[quote]csulli wrote:
A different opinion does not entitle you to assume a position of superior knowledge.[/quote]
Actually, my difference in opinion IS based on a position of superior knowledge.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
http://www.library.spscc.ctc.edu/electronicreserve/bio113/rushton/TwoDeaths.pdf
[/quote]
2,4-DNP has historically been used as a herbicide and fungicide.
I guess maybe JB isn’t all that dumb…
[/quote]
I think maybe it’s more of an intermediary in the chemical production of herbicides. Even still, what difference does that really make? I mean the idea behind pointing out what shit it is used for is to show what a fucked up substance it is to put in your body. Being used in the manufacture of herbicides, being highly flammable, and being used to make fucking explosives are pretty good indicators that this shit is not the best for you.[/quote]
But…but…but…you can get shredded and you are just a fat powerlifter.
How sick will my abs look when I am dead[/quote]
What was it that Chris C said? “Death is a pretty catabolic state” or something like that.
[/quote]
Catabolic, catastrophic, cataleptic, and cataplectic.
I thought that the danger of DNP was that too much could cause an over activity of phosphorylation and destroy your mitochondria or some shit like that.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I thought that the danger of DNP was that too much could cause an over activity of phosphorylation and destroy your mitochondria or some shit like that.[/quote]
Phosphorylation is the addition of phosphates, e.g.:
ADP (2 phosphates) + Pi (phosphate) –phosphorylation → ATP (3 phosphates)
DNP attenuates the proton gradient necessary to drive this process, thus lowering the efficiency of the “—>” part.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I thought that the danger of DNP was that too much could cause an over activity of phosphorylation and destroy your mitochondria or some shit like that.[/quote]
Phosphorylation is the addition of phosphates, e.g.:
ADP (2 phosphates) + Pi (phosphate) –phosphorylation → ATP (3 phosphates)
DNP attenuates the proton gradient necessary to drive this process, thus lowering the efficiency of the “—>” part.[/quote]
Nothing but respect for your knowledge, but do you not find it a bit difficult to believe that ingesting a substance used to kill plants and other animals is safe for humans in ANY significant amount?[/quote]
are u just pretending to not get it…? or…
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Nothing but respect for your knowledge, but do you not find it a bit difficult to believe that ingesting a substance used to kill plants and other animals is safe for humans in ANY significant amount?[/quote]
are u just pretending to not get it…? or…[/quote]
Too much passive aggression on this forum. Come on now! Feel the test coursing through you and be direct with your insults! Or are you just pretending to behave like a petulant child?
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Nothing but respect for your knowledge, but do you not find it a bit difficult to believe that ingesting a substance used to kill plants and other animals is safe for humans in ANY significant amount?[/quote]
are u just pretending to not get it…? or…[/quote]
Or are you just pretending to behave like a petulant child?[/quote]
are u still going for irony?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Nothing but respect for your knowledge, but do you not find it a bit difficult to believe that ingesting a substance used to kill plants and other animals is safe for humans in ANY significant amount?[/quote]
“All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.”
Well, given that I’ve already mentioned various avenues of research where the uncoupling effects of DNP have been demonstrated to not just be safe, but BENEFICIAL… yes.
People seem to be getting caught up in the fact that DNP is used to kill plants and insects. To clear up any confusion some might have: plants and insects have mitochondria, just like we do, and they are susceptible to DNP’s uncoupling effects, just like we are.
These herbicidal/pesticidal applications deviate from our personal utilization based on the premise that we aren’t plants and insects and, as such, can regulate our exposure.
Here’s the deal, people:
In it’s first year on the market, DNP was estimated to be used by over 100,000 individuals in the United States per a report by Tainter (one of the pioneering researchers on the drug) et al. During this time, only THREE deaths attributed to DNP were reported: a physician who ingested 5g in an attempt at treating a syphilis infection, a girl who ingested 800mg and a psychiatric patient whose illness and death were reported to be “completely at variance” with the known effects of DNP. Treatment typically involved 300mg daily for three months, though other studies had people going as long as a year on lower dosages.
The paper also indicates that there is virtually no evidence that DNP causes any deleterious effects as far as the liver, kidney (one individual demonstrated elevated urea and albumin which returned to normal after stopping treatment; a result not seen in any previous studies on humans or animals), GI tract (besides minor GI distress), blood and circulation are concerned. Some patients developed a slight rash which was relieved up cessation; some resumed treatment without a recurrence (though many users today incorporate antihistamines into their protocol to obviate this).
So, yes… I DO feel that DNP is quite safe for humans in therapeutic amounts (much to the dismay of people who demonize it while cavalierly popping clen or T3), and I am quite confident I can convincingly argue this point against people who feel otherwise.
OK, so I know what’s coming next… if DNP really IS so safe, WHY was it taken off the market after only 5 years?
It has to do with an uproar resulting from the development of cataracts in a small group of individuals who took this drug.
DNP-induced cataracts are the result of a free radical known as semiquinone, which is an unusual metabolite of DNP. While most people are able to neutralize this via an enzyme known as NADPH-quinone reductase, which reduces the molecule to its quinol form, some individuals – about .1% of the population based upon what was observed while DNP was legal – have a compromised ability to neutralize this molecule.
This is why most recommend to taking MODERATE amounts of antioxidants while “on” (e.g., vitamin C, E, CoQ10, N-acetyl-cysteine, etc).
And, just to be clear, I CAN back up everything I am writing with published research going back to the early '30s.
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Nothing but respect for your knowledge, but do you not find it a bit difficult to believe that ingesting a substance used to kill plants and other animals is safe for humans in ANY significant amount?[/quote]
are u just pretending to not get it…? or…[/quote]
Or are you just pretending to behave like a petulant child?[/quote]
are u still going for irony?[/quote]
Yea kinda.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I thought that the danger of DNP was that too much could cause an over activity of phosphorylation and destroy your mitochondria or some shit like that.[/quote]
Phosphorylation is the addition of phosphates, e.g.:
ADP (2 phosphates) + Pi (phosphate) –phosphorylation → ATP (3 phosphates)
DNP attenuates the proton gradient necessary to drive this process, thus lowering the efficiency of the “—>” part.[/quote]
Nothing but respect for your knowledge, but do you not find it a bit difficult to believe that ingesting a substance used to kill plants and other animals is safe for humans in ANY significant amount?[/quote]
The chemistry is over my head, but I don’t think it is that easy to make comparisons.
If you briefly pass a torch over a plant it disrupts the capillary action and the plant dies. Do the same thing to a human and it hurts like a bitch but the human survives. Conversely if you torch a plant to the ground it will come back, a human not so much.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I thought that the danger of DNP was that too much could cause an over activity of phosphorylation and destroy your mitochondria or some shit like that.[/quote]
Phosphorylation is the addition of phosphates, e.g.:
ADP (2 phosphates) + Pi (phosphate) –phosphorylation → ATP (3 phosphates)
DNP attenuates the proton gradient necessary to drive this process, thus lowering the efficiency of the “—>” part.[/quote]
Nothing but respect for your knowledge, but do you not find it a bit difficult to believe that ingesting a substance used to kill plants and other animals is safe for humans in ANY significant amount?[/quote]
People still drink alcohol plenty and it is used to sterilize wounds. It kills living organisms, yet the majority of people have no problem with that.
Plus, almost all the plants you eat are treated with herbicides and pesticides. In fact, thanks to Monsanto, basically every product that has soy in it also have herbicides as those are now included genetically in US soy beans.
I know shit about DNP and which steroids to use and all that, but just because some chemical is used in one product that seems dangerous does not mean the chemical itself is dangerous. You need to look at the combination of chemicals, which reactions they create, and what the products are because more often than not it’s the products of those chemical reactions that are dangerous.
[quote]anonym wrote:
“All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.”
[/quote]
I’m sold, I’m going out right now to get me some DNP.
It gets fucking cold here in Scotland