour time frame. is able to make gains just as well as someone eating 4000 calories (same macros) in a 16 hour time frame. Why do you think that’s impossible?

Do you also beleive that people need post workout carbs to make gains?

And that traiing on an empty stomach will catabolize muscle too?

[/quote]

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Try this one…and I don’t even have to say it…you said it.

What does starting from day one have to do with whether an IF approach allows for the same potential growth? Why did you tell me to check those two guys out? They could be on IF right now, and not losing muscle. And if you recall, I never said it causes you to lose muscle. But I don’t think you can honestly tell me that those two guys started skinny and did all that with IF. I also think it is wrong of you to point people to those guys and say their pictures are a result of IF. That’s misleading.

ust because those two guys are doing it now, does not prove that you can start with IF and get as huge as you want to…now does it? I guess you answered my question.
And that is my point. Remember a post ago when I used the word Unlimited? :slight_smile:

44

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Tx: read that last post of the exchange. In case you missed it.

I have a reason for believing that IF works. Whats your reason? Aside from your gut feeling. [/quote]

“Gut” feeling. That’s good…

45

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I think fasting protocols have their place. I am a fan. They are nothing new, we were using them in the mid-eighties. I still have my resevations about using them to add muscle. I have never known anyone that managed to put on the 50-80 lbs of LBM that most men need to reach a lean height/weight ratio in the 2.75 - 3.00 range. That said…I’m all for what works!
[/quote]

Is that because the protocol couldnt allow that or that people gravitate towards the norm from the outset and only try ‘strange’ things like IF as a way to change things?

The people I know that have used IF successfully are people that are relatively advanced. Making gains at a more adavanced stage in universally accepted as more difficult than newbie gains. Deductive reasoning leads me to beleive that a newb would fair just as well than an advanced person. [/quote]

A very good question…and I’m always curious about the motivation to change things.

My experiance as well. I wonder if advanced lifters find the protocol prefered because it allows them to continue to ‘gring out’ gains while remaining leaner than they otherwise would have been able to be.
Perhaps some of the new-blood that have adopted the IF protocol will be around long enough for us to find out.

46

[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Tx: read that last post of the exchange. In case you missed it.

I have a reason for believing that IF works. Whats your reason? Aside from your gut feeling. [/quote]

“Gut” feeling. That’s good…[/quote]

I was legitimately curious what you based your opinion on. Your reply, although comprised of only a few words, says a lot.

47

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Tx: read that last post of the exchange. In case you missed it.

I have a reason for believing that IF works. Whats your reason? Aside from your gut feeling. [/quote]

“Gut” feeling. That’s good…[/quote]

I was legitimately curious what you based your opinion on. Your reply, although comprised of only a few words, says a lot. [/quote]

Oh lawd,

U Mad that you be toastin’ on a roll bread?

Bonez… save your intelligence and logic for someone else.

48

[quote]ahu2468 wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Tx: read that last post of the exchange. In case you missed it.

I have a reason for believing that IF works. Whats your reason? Aside from your gut feeling. [/quote]

“Gut” feeling. That’s good…[/quote]

I was legitimately curious what you based your opinion on. Your reply, although comprised of only a few words, says a lot. [/quote]

Oh lawd,

U Mad that you be toastin’ on a roll bread?

Bonez… save your intelligence and logic for someone else.[/quote]

Nope. Just busy and having a conversation with whoever the hell that is dudn’t make it into my top 100 things to do right now… It reminds me of growing up…there is always a guy in the group who is loudest, may be largest, etc, and if he talks the loudest, then he is the king and whatever he says is gospel truth. You go bnz. You the man. Now go pat yourself on the back, I got work to do.

Its interesting, whatever he says has to be truth, and it is, to HIM. But, that doesn’t mean that if he says 2 + 2 = 5, he’s right.

I guess in this world, he who whines the loudest, and the longest, wins. You win Boner.

50

[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:

[quote]ahu2468 wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Tx: read that last post of the exchange. In case you missed it.

I have a reason for believing that IF works. Whats your reason? Aside from your gut feeling. [/quote]

“Gut” feeling. That’s good…[/quote]

I was legitimately curious what you based your opinion on. Your reply, although comprised of only a few words, says a lot. [/quote]

Oh lawd,

U Mad that you be toastin’ on a roll bread?

Bonez… save your intelligence and logic for someone else.[/quote]

Nope. Just busy and having a conversation with whoever the hell that is dudn’t make it into my top 100 things to do right now… It reminds me of growing up…there is always a guy in the group who is loudest, may be largest, etc, and if he talks the loudest, then he is the king and whatever he says is gospel truth. You go bnz. You the man. Now go pat yourself on the back, I got work to do.

Its interesting, whatever he says has to be truth, and it is, to HIM. But, that doesn’t mean that if he says 2 + 2 = 5, he’s right.

I guess in this world, he who whines the loudest, and the longest, wins. You win Boner.

[/quote]

So this surely means you have nothing to base your opinion on? Is that a safe assumption at this point?

Just because I post often doesn’t mean I’m wrong here. I hope ‘logical fallacies’ makes it into your top 100 list. Learning about them would be time well spent.