T Nation

First T Cycle Plan

Hi everyone. Title says most of it. A little background on myself:

29yrs old, 5’9", 208lbs, 18-23% BF depending on test (Army Tape Test < Calipers < BodPod)

Been lifting on and off since I was 14. Had several setbacks in terms of injuries and priorities, but I’m now consistent for about the last 9 months. Bench is stalling at 300lbs 1RM, always been my worst lift. Squat is currently 425lbs and DL is currently 455, but still moving.

I’m not particularly happy with where I’m at given the number of years I have in the iron game, and while I am looking to increase my strength I’m more concerned with leaning down some. I’m getting 250g of protein per day. Eat most of my carbs pre/post workout, which I don’t really regulate. As far as fat, I have no idea how much I eat but I do generally avoid fried and other fatty foods. Except mayonnaise. I love me some mayonnaise.

Basically I’m looking to get some extra help with leaning down and would also like to see my strength numbers, my bench in particular, move some too. I used to powerlift competitively in high school, changed my training significantly while I was in the Army because my endurance naturally sucks and I had to run my ass off to see any results, but now would like to revisit the idea of PL competition.

Would like to get to a lean 220lbs.

I’ve tried clen for weight loss before, with zero results. Tried phentermine too, which worked insanely good, but practically made my muscles fall off due to lack of food. My only brush with AAS was Dbol back in high school when I was younger and…stupider.

Enough about me, my proposed cycle is as follows:

W 1-10: Test-Enth 250mg/E3D
W 1-8: Anavar 50mg/ED
W 1-12: Armidex 0.25mg/EOD

W 13: Nolva 20mg 2XD
W 14-16: Nolva 20mg/ED

Thoughts?

Some pretty good stats there mate. Im in the same boat, was in the marines and lost everything I had gained at uni.

The above test cycle looks good, not to sure about the var tho, I have limited experience/knowledge with this compound so maybe someone can shed some light on this for you. Obviously you should make some good gains with a test e cycle which will obviously be ideal for powerlifting. As for cutting, Winny is always a good compound to use in order to maintain muscle mass while stripping body fat. I used it last year with some clen and saw some god results.

From a nutritional side of things are you taking carbs on bboard with your morning meal? I would recommend a slow release energy carb like oatmeal/grits, with a good amount of protein. I always find writing out a set meal plan helps cutting to as you can work out how many GS of carbs you need per lb of bodyweight to cut and this is easy to stick to.

Obviously you need to take into consideration your body type and metabolism, which only you know, if your not shifting bf, lower your carbs. I couldn’t work out why I wasnt shifting body fat until I cut my carbs almost in half and upped my cardio. Listen to your body.

Drink plenty of water too.

Hope this helps

AJ

Looks good to me…ever thought of adding in HCG during cycle too? Ive been seeing a lot of people recommend aromasin with nolvadex during PCT too recently…One thing I wish I would have done is bought aromasin instead of arimidex. It seems to have more recommendations, and positive effects as opposed to arimidex. Either or would be fine though. Im using arimidex on my cycle.

I havent really been using it though because I havent experienced any estrogen related sides, and I dont want to take away from my gains, even if some of it is water lol. Good luck though man, looks like a solid cycle for sure. Anavar sounds awesome, have never personally used it though

Looks good. I would drop the anavar. You will get your best gains from your first 2-3 test only cycles. I gained 30lbs with my my first two test only cycles at 500mg a week and kept 25 lbs. Eat clean to keep the water off…but still eat. Keep the protien at your body weight in grams a week min. I have used both aromasin and arimidex. I like arimidex at 12.5mg every 3-4 day. Just watch your body ie. gyno…take more if needed.
For PCT I would do Clomid at 50mg a day for 4 weeks starting 2 weeks after your last pin. Train hard and EAT clean.

Looks good keep the Var will keep collagen synthesis high and protect the tendons from being put under a ton of stress. Looks like it a pretty basic and good to go run. Personally I wouldn’t waste the money on HCG but that’s just me and Arimidex will be plenty.

[quote]Admad wrote:
Some pretty good stats there mate. Im in the same boat, was in the marines and lost everything I had gained at uni.

The above test cycle looks good, not to sure about the var tho, I have limited experience/knowledge with this compound so maybe someone can shed some light on this for you. Obviously you should make some good gains with a test e cycle which will obviously be ideal for powerlifting. As for cutting, Winny is always a good compound to use in order to maintain muscle mass while stripping body fat. I used it last year with some clen and saw some god results.

From a nutritional side of things are you taking carbs on bboard with your morning meal? I would recommend a slow release energy carb like oatmeal/grits, with a good amount of protein. I always find writing out a set meal plan helps cutting to as you can work out how many GS of carbs you need per lb of bodyweight to cut and this is easy to stick to.

Obviously you need to take into consideration your body type and metabolism, which only you know, if your not shifting bf, lower your carbs. I couldn’t work out why I wasnt shifting body fat until I cut my carbs almost in half and upped my cardio. Listen to your body.

Drink plenty of water too.

Hope this helps

AJ[/quote]

Thank you very much. About the var, while I was reading up on things I came across Anavar, which seemed like a good, mild compound to go with for cutting that doesn’t have the side effects of some of the stronger ones people traditionally use for cutting. Only thing is I here it’s expensive.

How was your experience with Winny as far as sides go?

I typically do a low to no carb breakfast on rest days and on workout days I take a preworkout shake with around 20g of carbs and some BCAAs.

Good call on the meal plan. I really do need to sit down and write things out so I know what I’m taking in and where I can make improvements. I have terrible self control when it comes to diet, especially when I don’t have a plan to follow.

[quote]CougarPride wrote:
Looks good to me…ever thought of adding in HCG during cycle too? Ive been seeing a lot of people recommend aromasin with nolvadex during PCT too recently…One thing I wish I would have done is bought aromasin instead of arimidex. It seems to have more recommendations, and positive effects as opposed to arimidex. Either or would be fine though. Im using arimidex on my cycle.

I havent really been using it though because I havent experienced any estrogen related sides, and I dont want to take away from my gains, even if some of it is water lol. Good luck though man, looks like a solid cycle for sure. Anavar sounds awesome, have never personally used it though [/quote]

Yes, I have considered HCG and still am actually. There are two recurring themes I keep reading about it regardless of the source, and that is 1) it makes recovery easier post-cycle, which sounds great, and 2) that it can be a bad thing if run for long durations due to possible loss of LH sensitivity. Not sure exactly how to implement this, but I will do more research.

I’ve read that about aromasin as well, but I’ve also read that arimidex is just fine for more conservative cycles like my own. You said you’re using adex currently?

[quote]ljohnso8 wrote:
Looks good. I would drop the anavar. You will get your best gains from your first 2-3 test only cycles. I gained 30lbs with my my first two test only cycles at 500mg a week and kept 25 lbs. Eat clean to keep the water off…but still eat. Keep the protien at your body weight in grams a week min. I have used both aromasin and arimidex. I like arimidex at 12.5mg every 3-4 day. Just watch your body ie. gyno…take more if needed.
For PCT I would do Clomid at 50mg a day for 4 weeks starting 2 weeks after your last pin. Train hard and EAT clean.[/quote]

Sounds like you made some awesome gains. Thanks for the advice. Any advantage to taking clomid over nolva?

I don’t know if water weight will be an issue for me. I’m on a diuretic blood pressure med which keeps me pretty damn dry, a little too dry.

[quote]Reed wrote:
Looks good keep the Var will keep collagen synthesis high and protect the tendons from being put under a ton of stress. Looks like it a pretty basic and good to go run. Personally I wouldn’t waste the money on HCG but that’s just me and Arimidex will be plenty.[/quote]

Thanks. Yeah, I could definitely use some joint help. One of the reasons I was attracted to Var in the first place. I wanted to avoid compounds like tren or deca because their side effect stories sound like a mixed bag, mild to terrible.

I have run hcg my last 2 cycles and won’t cycle with out it. Made recovery smooth. Its also keeps your nuts the same size which can be good for your self…(i know i freaked out a bit when I cycled the first time and they shrank)…I would run it at 250ui twice a week from week 3-10, at that does you won’t have to worry about losing LH sensitivity. Some guys like hcg generate over hcg it self as it more natural. I have never done it though. For your first cycle you should be good with out though.

The direct effects of clomiphene citrate (Clomid), tamoxifen, and estradiol (E2) on the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-stimulated release of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) were studied in cultured anterior pituitary cells…basically gets your nuts working on producing there own test…nova is more of an anti estrogen.

Firstly, Ive taken var-only ‘cycle’ a few years back when i was dumb. It is awesome. Your muscles will be stone hard and strength gains are excellent. The only badthing about var IMO is liver toxicity. (which isnt that bad)

However, If you’re trying to bulk, bulk. Don’t do this half ass bulk/cut/stay lean shit. Shoot some test, train hard, eat like a machine and gain some serious fucking poundage. The var will help def - I just think it is better used for a cutting cycle as it is expensive as hell for legit var.

[quote]ljohnso8 wrote:
I have run hcg my last 2 cycles and won’t cycle with out it. Made recovery smooth. Its also keeps your nuts the same size which can be good for your self…(i know i freaked out a bit when I cycled the first time and they shrank)…I would run it at 250ui twice a week from week 3-10, at that does you won’t have to worry about losing LH sensitivity. Some guys like hcg generate over hcg it self as it more natural. I have never done it though. For your first cycle you should be good with out though.
[/quote]

Great information. Thank you.

[quote]ljohnso8 wrote:
The direct effects of clomiphene citrate (Clomid), tamoxifen, and estradiol (E2) on the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-stimulated release of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) were studied in cultured anterior pituitary cells…basically gets your nuts working on producing there own test…nova is more of an anti estrogen.
[/quote]

Interesting. I’ve read though that by inhibiting estrogen at the hypothalamus, Nolva does in fact increase test production by reducing estrogen feedback and causing the release of GnRH. That sounds to me like exactly the mechanism Clomid acts on. And if I’m not mistaken, Nolva has a much stronger anti-e effect at the pituitary than Clomid.

[quote]Squige wrote:
Firstly, Ive taken var-only ‘cycle’ a few years back when i was dumb. It is awesome. Your muscles will be stone hard and strength gains are excellent. The only badthing about var IMO is liver toxicity. (which isnt that bad)

However, If you’re trying to bulk, bulk. Don’t do this half ass bulk/cut/stay lean shit. Shoot some test, train hard, eat like a machine and gain some serious fucking poundage. The var will help def - I just think it is better used for a cutting cycle as it is expensive as hell for legit var. [/quote]

This is great to hear from someone who has experience with the compound. I’m not looking to REALLY bulk here, so judging by your experience with Var, that is the one for me. Weighing 209 right now I have two options. Gain a few more quality pounds and lean down so I can be competitive at 220, or cut down and compete at 198.

Either way I want to get leaner and add a LOT of strength. I’m not trying to gain a ton of weight and get much over 220, because then I will have to cut weight to compete. And cutting weight sucks balls. I’ve bulked from 190 all the way to 220 natural in only a couple months before, granted it wasn’t quality weight. But I’m pretty sure I could be up above 240 or 250 in no time with some help in the T department, and I don’t want to even think about approaching that drastic of a weight change right now.

[quote]Juggs wrote:

[quote]ljohnso8 wrote:
The direct effects of clomiphene citrate (Clomid), tamoxifen, and estradiol (E2) on the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-stimulated release of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) were studied in cultured anterior pituitary cells…basically gets your nuts working on producing there own test…nova is more of an anti estrogen.
[/quote]

Interesting. I’ve read though that by inhibiting estrogen at the hypothalamus, Nolva does in fact increase test production by reducing estrogen feedback and causing the release of GnRH. That sounds to me like exactly the mechanism Clomid acts on. And if I’m not mistaken, Nolva has a much stronger anti-e effect at the pituitary than Clomid.
[/quote]

I have never used nolva. Only have experience with clomid and it has work great for me. It is what ever you prefer. You may have to try both and see what works best for you. I know a couple of friends that use nolva only as an anti-e during pct and clomid to help start back up.

Since your looking for lean and moderate gains have you thought of running primobolan/test. Primo has almost no side and wont put on water. Gains are slow but you will keep all your gains.
Cycle would be 500mg/250mg for 12 weeks. This is what my next cycle will be. I was able to get legit primo. It is very expensive but hopefully it will be worth it.

[quote]ljohnso8 wrote:
Since your looking for lean and moderate gains have you thought of running primobolan/test. Primo has almost no side and wont put on water. Gains are slow but you will keep all your gains.
Cycle would be 500mg/250mg for 12 weeks. This is what my next cycle will be. I was able to get legit primo. It is very expensive but hopefully it will be worth it. [/quote]

I haven’t thought about it, but I will look into it. Wonder how it stacks up to Var. I’ll do some comparison and go from there. Thanks for the tip.

[quote]ljohnso8 wrote:
I have never used nolva. Only have experience with clomid and it has work great for me. It is what ever you prefer. You may have to try both and see what works best for you. I know a couple of friends that use nolva only as an anti-e during pct and clomid to help start back up.[/quote]

I’ve come across a few other people who swear by clomid as well. Will definitely keep it in mind. Thank you.

[quote]ljohnso8 wrote:
Since your looking for lean and moderate gains have you thought of running primobolan/test. Primo has almost no side and wont put on water. Gains are slow but you will keep all your gains.
Cycle would be 500mg/250mg for 12 weeks. This is what my next cycle will be. I was able to get legit primo. It is very expensive but hopefully it will be worth it. [/quote]

So I read up on primo, and it sounds like a good alternative to Var as a mild cutting agent with rare/limited sides. Plus the oral version is not hepatoxic like many other orals. It seems some even prefer a test/var/primo stack. I want to keep it simple for my first cycle, but something to think about.