So I’ve been on 180mg weekly since Jan 2021. Recently I’ve noticed my E2 continues to climb (see pic below) and within the past month or two I’ve been having god aweful heartburn and bloating, even on an empty stomach (I believe coffee is the issue on an empty stomach tho).
There are about 2 million conflicting studies/reports/clinical trials/etc. just curious if anyone else has:
There’s not nearly enough information here, excessive androgens can cause sodium reabsorption via the kidneys → fluid retention and bloating would be expected side effects.
I have never heard of high E-2 causing heart burn.
What are your Total T, Free T, hemoglobin and hematocrit?
Sorry about that, see below. T is high, switched to twice weekly injections 8 months ago and T has been above range ever since. Dr wanted to ride it out and see if it balances. Just seems strange that my total and free T are staying the same but e2 continues to climb.
Sodium reabsorption could be a culprit. I do believe lowering dose is in order.
I suppose there’s several moving pieces here, was just confused on the e2 being the only value that’s moved over the past year. Also BP is currently sitting at 118/70. When I got on trt it was 137/85 (was a former smoker)
It takes time for those high levels to affect the body, it doesn’t happen right away.
Your hormone levels are far too high for this to be TRT, which is a life long treatment. You need to dial back dosage considerably.
His testosterone levels are very good and not “far too high”. There is absolutely no harm in his testosterone levels being where they are in fact they could even be better if needed. No harm at all whatsoever. Every parameter of health will improve with those levels. In 2006 the normal range and some labs went up to 1593 ng/dL. It was healthy and normal then and now all of a sudden why do people like you say it’s dangerous and not TRT? Men with those levels and even better that have been on it for over a decade have had nothing but improvement in their health. Every parameter of health that you can measure has improved in these men. This fear of a number is not born out of what happens from a clinical standpoint. It’s an opinion not based on facts. In 2017 the normal range went up to 1197 ng/dL and now it’s 9/16. The reason is that men are not producing testosterone anymore due to the environmental toxins. So what was normal 30 years ago or even six years ago now appears supraphysiological and dangerous because men just don’t produce testosterone anymore like they used to.
Your testosterone levels are very good and when you have a very good testosterone levels you have very good estradiol levels because that’s how testosterone works through it’s active metabolites. As you raise testosterone you will raise it’s active metabolites DHT and estradiol because that’s where you get the benefits from testosterone. Just remember 99.99% of people that have bloating heartburn are not on testosterone. Every time you have a problem are you going to associate that problem with testosterone? Eat foods that don’t bloat you and quit drinking coffee on an empty stomach which will irritate the gastric lining and cause bloating. Quit thinking everything is testosterone and for that matter estradiol. And there are no conflicting studies. The studies are real clear that blocking estradiol decreases the benefits of testosterone and all the studies show me the benefits of testosterone they didn’t block estradiol. Testosterone works through its active metabolites which are DHT and estradiol. You raised testosterone levels and you’ll raise levels of it’s active metabolites because that’s how it works. The normal range of estradiol is not for men on testosterone.
Completely misleading and in your position you should know why.
Anyone walking around with natural TT/FT levels of 1300/30 ng/dl would be an outlier 30 years ago just like today once you understand calibrated ref ranges for TT/FT using LCMS+ED.
There would be nothing normal about those levels for 99.9%+ of men.
Fixed it for you.
Full disclosure: currently back up to 160 mg/week test cyp. TT and FT peak/trough way up there. Just not deluding myself to this is TRT.
I was getting deja vu but nope you just never learn.
Here you go. Sharing in good faith in case all this is still completely opaque…
Read a lot tell me how you don’t know what hormone optimization is without telling me you don’t know what hormone optimization is. I understand you with your medical problems and atrial fibrillation from utilizing anabolic steroids do you want men to have optimal testosterone levels. I think you’re threatened by men that have optimal levels. Men that havre levels between one and 2000 do wonderful and have no adverse effects long-term at all. In fact every parameter of health improves of those levels. Who said that we don’t want to be in the 1% of people with supraphysiologic levels because that’s where most of the health benefits are obtained with "supraphysiologic levels ". I know you’re afraid of those levels but now I’m doing this 20 years and seeing the benefits that men have with numbers that are outside the normal range along with hundreds of other providers that do the same we know the benefits it provides men. So you are of the woke testosterone replacement therapy. We want each man to be the best most healthy man that they can be. Who says you define what TRT is? Each man can choose where he wants his levels to be and how well he functions and how healthy he chooses to be. Once again before you get on your high horse I don’t aim for any specific level but I also do not disallow a man have a level of let’s say 1500 if every parameter of his health improves. Let me repeat every parameter of his health improves. And by the same token if a man feels great at the level of 700 and he’s happy and healthy then that’s his number. It is both an art and a science and we are treating the patient and their symptoms first and foremost and we’re not avoiding a number if that’s what it takes to resolve their symptoms and improve their health. So yes I will now refer to you as the woke TRT promoter. So I will treat each man individually and provide him with an optimal level to improve his health even if that number is “supraphysiologic”. I honestly think because you can’t tolerate an optimal level of testosterone due to your own health issues which started after taking anabolic steroids causing afib you don’t want other men to have healthy levels. You are so caught up in a number and so against a number outside the normal range. I’m so glad that you can’t treat men.
And lastly most importantly once again who says you define what TRT is or isn’t? It’s your opinion and everybody’s got one. Myself and others have a different opinion of what TRTS. We truly understand hormone optimization and that there is a dose response relationship and that the better the levels of hormones then the better the benefits. Who wants to be normal? Normal is not optimal. We will not restrain men from living their best most healthy life. We are not afraid of a number especially when we obtain a number where every parameter of their health improves. Once again every parameter of their health improves. If anything went backwards then we would lower the numbers or stop testosterone but it doesn’t happen. So yes you fear number and you have your own definition of TRT and that is your own personal right to have. Many of us just disagree with you and the woke TRT movement. So yes there is a dose that will improve symptoms and you would call that the minimal effective dose and that’s what you push. But there’s also a dose that will improve symptoms as well as maximize the benefits of testosterone. When I ask each what do you want the minimal effective dose to improve symptoms or do you want to improve symptoms as well as maximize the benefits of testosterone. 100% of them answer I want both.
Never determined what caused paroxysmal AFIB. Maybe it was the extra T3.
Sound familiar? Fortunately it is gone now, and I am fortunate the escitalopram really helped me with anxiety from the rough patch. Seems to help me tolerate higher Test dosing (which is not TRT but for performance and cosmetic use).
Use a paragraph break.
Read my post above.
As I stated I am running very high TT/FT levels right now. 1500 ng/dl + TT and 30 ng/dl FT.
Woke TRT LOL!
Thanks for your concern.
Yes it can’t be the anabolic steroids. Can’t be that even though they’re proven to do it but just couldn’t be that. Lol. So now you’re abusing testosterones yourself but yet you’ve spent years attacking others with your level saying that they’re unnecessary and that the providers were causing harm. Is that what you’re doing read a lot? My goodness how things have changed. By the way never do we prescribe testosterone for cosmetic or performance enhancement. Let me repeat never in fact we do not treat bodybuilders are those that utilize anabolic steroids in addition to testosterone.
Always try to be honest with yourself.
Supra TT/FT in your office?..TRT.
Supra TT/FT for readalot (honest admission that I dont need supra levels)?..abuse.
Ok. Everyone can do what they please. I just dont appreciate someone in your position murdering science to smokescreen your standard of care.
Revise. Not following.
What? You have no mercy for the body dysmorphic? Shameful. And I am woke?
ROFL.
The difference between us is I am honest with the folks.
Levels are too high imo.
But I agree the heartburn issue is likely not due to his supra levels.
Side note: most of us disagree with Carma. But its super important to not bite the guy’s head off. He adds an amazing perspective on a topic we’re ALL guinea pigs of.
In real life I keep telling myself I would happily buy him beverage of his choice. But then he is so shifty and condescending to AAS users/body dysmorphics/honest folks that then I wonder if it is good idea.
Take above as example…
Throw out poorly calibrated TT ref range to prove point. Ignore all other data in paper.
Once challenged then switch to Lake Wobegon defense where every man should be 6 sigma man.
Run where you want. Just be aware of risk.
I don’t like plausible deniability as a general philosophy from my medical provider.
But read a lot but you don’t have is any clinical experience. You have zero clinical experience with men. I have over 20 years of clinical experience with men. We see what supraphysiological levels do for men. Let’s define that by today’s standards and that is anything over 916 ng/dL…ridiculous. What you will never understand is that we treat men and their symptoms from a clinical standpoint and we monitor all their health parameters. So if they’re level is 1500 and everything improves are we supposed to lower those levels because men like read a lot think that they’re abusing testosterone? The point that I’m trying to make to you is that I treat middle-aged men and women. I do not treat bodybuilders or men that take testosterone purely for performance enhancement. There are plenty of clinics for those men that will also provide them with anabolic steroids as well. You’ve been there. If anybody even mentions they’re taking testosterone for performance enhancement purposes I will refer them to another clinic. Now that doesn’t mean that all the men that I treat don’t get the benefits of testosterone including the performance enhancement benefits because I can’t tweeze out the benefits in performance enhancement from all the other benefits it provides these men. It’s about what their priority is and the people that I treat their priority is regaining their quality of life. Men talk about they want a physician that will listen to their symptoms and treat them instead of just treating a number. But it seems that some of the same men only believe what they’re saying to a certain point. They have this fear of a super physiologic number and this fear is not based on reality. Let me repeat there is no harm in having a testosterone level of 1500 for instance. None at all. Read a lot you cannot understand horman optimization and you have proven that over and over again. Read a lot you are of the Woke TRT movement.
Thats your opinion. You’re welcome to it. Data doesn’t support your opinion, but its ok to be wrong.
BS like this is a little bit scary though.
You know better than to spin something like this. @readalot has already dived into why this is an apples and orange comparison.
Thats a theory spouted by some. It may or may not be accurate and all the studies I have read do theorize a generational decline. Its not to the marked degree you are spouting though.
You’re right everyone can have a different perspective. But myself and my colleagues have decades of experience and treating men. In most men it takes a supra physiologic levels (>916ng/dl) to maximize health and resolve symptoms. One thing that you don’t see Roscoe is my patients on these or other forums complaining bitching and moaning that they don’t feel better.
You really sound like a pill mill practitioner with statements like these. I bet you made a lot of money in the ole Oxy days. “Still got pain… take more” I mean something will eventually mask the issues right?
Read a lot this will be my last post once again I’ll get away from forums for another couple of months. You absolutely know nothing from a clinical standpoint and it is blatantly obvious to anyone that does. So you’re going to deny over 20 years of patient data and improvement and state that it didn’t occur? You’re calling BS when I have the data to prove it? You are so woke it’s pathetic. You are dangerous for forums because you have a problem with men being men. You are afraid of a number and that number doesn’t cause harm. You can’t show that it’s ever caused harm. There are plenty of studies showing the dose response relationship with testosterone and the lack of harm. You obviously have not spent any time at all studying endocrine disrupting chemicals but I’ve spent the last decade doing it. I could probably send you 300 studies right now to dispel what you just wrote. But you’re not worth my time you never have been. I’ll just refer you to the Endocrine society website which has a whole section on EDCs. What is ETCs are doing to men’s sperm counts and testosterone levels is no longer a theory. It has been proven. You just haven’t taken the time to look. I think it’s so funny for men to comment like you have that haven’t spent any time studying what we’re talking about and I’ve spent well over a decade researching.
I’ll leave you to your woke TRT and woke advice to these men
You are responding to Brother @blshaw.
Why am I not worth it? Was about to respond to your last response to me. I think we could get some where here if we work through the logic above.
Please stay and we can continue discussing. I would like to make a truce. Life is short.
