[quote]Sifu wrote:
sands wrote:
I’m assuming the gun murder stats differ from deaths involving guns? Accidental and so forth.
Very much so. A murder represents the deliberate, intentional, misuse of a firearm against someone who cared about their life.
A suicide on the other hand represents someone who did not care about their life and threw it away. Gun control advocates like to lump suicides in with murders because it makes the things seem worse than they really are.
One of the arguements for gun control is that America has the highest suicide rate with guns. But if you ever look at how America compares to other coutries for overall suicides, ie hanging, or a handful of pills and a fifth of wiskey, etc… you will see that America ranks 43 in the world just ahead of Australia which is 44, Canada is 40, New Zealand is 38, Japan is 10.
Suicides should have no place in the debate really, because it is putting the life of someone who doesn’t give a damn about their life, before the self defensive needs of someone who cares very much about their life. [/quote]
Suicides aside, and I’m sure this is more a case of ‘if it bleeds it leads’, but over here at least when gun culture in America is referenced it usually ends up talking about when little timmy finds daddys gun or when a wife shoots her husband after he comes in late at night and she mistakes him for a thief.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Back to the original point of this thread.
Does anyone have any insights into designing and machining guns at home? We all need to become John Browning, each and every one of us. [/quote]
By at home you mean at your well-equipped machine shop? Most anyone with the ability to build anything besides a zip gun or a Liberator Pistol-type weapon will either have a pretty good idea how to put their own weapons together or know someone who could teach them. Either way, quality gunsmithy isn’t a skill you acquire from the internet.
Why would you machine your own guns anyway? For what it would cost you in capital and man hours to produce a single Browning-quality weapon from scratch you could own and be extremely facile with an arsenal.
Gunsmiths are a long-term, infrastructure-intensive investment. Hardly conducive to anything except a hobby to support a stable society/gov’t.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Back to the original point of this thread.
Does anyone have any insights into designing and machining guns at home? We all need to become John Browning, each and every one of us.
By at home you mean at your well-equipped machine shop? Most anyone with the ability to build anything besides a zip gun or a Liberator Pistol-type weapon will either have a pretty good idea how to put their own weapons together or know someone who could teach them. Either way, quality gunsmithy isn’t a skill you acquire from the internet.
Why would you machine your own guns anyway? For what it would cost you in capital and man hours to produce a single Browning-quality weapon from scratch you could own and be extremely facile with an arsenal.
Gunsmiths are a long-term, infrastructure-intensive investment. Hardly conducive to anything except a hobby to support a stable society/gov’t.[/quote]
The reason for this is stated at the beginning of the thread: repeated assaults on RKBA throughout the WEstern world.
The Browning brothers fabricated pretty much everything at a lathe, which can be found cheaply on Ebay.
One brother would come up with an idea and the other would turn it out. The guy that designed the johnson semi-automatic rifle, model of 1941 built it in his living room using hand tools and used a darning needle for a firing pin. That’s the kind of ingenuity and can-doism we need to be discussing in this thread.
[quote]sands wrote:
Sifu wrote:
sands wrote:
I’m assuming the gun murder stats differ from deaths involving guns? Accidental and so forth.
Very much so. A murder represents the deliberate, intentional, misuse of a firearm against someone who cared about their life.
A suicide on the other hand represents someone who did not care about their life and threw it away. Gun control advocates like to lump suicides in with murders because it makes the things seem worse than they really are.
One of the arguements for gun control is that America has the highest suicide rate with guns. But if you ever look at how America compares to other coutries for overall suicides, ie hanging, or a handful of pills and a fifth of wiskey, etc… you will see that America ranks 43 in the world just ahead of Australia which is 44, Canada is 40, New Zealand is 38, Japan is 10.
Suicides should have no place in the debate really, because it is putting the life of someone who doesn’t give a damn about their life, before the self defensive needs of someone who cares very much about their life.
Suicides aside, and I’m sure this is more a case of ‘if it bleeds it leads’, but over here at least when gun culture in America is referenced it usually ends up talking about when little timmy finds daddys gun or when a wife shoots her husband after he comes in late at night and she mistakes him for a thief.
[/quote]
You raise two very important points about how the issue of guns is covered in places like the UK or Australia. One is the media gives a very one sided account. The other is the liberal use of the predjudicial term “gun culture”.
The media usually use the term along with some suitable graphic like Dirty Harry with his .44 magnum pointing at the camera in order to paint a picture in people heads.
The reason why the term gun culture is predjudicial is because of the one sided reporting, it is able to conjure a whole set of memories and visuals that people have been bombarded with by the media. The media then has been very adept at convincing people that it is because of some kind of mass insanity or ignorant backwardsness and a lack of modern, progressive, sophistication in Americans that is cultural. What happens then is if someone is an advocate for gun ownership they are immediately looked upon as a part of gun culture and people shut them out and don’t listen. Why? Because gun culture is something they have been educated to believe is something ignorant, backwards, unsophisticated, redneck, primative savages belong to.
Another reason why the term gun culture is predjudicial is because there is no counter term. You never hear the term “gun control culture” or “anti-gun culture” used to describe people who advocate gun control. Because the media wants to create an us versus them mentality where the gun culture is this definable, backwards, violent, abnormal minority. While the gun control crowd is painted as normal society that doesn’t have definable labels that can be hung on it.
Guns are a great equalizer for the weak and elderly. But what you don’t see in the Uk news is people like the little old lady in Detroit who was sitting in her living room of her apartment minding her own business. When a young man who weighed 260 and was built like a linebacker start kicking down the door to her apartment. Luckily for her she still had a momento of her deceased husband in the side table, a .44 magnum handgun. Just as the thug tore her door off the wall she opened fire and killed him. When the police came they ruled it justifiable homicide and hauled off the body.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
lucasa wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Back to the original point of this thread.
Does anyone have any insights into designing and machining guns at home? We all need to become John Browning, each and every one of us.
By at home you mean at your well-equipped machine shop? Most anyone with the ability to build anything besides a zip gun or a Liberator Pistol-type weapon will either have a pretty good idea how to put their own weapons together or know someone who could teach them. Either way, quality gunsmithy isn’t a skill you acquire from the internet.
Why would you machine your own guns anyway? For what it would cost you in capital and man hours to produce a single Browning-quality weapon from scratch you could own and be extremely facile with an arsenal. Gunsmiths are a long-term, infrastructure-intensive investment. Hardly conducive to anything except a hobby to support a stable society/gov’t.
The reason for this is stated at the beginning of the thread: repeated assaults on RKBA throughout the WEstern world.
The Browning brothers fabricated pretty much everything at a lathe, which can be found cheaply on Ebay. One brother would come up with an idea and the other would turn it out. The guy that designed the johnson semi-automatic rifle, model of 1941 built it in his living room using hand tools and used a darning needle for a firing pin. That’s the kind of ingenuity and can-doism we need to be discussing in this thread.
[/quote]
Instead of making automatics you should probably first try making a revolver. It’s much simpler.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
lucasa wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Back to the original point of this thread.
Does anyone have any insights into designing and machining guns at home? We all need to become John Browning, each and every one of us.
By at home you mean at your well-equipped machine shop? Most anyone with the ability to build anything besides a zip gun or a Liberator Pistol-type weapon will either have a pretty good idea how to put their own weapons together or know someone who could teach them. Either way, quality gunsmithy isn’t a skill you acquire from the internet.
Why would you machine your own guns anyway? For what it would cost you in capital and man hours to produce a single Browning-quality weapon from scratch you could own and be extremely facile with an arsenal.
Gunsmiths are a long-term, infrastructure-intensive investment. Hardly conducive to anything except a hobby to support a stable society/gov’t.
The reason for this is stated at the beginning of the thread: repeated assaults on RKBA throughout the WEstern world.
The Browning brothers fabricated pretty much everything at a lathe, which can be found cheaply on Ebay. One brother would come up with an idea and the other would turn it out.
The guy that designed the johnson semi-automatic rifle, model of 1941 built it in his living room using hand tools and used a darning needle for a firing pin. That’s the kind of ingenuity and can-doism we need to be discussing in this thread.
Instead of making automatics you should probably first try making a revolver. It’s much simpler.[/quote]
I’m not so sure. Isn’t it hard to make the indexing head for the cylinder and aren’t barrels very tough to make? I think revolvers are perfectly fine self-defense tools, obviously, but I’m not sure they’re easier to make.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
lucasa wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Back to the original point of this thread.
Does anyone have any insights into designing and machining guns at home? We all need to become John Browning, each and every one of us.
By at home you mean at your well-equipped machine shop? Most anyone with the ability to build anything besides a zip gun or a Liberator Pistol-type weapon will either have a pretty good idea how to put their own weapons together or know someone who could teach them. Either way, quality gunsmithy isn’t a skill you acquire from the internet.
Why would you machine your own guns anyway? For what it would cost you in capital and man hours to produce a single Browning-quality weapon from scratch you could own and be extremely facile with an arsenal. Gunsmiths are a long-term, infrastructure-intensive investment. Hardly conducive to anything except a hobby to support a stable society/gov’t.
The reason for this is stated at the beginning of the thread: repeated assaults on RKBA throughout the WEstern world.
The Browning brothers fabricated pretty much everything at a lathe, which can be found cheaply on Ebay. One brother would come up with an idea and the other would turn it out. The guy that designed the johnson semi-automatic rifle, model of 1941 built it in his living room using hand tools and used a darning needle for a firing pin. That’s the kind of ingenuity and can-doism we need to be discussing in this thread.
[/quote]
Don’t misunderstand me, Browning was a genius, no doubt. He was a fabulous inventor. It’s funny, but no one ever talks about what kind of a shot or how good a hunter he was. But, you’re talking about “fighting” increasingly oppressive governments and gun legislation by buying lathes and drill presses.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
But, you’re talking about “fighting” increasingly oppressive governments and gun legislation by buying lathes and drill presses.
No, I’m not. I’m talking about self-defense against criminals. [/quote]
With lathes and drill presses?
IMO, spend the $$$ to get accuracy and reliability or for the sake of expediency make use of whatever is at hand. Spending the money on machine shop equipment doesn’t get you the accuracy, reliability, or expediency. Not that one couldn’t be a guru of gunsmithy and get the accuracy and reliability out of your machine shop, but it’s something that you can’t get off an internet forum.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
But, you’re talking about “fighting” increasingly oppressive governments and gun legislation by buying lathes and drill presses.
No, I’m not. I’m talking about self-defense against criminals.
With lathes and drill presses?
IMO, spend the $$$ to get accuracy and reliability or for the sake of expediency make use of whatever is at hand. Spending the money on machine shop equipment doesn’t get you the accuracy, reliability, or expediency. Not that one couldn’t be a guru of gunsmithy and get the accuracy and reliability out of your machine shop, but it’s something that you can’t get off an internet forum.[/quote]
Listen, bro, you’ve got to read the start of this thread. The point of it is discussing home gun manufacture in the case LEGAL gun ownership rights are revoked, as they are now in every Western country save Switzerland, Ireland, Canada, and the US.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Sifu wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
lucasa wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Back to the original point of this thread.
Does anyone have any insights into designing and machining guns at home? We all need to become John Browning, each and every one of us.
By at home you mean at your well-equipped machine shop? Most anyone with the ability to build anything besides a zip gun or a Liberator Pistol-type weapon will either have a pretty good idea how to put their own weapons together or know someone who could teach them. Either way, quality gunsmithy isn’t a skill you acquire from the internet.
Why would you machine your own guns anyway? For what it would cost you in capital and man hours to produce a single Browning-quality weapon from scratch you could own and be extremely facile with an arsenal.
Gunsmiths are a long-term, infrastructure-intensive investment. Hardly conducive to anything except a hobby to support a stable society/gov’t.
The reason for this is stated at the beginning of the thread: repeated assaults on RKBA throughout the WEstern world.
The Browning brothers fabricated pretty much everything at a lathe, which can be found cheaply on Ebay. One brother would come up with an idea and the other would turn it out.
The guy that designed the johnson semi-automatic rifle, model of 1941 built it in his living room using hand tools and used a darning needle for a firing pin. That’s the kind of ingenuity and can-doism we need to be discussing in this thread.
Instead of making automatics you should probably first try making a revolver. It’s much simpler.
I’m not so sure. Isn’t it hard to make the indexing head for the cylinder and aren’t barrels very tough to make? I think revolvers are perfectly fine self-defense tools, obviously, but I’m not sure they’re easier to make. [/quote]
If you can’t make a simple indexing system for a revolver what makes you think you are going to be able to make the feed and extraction system for an automatic?
Think about it logically. How did our grandfathers make firearms? Because that is your blueprint. I think you are trying to run before you can walk. You need to start simple and work your way up.
Automatics require cased ammunition for the extraction and feed mechanisms to work. If you can’t buy a gun what makes you think you will still be able to buy ammo? Or do you think you will be able to make your own cases and smokeless ammo also?
A revolver can work with black powder, a lead ball and flintlock ignition.
Barrel making can be as hard or as easy as you want it to be. I guess you could go out and find raw pieces of iron ore in a river bed, set up your own smelting operation, then take the raw product and hammer forge it into a billet, form it into a round ready for drilling then rifleing.
It would be much easier to start with an off the shelf piece of barstock though. Easier than that would be to buy steel tubing. Rifling might be good for accuracy but it’s not like you can’t go without it.
You don’t even need to use steel either. Our grandfathers used to make cannons with nothing more than sand and molten brass.
If you want an easy gun to make you should study the British sten gun. The British used to air drop dies and instructions to the resistance and they would make thier own with basic hand tools.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
lucasa wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
But, you’re talking about “fighting” increasingly oppressive governments and gun legislation by buying lathes and drill presses.
No, I’m not. I’m talking about self-defense against criminals.
With lathes and drill presses?
IMO, spend the $$$ to get accuracy and reliability or for the sake of expediency make use of whatever is at hand. Spending the money on machine shop equipment doesn’t get you the accuracy, reliability, or expediency. Not that one couldn’t be a guru of gunsmithy and get the accuracy and reliability out of your machine shop, but it’s something that you can’t get off an internet forum.
Listen, bro, you’ve got to read the start of this thread. The point of it is discussing home gun manufacture in the case LEGAL gun ownership rights are revoked, as they are now in every Western country save Switzerland, Ireland, Canada, and the US.[/quote]
You can still own firearms in Australia, its just more controlled in relation to automatic weapons and the like.
Grandfathers or great great granfathers? Because the barrel making methods haven’t changed in a long long time, and they’re still all difficult. Rifles used to be made by heating up steel bar and hammering it around a mandril on an anvil. But that’s more of a great great grandfather thing.
If you can tell me a simple method of making a pistol barrel, than the rest seems rather trivial in comparison, whether it’s a revolver or an automatic. As far as I know, they’re made just like a rifle barrel, where you turn the entire barrel and push through a gundrill. I suppose a pistol barrel could be made by just putting steel bar on a lathe and boring through, but I don’t know.
It would depend upon the wall thickness of the tubing. Also the alloy used. You would want a metal that isn’t going to be brittle.
4130 Seamless Chrome moly bicycle tubing might work. It’s strong lightweight. Easily worked and welded. It can be mildly hardened and nitrided for wear and abrasion resistance.
Of course I could be wrong and it will blow up in your face. So I guess I should qualify these suggestions with this disclaimer. “You’ll shoot your eye out!”
[quote]
Of course I could be wrong and it will blow up in your face. So I guess I should qualify these suggestions with this disclaimer. “You’ll shoot your eye out!”[/quote]
Welding a barrel to a receiver would seem to me to be a bad idea.
The G5 and Cetme barrels are welded to the reciever. There is an art to doing that kind of work. You have to use heat sinks and you can’t apply heat for long enough to change the temper of the metal but it can be done.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
The G5 and Cetme barrels are welded to the reciever. There is an art to doing that kind of work. You have to use heat sinks and you can’t apply heat for long enough to change the temper of the metal but it can be done.[/quote]
Ok, so that’s out of the question then. I guess it needs to be threaded on a lathe.
Is building a rifling bench pretty much the only way to properly bore a barrel, and if so, are there any expedient methods of building one? I know Guy Lautard has got some plans for one for sale.
One more question. Rifle barrels are thicker near the breech to make room for reaming and bolt locking and thinner near the the muzzle. This is done on a lathe, right?