Does Estrogen Make Me Fat? What about Fertility?

This attachment has tons of ALPHA on E. From obesity to diabetes, fertility and etc, you will find that Estrogen, not Free T, DHT is what they highlight as the reason for fat loss, and fertility and so much more.

Areas of interest with snippets below.
(page 300-303)

Only over the past few years have clinical intervention studies begun to confirm preclinical evidence that estradiol contributes to body weight regulation and meta- bolic health in men. One small study examined the effects of testosterone replace- ment in obese men with low-normal baseline serum testosterone concentrations. Whereas treatment with testosterone gel led to significant reductions in adiposity, these changes were not seen when testosterone was co-administered with an aroma- tase inhibitor (Juang et al. 2014). In a larger study of healthy men, two subject cohorts were administered the GnRH analogue goserelin acetate to suppress endog- enous sex steroid production. Simultaneously, subjects in the first cohort received either placebo gel or variable doses of add-back testosterone gel, and the second cohort of subjects received either placebo gel or testosterone gel with an aromatase inhibitor. Strikingly, whereas androgen exposure appeared to mediate changes in lean mass, estradiol rather than testosterone was found to be the primary determi- nant of changes in fat mass (Finkelstein et al. 2013). Subsequently, another clinical study similarly enrolled healthy, eugonadal men and rendered them medically cas- trate through use of the GnRH antagonist acyline. Subjects in this study variably received placebo gel, low-dose or full replacement dose testosterone gel, or full replacement dose testosterone gel with an aromatase inhibitor. In all three treatment groups rendered sex steroid deficient, significant increases in body fat mass were evident within only 4 weeks of drug treatment (Chao et al. 2016). Again, estradiol rather than testosterone deprivation exhibited a stronger correlation with the observed increases in adiposity.

Page 303

Another population for whom the metabolic effects of estradiol could prove highly relevant are men with prostate cancer. In the USA, prostate cancer affects 2 million men, and up to 50% of these men will undergo androgen deprivation therapy (ADT) at some point in their treatment course (Meng et al. 2002). The most com- mon form of ADT involves GnRH analogues that confer central hypogonadism, and over the past decade, clinical evidence has compellingly demonstrated the men undergoing ADT are at substantially higher risk of increased adiposity, insulin resis- tance, T2DM, and cardiovascular disease than age-matched controls with or without prostate cancer

Finally, as efforts continue to develop an effective form of hormonal contracep- tion for men (Ayoub et al. 2016; Zitzmann et al. 2017), these findings collectively underscore the need to carefully assess changes in estradiol exposure consequent to different contraceptive regimens. Thus, mounting evidence suggests that estradiol replacement is a pivotal facet of the treatment of male hypogonadism and, by corol- lary, states of estradiol deprivation – whether consequent to physiologic hypogo- nadism, androgen deprivation therapy, or hormonal forms of contraception – must be avoided as possible to optimize metabolic health in men.

Sex and Gender Factors Affecting Metabolic Homeostasis, Diabetes and Obesity

I don’t think anyone is arguing against this … I am guessing their AI dose was 1mg daily? And what was the gel dose? TT/e2 levels of both groups? Did they test a low TT/high e2 group? (That would be interesting; all you need to do is increase e2 to lose weight independent of TT levels? Is that part of what they did with that last gel study?).

I think this is just going to re-enforce that SOME e2 is better than NO e2 for fat loss (among other things).

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Really not sure. They probably have more details on the studies their references in that section.

The problem with an AI is that we don’t know where it’s blocking E.

It’s a big question mark and that’s why I always tell people it’s dangerous.

If they took an AI and knew it wouldn’t effect the Aromotase in the bones, heart , brain it wouldn’t be a big deal.

Instead we do not know.

The inverse is true as well. If someone takes a small dose, out of fear; they might not ever realize the benefits …

When this is realized. One finds a dose that is optimal and symptoms are relieved.

Instead I see many on the forums lowering their doses in hopes of finding relief. Many wait a few weeks or a couple months and change their dose.

It takes many months for the body to adopt the new influx of hormones . This is not organic growth or increase of T…

These studies should help people realize that they are playing with fire when using an AI.

The literature supports these beliefs. That’s all I have hoped people would realize.

Instead many want to argue from a stance of confirmation bias, and neglect the facts.

I hope they hell new men on trt and enjoy their new found life like have. Thanks to guys like my doc…

Not the two I used before him.

Every bodybuilder uses an AI at least pre-contest. If an AI stopped you from losing fat, when the one job they have is to come in lean and dry, they wouldn’t do it. Not rocket science.

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Seriously? Did you just compared trt doses to people who take 20x what we take? Including a dozen other anabolics and hormones and thyroid and shit.

Guys who are having heart attacks and strokes left and right due to the way they use steroids and etc?

Stan efferdin, Arnold, many of the older body builders did not use ai. They used very little T and others versus today.

That was a horrible comparison. Why are you even arguing this subject if you have no clue ?

If the argument is that an AI will prevent you from losing fat than you are refuted by yes all those dudes who take a ton of other stuff but also take an AI and need to get to 3-4 percent body fat in order to win competitions. Again, not rocket science here.

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Nope.

You guys just need to stop this, please.

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No we don’t know. You know what what else we do not know? If it even matters at all where the blocking of aromatase takes. Like seriously does it? If you have circulating E2 and it gets up taken by all tissue as normal because there is no blocking of receptors, does it matter???

Let’s say all the amortization was blocked in the liver, but E2 wasn’t crashed, and the liver has more than enough supply of E2 in the blood. Arguing hypothesis with hypothesis here as clearly this is a big arguing shtick that has no sound clinical foundation.

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Yes to strip water, not to burn fat. They’re on fat burners and thyroid meds to do that.

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Trying to understand… So Estrogen deficiency lead to increases in fat mass during these tests? was there a counter-study run where Estrogen surplus lead to decreased fat mass?

I feel like the crowd has gone back and forth so much on estrogen that it still isn’t settled. too much e2 is bad; too little e2 is bad - so where does one go? is there an Estrogen Optimization?

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There was a guy on here a few years back that may have done an experiment on this. He was proposing using an AI to crash E2, and supplement E2 exogenously at different dosages.

I thought it sounded like creating a problem for a solution type of thing.

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When you read about Estrogen. Actual medical literature ( I have posted some ), you’ll find that estrogen is the hormone that produces majority of benefits we get from TRT.

E is what creates libido, cardio vascular health, helps in development of muscles, and bone health, and so many more.

Woman and men have the same organs, bones and etc… there just a diff makeup of hormones and sex organs.

You don’t control E or dht. Don’t lower it. Don’t increase it.

Because when you realize how important and vital it is to our health, one will shy away out of fear that this will cause some serious problems to our health.

This means we just manage the dose or frequency until we feel well.

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Don’t we though? It’s systemic, at least for Anastrozole, and blocks e2 wherever it finds AE floating around. I don’t think there’s any tissue preference for it, that I’ve seen anyway.

Can we see how much AE is in different tissues? That would be cool to know.

Body composition parameters

In all treatment groups, body weight remained stable over the 4-week study intervention ([Supplemental Table 1]. However, significant differences were observed across groups in the change in fat mass over time (P = .003 in overall RM-ANOVA; [Figure 3A]. Post-hoc analyses demonstrated significant increases in fat mass within the Castrate group between baseline and week 4 (+1.1 ± 0.8 kg; P = .004). Smaller increments in fat mass were evident in the Low T/E and Normal T/Low E groups (+0.7 ± 0.8 kg and +0.5 ± 0.8 kg, respectively), although these changes did not reach statistical significance after correction for multiple comparisons. No change in fat mass was seen in the Normal T/E group (−0.4 ± 1.0 kg; P = not significant). Significant differences in fat mass similarly were evident when expressed as a percentage of total body mass (P < .0001 in overall RM-ANOVA, [Supplemental Figure 3A].

Significant differences also were seen in lean mass across treatment groups (P = .03 in overall RM-ANOVA for baseline and week 4; [Figure 3B](javascript:;)). In post-hoc analyses, decreases in lean mass between baseline and week 4 were significant in the Castrate group (−1.2 ± 1.0 kg; P = .003) and evident uniformly across subjects in this group. A significant decline in lean mass also was seen in the Low T/E group (−1.4 ± 1.5 kg; P = .01). Lean mass was unchanged in the Normal T/E and Normal T/Low E groups. Differences in lean mass expressed as a percentage of total body mass similarly were apparent among the treatment groups (P < .0001 in overall RM-ANOVA, [Supplemental Figure 3B].

Only intra-group comparison that was significant was in the castrate group with respect to fat mass. FYI.

Hence:

Not quite. Not your fault though, even book authors don’t read the studies they cite sometimes.

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No we don’t. Unless you take a massive dose and stop all of it from occurring.

Inject it or pills, and it flows through the blood stream, this is not something the body created naturally. Where does it do its job per person?

If we don’t know, we are playing with fire … maybe we have zero side effects for years. And then one day it bites us in the ass and we realize we have osteoporosis at 50 years old. Heart attack. High cholesterol…

Even if it’s spread evenly, that means it’s going to the bones, brain, heart, endothelial lining, and every other area of the body that needs E.

All that my research has shown me is that E is vital. It’s found everywhere… helps a multitude of factors for our health and well being…

Recently a doctor started to plan T pellets into women breats where the breast cancer is found. It’s killing and healing woman.

Men take T and their diabetes starts to disappear. More than one doctor has mentioned this. One tried to release a report about this and discussed it on these boards or maybe it was facebag. He was afraid they would come after him for showing the world they might be able to find a solution.

going down a Long path here sorry :rofl:.

I am actually quite surprised every time I read and learn more.

Just a few months ago researchers found that aromotase in the Brian is what causes men to desire / have libido.

What if AI enters that area of the Brain and that’s why so many have issues with libido when they mess with E?

What if I don’t take enough T. Will it produce a full set of benefits from lowering fat, cholesterol, BP, and etc etc

It’s obvious E is one of the most important hormone for adult men. When will the TRT community realize this and stop treating anti AI people like they are selling snake oil.

Anyways that’s all.

Man you have literally…. Not once agreed or confirmed not one topic.

We aren’t looking at one study and saying this is why it’s true.

You are always looking for something to refute . You are still a know it all.

If I told you that the earth is round, you would find studies and charts that say I’m wrong.

There’s no point in discussing this w you.

This study a little more convincing but in the limit of higher TT the effect of E2 suppression really doesn’t matter as much (panel D doesn’t stand out p-value wise):

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa1206168

Thanks for sharing the link above. However, the google drive link may be violating copyright law. You are sharing the whole book.

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So what does this mean when undergoing TRT if someone’s estrogen starts creating problems? I agree with not messing with e2 as much as possible, but is there an extent to which you find it necessary to down-regulate? I imagine this to be when high e2 symptoms occur

Everyone likes to blame estrogen. Give it time. Micro dose. Change frequency. But give it time.

Or lower the dose and slowly increase it if sensitive nipples, water Retention or anxiety are that bad.

I dealt with these symptoms for a month or two and they never came back.

A new dose of hormones is something the body is not used to. Expect symptoms … but they are nothing most cannot deal with after being low t for a long time.

It’s just too important of a hormone to manipulate.

Managing dose and frequency and having patience work for those who don’t focus on every ache and pain.

Otherwise they play with fire. Which is ok with me.

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Yep I’d agree with that