GOP Debate

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Ron Paul seems pretty clueless when he makes statements like he did in the debate as does Pat Buchanon.
[/quote]
Wait just a damn second, are you seriously telling me that when Rudy says to Paul “that is an absurd theory” he does not sound clueless? Mr 9/11 himself?

Oh come on Zap.

No, not everyone does. Maybe in recent years since the Iraq war more people are starting to believe this, but after 9/11 and for a few years post that it was not the view.

"By a 51% to 38% margin, most Americans do not believe that “there is anything that the U.S. did wrong in its dealings with other countries that might have motivated the 9/11 terrorist attacks.” This is largely unchanged from how the public viewed this question in the weeks following the attacks themselves, nearly three years ago.

Even fewer (28%) believe there is any way that the U.S. was “unfair” in its dealings with other countries that might have motivated the terrorist attacks, though this percentage has risen from 23% two years ago, and 21% in late September 2001."

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=866

You read it that way. To me its like saying the Treaty of Versailles is justification for WW2. You don’t understand that most Americans before 9/11 had very little idea what the USA was doing globally.

Except for a major conflict, like the first Gulf War and the situation in Bosnia, you would be hard pressed to find an average someone that could tell you where our military bases where, why they were there, and what we were doing in that region.

Why is it a bad idea? Because it “emboldens our enemies”?

I for one like to know that an individual running for the President has a solid understanding of cause and effect and the nuances of our foreign policy. Something Ron Paul appears to have more than anyone else. If the polls are to be believed, most of the people watching these debates seem to feel that what Paul says is pretty good stuff.

So does Rudy’s apparent lack of knowledge on the 9/11 Commission Report.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Ron Paul seems pretty clueless when he makes statements like he did in the debate as does Pat Buchanon.

Everyone understands that we are a target for terrorists because of our policies.

The statements made seem to provide the terrorists justifications for their actions without further examining why are policies are the way they are.

Paul (and some of the posters here) are acting as if this is new knowledge and don’t understand why it is a bad idea to discuss these things in a televised presidential debate.

It just seems very naive to me.[/quote]

Guliani acted as if it was new knowledge so maybe if he keeps Paul on his staff to read and explain all the complex stuff to him?

The 9-11 hero can`t be bothered to read the report…

Oh my…

And yes, bombing them means shit, but when RON PAUL says something on American TV millions of muslims decide to attack the BIG SATAN…

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Paul (and some of the posters here) are acting as if this is new knowledge and don’t understand why it is a bad idea to discuss these things in a televised presidential debate.

Zap, there is an elephant in the room. You can choose to ignore it or you can engage in civilized, rational debate about it. Either way, the elephant is going no where.[/quote]

The giant grey one under the mission accomplished banner?

Sometimes the sheer number of elephants confuse me…

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Paul (and some of the posters here) are acting as if this is new knowledge and don’t understand why it is a bad idea to discuss these things in a televised presidential debate.

Zap, there is an elephant in the room. You can choose to ignore it or you can engage in civilized, rational debate about it. Either way, the elephant is going no where.[/quote]

What is the debate? Should we pull completely out of the middle east as the Islamists want?

[quote]Ren wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Ron Paul seems pretty clueless when he makes statements like he did in the debate as does Pat Buchanon.

Wait just a damn second, are you seriously telling me that when Rudy says to Paul “that is an absurd theory” he does not sound clueless? Mr 9/11 himself?

Oh come on Zap.

Everyone understands that we are a target for terrorists because of our policies.

No, not everyone does. Maybe in recent years since the Iraq war more people are starting to believe this, but after 9/11 and for a few years post that it was not the view.

"By a 51% to 38% margin, most Americans do not believe that “there is anything that the U.S. did wrong in its dealings with other countries that might have motivated the 9/11 terrorist attacks.” This is largely unchanged from how the public viewed this question in the weeks following the attacks themselves, nearly three years ago.

[/quote]

Probably because we had very good reason to oppose Saddam Hussien and station troops in Saudi Arabia among other things.

Have we done things to rile up the terrorists? Yes.

Are we wrong? No.

[quote]Ren wrote:

I for one like to know that an individual running for the President has a solid understanding of cause and effect and the nuances of our foreign policy. …[/quote]

Yet you do not extend the same courtesy to the President.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
What is the debate? Should we pull completely out of the middle east as the Islamists want?
[/quote]
Well, I have my own opinion about what should be done and most would probably disagree. First, I would start by distancing the US from relations with Israel until the Palestinian question has been seriously discussed.

Second, I’d close the majority of our military bases outside of the US and Europe. We don’t really need them there anyway.

Third, I’d push for more civilian contract security forces to be paid for by Iraq while concurrently reducing the number of uniformed military personnel in country (it might even get them serious about pumping their oil).

After paying the salary of US/European contractors for their own security maybe Iraq would start to get serious about their own situation. When the dollar signs start to accumulate people will wake up.

I would also find a way to pay for totally rebuilding Iraq to pre US invasion standards. That is really the only thing the US owes Iraq.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
What is the debate? Should we pull completely out of the middle east as the Islamists want?

Well, I have my own opinion about what should be done and most would probably disagree. First, I would start by distancing the US from relations with Israel until the Palestinian question has been seriously discussed.

Second, I’d close the majority of our military bases outside of the US and Europe. We don’t really need them there anyway.

Third, I’d push for more civilian contract security forces to be paid for by Iraq while concurrently reducing the number of uniformed military personnel in country (it might even get them serious about pumping their oil).

After paying the salary of US/European contractors for their own security maybe Iraq would start to get serious about their own situation. When the dollar signs start to accumulate people will wake up.

I would also find a way to pay for totally rebuilding Iraq to pre US invasion standards. That is really the only thing the US owes Iraq.[/quote]

Were you in the movie Pollyanna?

Meanwhile, tyrants/sociopaths would be sitting idly by during this transformation.

Great thinking, liftus.

JeffR

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Meanwhile, tyrants/sociopaths would be sitting idly by during this transformation.
[/quote]

…as they always have.