T Nation

Durak's TRT Log


#1

Durak's TRT Log
Putting all this down and updating because as we all know TRT is a art not a science. Every stinkin Dr says something different and we are our best resource for information. Feel free to ask questions or make comments via replies or private message or email duraktrt at gmail.

Feburary 2010
Symptoms: Tired all the time, concentration poor even with ADD medication, loss of strength, low stamina, low constitution, less decisive in interactions, avoid confrontations (big change)...

Started TRT via anti-aging clinic in Florida
Age = 33
Ht = 5'10
BF = 16 - 18 percent
TRIGLYCERIDES 106 <150 mg/dl
CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL 229 <200 mg/dl
HDL CHOLESTEROL 33 >40 mg/dl
LDL CHOLESTEROL, calc. 175 <100 mg/dl
CHOL/HDL RATIO 6.9 <5.0
HOMOCYSTEINE 12.0 4.5 - 15.0 umol/L

T3, TOTAL 109.0 80 - 200 ng/dl
T4, FREE 1.50 0.9 - 1.7 ng/dl
TSH 2.320 0.27 - 4.2 uIU/ml

LH 2.7 1.7 - 8.6 mIU/ml
FSH 4.4 1.5 - 12.4 mIU/ml
DHEA-SULFATE 354.2 160 - 449 ug/dl
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 240 280 - 800 ng/dl
SEX HORMONE BIND GLOBULIN 29 10 - 80 nmol/L
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 2.90 2.4 - 12.2 ng/dl
CORTISOL 13.1

Vitamin D,25-OH,Total 19 >30 ng/ml

Protocol - Cycle with PCT (either 10 or 20 wk then rense and repeat) Everything has to be bought as package from compound pharmacy no substitutes.

Cycle
(Tried to get me to take 400mg of cyp and 200mg of deca but I thought that was too much)
200mg cypionate wk
20mg tamox wk
.75 anastrozol 2xwk

PCT
- HCG (don't remember dose)
- Clomid (don't remember dose)

March 2010

Most symptoms improved. Since of clarity and well being back to where I remember it in the ealry 20's. ADD symptoms almost gone, not even taking that medication anymore.

After 6 weeks on TRT I started getting sore/perky nipps so I started searching for answers. This search ended with changing clinics and protocols.

In an attempt to deal with E2 issues I started 40mg of tamox daily and stayed on anastrozol. Within 5 days I bloated up so bad i could not easily close my left hand and could not wear my wedding ring. Stopped the protocol of tamox and anastrozol. No idea why this happened.

Gained 15lbs during this week but only 2% increase in bf. So lots of water.

April 2010

New protocol with new clinic (mail order only). This clinic does not force me to take take anything. Everything is decided via consult and ends with what I am comfortable with. Not to mention they provided me with a price list up front! No suprises!

Protocol (ongoing no PCT and consult given even for products purchased via other sources)

300mg of cypionate wk (150mg 2x wk)
250 iu 2x wk (instead of in pct)
12.5 mg of exemstane eod (may go to ed) from ar-r (replaced anastrozol)
25-50mcg of T3 daily from ar-r (new)
20-100 mcg of Clen from ar-r (new)
(may switch to 200/200 of cyp/deca)

Ordered blood test kit for Total T and E2 from lab talked about in forum. These results will be posted when I get them.

Mid April
Some changes based upon further research. Also found a Dr willing to prescribe everything I need at a regular pharmacy except other tests than cypionate. Blood test for T and E2 will be back soon. Getting full panels done end of month.

Testosterone
Cypionate
reduced to 200mg per wk (100mg 2 x wk)
- felt the cyp was too high (was 400 then 300). I am not working out and really don't want to put on lots of muscle

Fertility
HCG
250ui eod instead of 2 x wk
- further research and member input caused the increase.

Anti-E
Aromasin
reduced to 5mg ed from 12.5 mg eod and changed from ar-r stane
- working well but Dr prescribing at regular pharmacy

Weight loss and additional energy
Cytomel
Changed from ar-r t3 to cytomel 50mcg tablet ed
- Dr willing to prescribe at regular pharmacy

Metformin Xr
Added for reduced food cravings and increased weight loss

Topamax
Added 25-50mg every night at Dr suggestion to reduce sleep eating

Clen
Removed Clen
- Too many factors right now.

to do
Vitamin D levels too low
cholesterol too high
HDL too low

Next Cycle
Removed deca and going with 200mg cyp wk/ 50mg anavar ed plus the HCG, Cytomel, Metformin, and Aromasin
- when bf = 12% I will stop cytomel, metformin and maybe Aromasin but continue Topamax

Anyone feel free to contact me at duraktrt at gmail if you have any questions or thoughts.


#2

Aromasin works.... lets see the labs. E2 needs to be in lower 20's to also facilitate weight loss.

TRT often lowers total cholesterol.

These TRT starting doses are insane.

Improve cell wall permeability with fish oil and other EFAs. Improve mitochondrial burning of lipids with acetyl-l-carnitine and lipoic acid. Also need anti-oxidants.


#3

Lol.... The TRT starting doses were insane... I don't even work out and do not really plan to. At most I am swimming 3 x wk. In a phd program and study 7 days a week.

I actually came to this board because I heard you were very helpful KSman. Thanks for already responding. One question I can never get answered to my satisfaction is: Why do so many choose adex over aromasin? From what I see aromasin looks to be better. Can you point me in the right direction via comments or even a link to information?


#4

Aromasin is a irreversible type I aromatase inhibitor steroidal drug and as a steroid hormone it will be transported to the cell nuclei and can have unintended gene expression side effects. These side effects will be noticed or evident in some and not noticed in others. Aromasin is close enough to T to jamb up aromatase reaction sites. Can it block T receptors as well. Progestins are not progesterone. Progestins alter gene expression and there are minor side effects like endothelial dysfunction leading to blood clots, strokes and heart attacks. Cool stuff!

You can take 175mg of Aromasin per week or 1mg of anastrozole. That is 174mg less material for unwanted effects. Anastrozole dosing is very well understood. Anastrozole is also widely used as a RC chemical and is vastly less costly than RC aromasin. I have had one one guy who found that aromasin simply was not effective and 1mg/week anastrozole did exactly what was needed. Another perspective is that 60ml RC adex will last 60 weeks and aromasin will last 60 days.

Anastrozole and femara are non-steroidal, aka type II, aromatase inhibitors. Type II AI drugs do not seem to have any side effects other than the effects from taking too much, and then the effects are from crashed estrogen levels, not the AI.

The fact that aromasin is a non reversible aromatase inhibitor does not seem to have any really merit of any sort compared to good old competitive aromatase inhibitor anastrozole. There is nothing that aromasin does that is of any advantage over anastrozole. The hype about aromasin is nothing but hype.


#5

So if both adex and aromasin were on the table in front of you and you could take either at no cost, which would you choose?


#6

Adex, because the dose-response is well understood [for normal responders*]. And when you do lab work, one can easily calculate the new dose to achieve the desired target serum E2 level. That is possible as a result if its action as a competitive drug. Adex always works.

Adex over-responders/hyper-responders are easily managed once the situation is recognized.

Avoiding 174mg/week of a steroidal hormone drug [aromasin] is very compelling from the point of view of liver loading and side effects. Personally, I do not want 174mg of side effects.