T Nation

Cutting up!!

First of all let me say WOW these boards are a fountain of info. Of course I am a newbie to the world of supplements and steriods. First of all I am 26 6’4 230lbs with 20%. I was in the army for 8 years and my ideal weight while I was in was 205 at 10%. I have been out of the service now for about 2 years and my lazy ass got fat. Have a recently been turned onto going back to the gym and now I am hooked. My friend introduced me to biotest and to tribex and Grow! My questions are these: 1. Before I want to concientraite on getting big I need to lose this fat. Right now I am on a Chicken/Turkey breast and rice diet I eat between 5 and 6 times a day plus (now that I am typing this in this kinda sounds stupid) I make a shake three times a day from the low carb grow mix. In the shake I mix in a banana and oatmeal. 4 days a week I do cardio/fat burning for an hour and then 4 days on 2 days off I do my weight routine. What do I need to change/add/stop…whatever to maximise weight loss?

And what percentage of BF should I be at before I should even think about before I should even start to think about getting big and using other supplements such as steroids in acheiving these gains.

I would definatly love to become part of this community. And let everyone know my progress (like you need to hear another newbie say this). Any help or advice you can give I would greatly appreciate it.

First, welcome aboard. You’ve come to the right place. I wanted to comment on the carb choices of your “cutting diet”. I’m currently cutting also and from my experience, I’ve had best luck by keeping carbs low (definately less than 100 g/day). You didn’t say how many grams of carbs a day you’re eating. Secondly, I believe the glycemic index (GI) of carbs very important to successfully manipulate carbs in either cutting or bulking diet. High GI carbs are absorbed rapidly and spike insulin and as such are ideal immediately after work out to replenish glycogen and drive aminos into the muscle to begin recovery but high GI at other times will, at the worse, cause fat storage due to excessive insulin and at best impedes fat burning as insulin prevents release of stored fat (insulin is a storage homone and as such is the opposite of fat burning). Other than after WO, carb choices should be low GI to trickle the carbs into your blood and manage insulin levels to promote fat burning. That all said, I was wondering about your choice of rice for carbs. The GI of rice depends on the type of rice but if it’s white rice, thats fairly high GI and would be best as a post WO carb choice only. Also, with respect to the carb choices in your Grow, banana is fairly high GI as is most fruit and though oatmeal is normally a very good choice, if you’re throwing the oatmeal in the blender and pulverizing it, the resulting oatmeal “flour” has a much higher rate of digestion and resulting GI than regualar oatmeal. If you’re making regular oatmeal and then adding Grow to your bowl of oatmeal, that would be good but the more highly processed a carb, the higher the GI so don’t turn your oatmeal to powder in the blender. For complete nutrition and diet info, do a search on the Mag and read everything you can that was written by Berardi in the previous issues. As to your question at what BF% to start bulking, IMO, anything below 10% would be good depending on your genetics and how lean your body tends toward. Some are naturally leaner than others but somewhere less than 10% should be a goal. Good luck.

Miko: Congratulations on getting back into the gym, and “Welcome To The Neighborhood!” Like any “family”, these guys can be your best friends or your worst enemies. But you’ll find the best info on the net right here. Now…my recommendations:

1)First of all; a diet has to not only “look and sound” clean, it must a)BE clean and b)be specific to your weight and goals. The FIRST thing you need to do his calculate EXACTLY what you’re eating in terms of kcals, macronutrient ratios and types of macros. If you don’t, you are “shooting in the dark” in terms of whether your diet will help, or hinder, you reaching your goals. Hey…if you don’t know where you are, it will be VERY hard to know where you’re going.

Yea, yea, yea…I know a lot of people will say “keep it simple…just eat big and eat often, baabeee!”. However…it sounds like you may be a little like me, with a tendency toward putting on fat. You probably can’t afford to be so non-chalant.

2)Don’t evey THINK about the juice. If that’s where you’re going, I ain’t the guy to give you advice.

3)In all that I’ve read (especially John Berardi), you would like to be at a max BF percentage of say 15-20%(MAX)…ideal about 12-15% to start a true “bulking” phase. You will put on SOME fat when bulking, so you want to give yourself some leeway.There are some on the site who have advocated the 10-12% range as your “bulking phase range”. See how you look and respond. However…you DON’T have to become a “lardass” to put on muscle. Read the thread “Maintaining Body Fat Percentages” (1/3/2002)for a through discussion on this topic. Just put it in the search engine.

4)Read and digest the following articles until ya’ can’t read no 'mo!:

"The Diet Manifesto”, "Massive Eating”, “The Missing Ingredient”, “Foods That Make You Look Good Nekkid” and the “Appetite For Construction” series of articles, (beginniing with 1&II as your foundation. These are all found on this site). These article will get you started on the right track and will put you ahead of 99% of the people in your gym. THEN:

5)Think basic, heavy movements. Don’t get fancy and foo-foo. Again…keep it basic. Keep it heavy. Keep it real, baby! Also read “The Beginner’s Blast Off Program” and “The Dawg School” series of articles.

Once you’ve digested all this info, the guys on this site can help clear up any confusion you may have. Hope this helps!

Heb: I’m glad to hear to say “less than 10%” on the BF percentage starting point. (I fudged a little bit with Miko, feeling that such a level would be sort of “impractical?” to start with?

However…as I remember (I think it may have been Bob or Kelly or even JB), start somewhere at less than 10% (like you said), and don’t go above 12% or so. So…I agree with you…Thanks!

Mufasa - Great advice to Miko - very thorough response. In regards to BF%, I find I tend to be “stronger” and have better WO’s at 10-12% BF but like the way my abs look at <10% (especially 6-8%). One of the reasons, I think, that I tend to feel better at 10-12% may be my age (almost 45). I went through several bulking cycles last fall including 2 Mag-10 cycles and I got calories a little to high I believe, that and the fact that I tore my biceps tendon as you may have read on previous posts and had to do a “lay off”. Anyway, I ended up a little “fatter” than I intended at 15% but am currently cutting and am down to 8% in week 9 and my abs are lookin good (see my posts in “gettting ripped support group”). I’m shooting for 6% and hope to be healed enough by May to do a couple Mag-10 cycles then but try and stay under 10% for the summer. Keep up the good advice.

concientraite…haha, classic…