Grass Fed Beef

[rainjack]

[quote]Kuz wrote:
RJ - What about a situation of a smaller farm that raises their own cattle and slaughters them as well? I can certainly see an issue occurring with large scale cattle farming operations and be less-than-truthful about what exactly their feed their livestock.

I guess I am thinking about some of the smaller farms here in New England that raise (what they claim to be) grass-fed beef. These are not major operations by any stretch of the imagination, but then again, I am not 100% sure if I could tell just going to their farm to pick up the beef what their exact practices are.[/quote]

You can’t know what you are buying - it is impossible. You can change the entire way the meat tastes/looks/feels by changing the animal’s diet 60-90 days prior to slaughter.

Just think what kind of body comp difference you would have over a 90 day period if you completely changed your diet - whether for the good or for worse.

My main bitch with the “100% grass fed” label is that there is absolutely no way to verify what a commercial herd has eaten for the entirity of their lives.

I would say, with a pretty high degree of certainty, that 99.9% of the farmers that have their cattle on grass 100% of the time will also supplement the grass with a quality protein such as cotton or soybean meal. If they don’t they will have an extrordinarily high death loss.

I think it would be a much better, more honest way of advertising if the producers - from the larger commercial operations down to the mom and pop farms in NE - would just say that the cattle were finished on grass (spent the last 60 - 90 days prior to slaughter free of grains).

And don’t even get me started on anti-biotics, or growth stimulants.

[Kuz]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Kuz wrote:
RJ - What about a situation of a smaller farm that raises their own cattle and slaughters them as well? I can certainly see an issue occurring with large scale cattle farming operations and be less-than-truthful about what exactly their feed their livestock.

I guess I am thinking about some of the smaller farms here in New England that raise (what they claim to be) grass-fed beef. These are not major operations by any stretch of the imagination, but then again, I am not 100% sure if I could tell just going to their farm to pick up the beef what their exact practices are.

You can’t know what you are buying - it is impossible. You can change the entire way the meat tastes/looks/feels by changing the animal’s diet 60-90 days prior to slaughter.

Just think what kind of body comp difference you would have over a 90 day period if you completely changed your diet - whether for the good or for worse.

My main bitch with the “100% grass fed” label is that there is absolutely no way to verify what a commercial herd has eaten for the entirity of their lives.

I would say, with a pretty high degree of certainty, that 99.9% of the farmers that have their cattle on grass 100% of the time will also supplement the grass with a quality protein such as cotton or soybean meal. If they don’t they will have an extrordinarily high death loss.

I think it would be a much better, more honest way of advertising if the producers - from the larger commercial operations down to the mom and pop farms in NE - would just say that the cattle were finished on grass (spent the last 60 - 90 days prior to slaughter free of grains).

And don’t even get me started on anti-biotics, or growth stimulants.

[/quote]

Thanks, RJ. This is actually a pretty interesting discussion and quite an eye-opener.

I do remember when I asked the butcher at Whole Foods about their having grass-fed beef, he said did say that they were grass-raised, but grain finished (or maybe it was the other way around… it’s early in the AM right now).

[Hot_AZ]

I agree, very interesting discussion! We are buying a 1/2 cow this winter from my husbands parents who raise and butcher a few head on site. I had tons of questions about the process after reading this thread

Thanks for all the great info!

[rainjack]

[quote]Kuz wrote:
Thanks, RJ. This is actually a pretty interesting discussion and quite an eye-opener.

I do remember when I asked the butcher at Whole Foods about their having grass-fed beef, he said did say that they were grass-raised, but grain finished (or maybe it was the other way around… it’s early in the AM right now).[/quote]

That’s the classic way producer’s raise cattle. They are all born. They all eat grass and wheat supplemented with milk, and what we call “cake” (soybean, or cotton meal pressed into cubes).

When the cattle are weaned - they are either taken to wheat pasture(more grass) or are put in a feedlot(grain).

Eventually, 99% of all cattle sold in grocery stores wind up in a feedlot being fed an extremely hot ration (hot means very grain intensive).

So the argument could be made that ALL cattle are grass fed - just like Barney alluded to.

The difference is in the finishing - the last 60 - 90 days before slaughter. Finishing cattle on grain will allow the cattle to gain anywhere from 2 - 3 pounds a day depending on their condition and sex (steers are far more efficient at converting feed to weight gain than heifers).

Grass fed beef will only gain from 1-2 pounds a day. That’s the precise reason why grain is fed to the beef: conversion efficiency.

I could put only 90 pounds on the cattle, or I could put 270 on them in the same 90 day window. at around 80 cents a pound, I could make an extra $144 feeding grain over feeding grass.

If producers could find a way to brand their beef (grass fed, 100% grass fed, etc) to make up for the inefficiency of feeding grass, then they would have an incentive to do so. Which it seems they have found - as the flavor of grass FINISHED beef is far superior than grain fed beef such that folks are willing to pay a premium for that taste.

Calling anything “100% whatever” is almost always going to be a lie. IF they would just say that the beef is “grass finished”, I would feel much more confident in the product I was buying.

WHo the hell knew I would be putting my animal sciece degree to work on T-Nation ?

[swivel]

[quote]rainjack wrote:

WHo the hell knew I would be putting my animal sciece degree to work on T-Nation ?

[/quote]

awesome posts !

[rainjack]

[quote]Hot AZ wrote:
I agree, very interesting discussion! We are buying a 1/2 cow this winter from my husbands parents who raise and butcher a few head on site. I had tons of questions about the process after reading this thread

Thanks for all the great info!
[/quote]

We do some swapping every year with one client or another. Not that kind of swapping, although…

Seriously - we barter for pigs, beef, use of a tanning bed, etc.

Anyhow - I made the mistake of trusting one of our rancher clients to swap my tax/financial work for a one of his beeves. He gave us what must have been a 12 year-old broke mouthed cow. I have never ate anything so damned tough in my life.

Not that your in-laws would do that to you, or anything. We also got an injured show steer one year that was melt in your mouth delicious. I was sad to the the last of him get eaten.

[Hot_AZ]

rainjack~

I’ll be sure we get a good one, LOL. I’m sure they wouldn’t do that. They are good people and I trust them. Besides, they will most likely get the other 1/2 of the cow for themselves.

I appreciate all your feedback. I’m absolutely enthralled in the process now. I’ll admit, complete city girl here my whole life. Doesn’t beef just come from the grocer?

But seriously, we’ve had some good discussions lately at home and at work. I’m interested in learning more about kosher beef as well.

And one last question, if you don’t mind. Is getting our meat from a local butcher any better than getting it at a grocery store? What are the benefits?

[chillain]

[quote]swivel wrote:
rainjack wrote:

WHo the hell knew I would be putting my animal sciece degree to work on T-Nation ?

awesome posts ![/quote]

Seriously. Your knowledge is appreciated, RJ.

[Kuz]

[quote]chillain wrote:
swivel wrote:
rainjack wrote:

WHo the hell knew I would be putting my animal sciece degree to work on T-Nation ?

awesome posts !

Seriously. Your knowledge is appreciated, RJ.

[/quote]

Ditto. This is some fascinating stuff. UConn has an ag school and all I know about it is that they make some seriously mean ice cream.

[rainjack]

[quote]Hot AZ wrote:
And one last question, if you don’t mind. Is getting our meat from a local butcher any better than getting it at a grocery store? What are the benefits?
[/quote]

He’s probably getting his beef from the same place that the grocery stores are getting theirs. Unless he contracts locally - the days of the slab of beef hanging in the meat locker are long gone - they call it “boxed beef” now, and it comes in…boxes.

But the butcher can custom cut your meat. The grocer will sell cuts that make the most money. You really have more control over the meat you buy with a butcher.

If you want extra lean ground meat - you can get it just as lean as you want it. If you prefer NY strips to ribeyes - the butcher can do it.

I would buy from butchers exclusively if there were one in our area. We have a custom slaughter house, but the meat they sell to the public is not very good.

The downside to the butcher is that you will pay more for your meat.

In a perfect world, I could raise my own grass fed steer every year, and have the slaughter house cut my dead cow up exactly the way I like it. My mouth is all watery from thinking about 1.5" ribeyes.

Now I have to go grill some damn chicken. That’s worse than thinking the good looking chick has a thing for you only to find out it is her fat, toothless roomate.

[tveddy]

I like to take a different approach to acquiring my grass fed beef. What I do is I go get a cow, feed it grass, and then butcher it. In a few weeks I plan on getting some grass fed venison. What I’m gonna do is go to an area where there is a lot of grass, and find a deer, and shoot it and butcher it. I also plan on finding some wild raised pheasant and shooting them and butchering them.

Sorry, I had to rub it in, I don’t have a hard time finding stuff like that.

[Hot_AZ]

Extra lean ground beef 1.69 a pound here this week. Its not stamped grass fed but after reading all the posts, damn, i’m stocking up anyway.

Can’t wait for our side of beef but it will probably be Feb by the time we can schedule a pickup. We have to drive from AZ to WY to get it.

Thanks for the info on the butcher vs grocer rainjack!

[Kill_Em_All]

HELLO, whole foods, and trader joes.

whole foods ground grass fed organic beef is 6.99 a lb, trader joes also has ground grass fed beef thats 5.99 a lb.
whole foods has a grass fed sirloin that is 7.99 a lb.

[rainjack]

[quote]Kill’Em All wrote:
HELLO, whole foods, and trader joes.

whole foods ground grass fed organic beef is 6.99 a lb, trader joes also has ground grass fed beef thats 5.99 a lb.
whole foods has a grass fed sirloin that is 7.99 a lb.[/quote]

You have missed the point of the discussion. You have no idea what “grass fed” means. No one does. All cattle are fed grass - they are ruminants.

The label means nothing.

[swivel]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Kill’Em All wrote:
HELLO, whole foods, and trader joes.

whole foods ground grass fed organic beef is 6.99 a lb, trader joes also has ground grass fed beef thats 5.99 a lb.
whole foods has a grass fed sirloin that is 7.99 a lb.

You have missed the point of the discussion. You have no idea what “grass fed” means. No one does. All cattle are fed grass - they are ruminants.

The label means nothing. [/quote]

As was previously stated " buyer beware ".

i’m not saying there’s not good meat @ whole foods there is. but, speaking as someone who does business w/them on a regular basis, there’s no reason to trust them any more than anyone else. if it fits their brand profile(pushes the right consumer buttons), and it’s legal for them to sell it, they will.

[Kill_Em_All]

[quote]swivel wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Kill’Em All wrote:
HELLO, whole foods, and trader joes.

whole foods ground grass fed organic beef is 6.99 a lb, trader joes also has ground grass fed beef thats 5.99 a lb.
whole foods has a grass fed sirloin that is 7.99 a lb.

You have missed the point of the discussion. You have no idea what “grass fed” means. No one does. All cattle are fed grass - they are ruminants.

The label means nothing.

As was previously stated " buyer beware ".

i’m not saying there’s not good meat @ whole foods there is. but, speaking as someone who does business w/them on a regular basis, there’s no reason to trust them any more than anyone else. if it fits their brand profile(pushes the right consumer buttons), and it’s legal for them to sell it, they will.[/quote]

Ok i might of missed between the lines from one page.

tell me more about why whole foods grass fed is bad?

Reading the sign says, organics , no anti biotics
no added hormones, not grain fed, fed grass.

I can sure taste the difference as grass fed beef is more oily.

is this true for the TJ grass fed beef? to.

[Kill_Em_All]

ok i see where i went wrong.

but i now have to say that meat is a shady business.

i think animal proteins are losing their greatness. chicken im sure is just as bad even if its organic,
fish is contaminated,
and beef is unregulated despite label claims.

lets not mention the milk that most protein powders come from probably has alott of estrogen bi products in it as well.

[rainjack]

[quote]Kill’Em All wrote:
ok i see where i went wrong.

but i now have to say that meat is a shady business.

i think animal proteins are losing their greatness. chicken im sure is just as bad even if its organic,
fish is contaminated,
and beef is unregulated despite label claims.

lets not mention the milk that most protein powders come from probably has alott of estrogen bi products in it as well.

[/quote]

The US has, by far, the safest meat supply in the world. I would not say that the meat is unregulated - only the labeling.

Think back to when the whole “fat-free” craze started. Did you know that, if they sold it in small enough packages, pure butter could be designated as fat-free?

The same goes with the whole “grass-fed beef”, or “free range chicken” thing today.

Until someone defines “grass-fed” you just don’t know what you are buying.

[SkyzykS]

[quote]tveddy wrote:
I like to take a different approach to acquiring my grass fed beef. What I do is I go get a cow, feed it grass, and then butcher it. In a few weeks I plan on getting some grass fed venison. What I’m gonna do is go to an area where there is a lot of grass, and find a deer, and shoot it and butcher it. I also plan on finding some wild raised pheasant and shooting them and butchering them.

Sorry, I had to rub it in, I don’t have a hard time finding stuff like that.[/quote]

Just a few weeks ago I scored 50 lbs. of venison for 50 bucks.

Part of the controlled hunt/herd culling that they do around here.

[swivel]

[quote]Kill’Em All wrote:
swivel wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Kill’Em All wrote:
HELLO, whole foods, and trader joes.

whole foods ground grass fed organic beef is 6.99 a lb, trader joes also has ground grass fed beef thats 5.99 a lb.
whole foods has a grass fed sirloin that is 7.99 a lb.

You have missed the point of the discussion. You have no idea what “grass fed” means. No one does. All cattle are fed grass - they are ruminants.

The label means nothing.

As was previously stated " buyer beware ".

i’m not saying there’s not good meat @ whole foods there is. but, speaking as someone who does business w/them on a regular basis, there’s no reason to trust them any more than anyone else. if it fits their brand profile(pushes the right consumer buttons), and it’s legal for them to sell it, they will.

Ok i might of missed between the lines from one page.

tell me more about why whole foods grass fed is bad?

Reading the sign says, organics , no anti biotics
no added hormones, not grain fed, fed grass.

I can sure taste the difference as grass fed beef is more oily.

is this true for the TJ grass fed beef? to.[/quote]

how the heck did you leap from what i actually said:
" i’m not saying there’s not good meat @ whole foods there is. "

to what you said i said : " wf grass fed is bad " ?

the point of my post is buyer beware. as you’ve learned here you can call ANY meat “grass fed”. if it’s important to you ask questions and find out. go visit the farm whatever. if taste alone is most important then just keep buying what tastes good.