T Nation

Critique Athlete Cycle

What’s up guys
I’m about to go for a somewhat short cycle in a few days.
My goal is to gain more strength and boost muscle recovery and leave the cycle with some lean mass to boot.

My diet now is 40-30-30 (prot-carb-fat). On the cycle I will switch to 40-25-35 for more anabolic effect. I want to minimize water retention and fat gains as much as possible.

My regiment looks similar to ABBH except I will include big power movements and sprint drills on some leg days.
Here is my cycle (6 weeks)
weeks 1-2/ 50mg drol a day + 50mg winnie a day
week 3-4/ 50mg tren+drol+winnie
week 5-6/ 50mg winnie eod + Alpha Male +100mg clomid a day
let me know what you think

On what gustojack wrote:

Questions…

Why are you taking clomid the last 2 weeks of the cycle and not the 2 weeks after the cycle?

What liver protectors are you using during this cycle?

Have you thought about throwing in HCG during your PCT?

What kind of tren are you using?

sprinter,

why would he throw HCG in PCT? It’s suppressive.

That length is not long enough for tren.

I do second the liver support, with anadrol in mind.

IMHO

I actually meant run it during the cycle, didn’t mean to type PCT. As for HCG being suppresive, I didn’t realize that. I thought it increased production of test? I figured since he is running anadrol his test production would be quite supressed and thought HCG was used to help keep it going during cycles. If I am mistaken please let me know before I give anymore bad advice, or take myself up on my own bad advice, lol.

[quote]SprinterOne wrote:
On what gustojack wrote:

Questions…

Why are you taking clomid the last 2 weeks of the cycle and not the 2 weeks after the cycle?

What liver protectors are you using during this cycle?

Have you thought about throwing in HCG during your PCT?

What kind of tren are you using?[/quote]

I actually debated on whether taking clomid afterwards or during the final weeks. I am leaning more towards the duration final weeks because it is known to help with reducing water gains and stabilizing the lean mass gain for the cycle. The sacrifice would be optimal lean mass (I may be cutting myself short).

Liver protectors…milk thistle and eating seafood for omega -3 and astaxanthin. Other than that I seriously doubt if this short cycle will cause damage to my liver.
HCG maybe added later…I don’t think I will need the extra boost of LH to get “my boys” back up to speed
I will be using injectable tren acetate

[quote]ubiquitous wrote:
That length is not long enough for tren.

I do second the liver support, with anadrol in mind.

IMHO[/quote]

The tren is only being used as a sort of “booster” for the cycle. However I will go back into my research and consider seriously adding time with the tren.

HCG is best used for long cycles where avoiding testicular atrophy is the goal. It mimics LH, bringing your boys back to size, and some say helps avoid the overall crash going into PCT. But, shouldn’t be used DURING PCT as it itself is supressive and over a period of time, with sufficient dose, can actually desensitize the leydig.

Clomid is used during PCT to raise test levels through negative feedback. It is an anti-estrogen, like Nolva… but most prefer to use Nolva concurrent with AAS when gyno is the concern. Your idea to use Alpha Male and clomid is a good one, only during the weeks following your last dose of AAS. To use concurrent with AAS isn’t so beneficial.

Some are fans of quick cycles such as yours, and they are best suited to give you advice on dosing and synergy. I just really wanted to jump in and say what I had to say about HCG and your choice to run Clomid during.

good luck
peace

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[quote]ubiquitous wrote:
Clomid is used during PCT to raise test levels through negative feedback. It is an anti-estrogen, like Nolva… but most prefer to use Nolva concurrent with AAS when gyno is the concern. Your idea to use Alpha Male and clomid is a good one, only during the weeks following your last dose of AAS. To use concurrent with AAS isn’t so beneficial.

Some are fans of quick cycles such as yours, and they are best suited to give you advice on dosing and synergy. I just really wanted to jump in and say what I had to say about HCG and your choice to run Clomid during.

good luck
peace [/quote]

Hey first off I like to thank you guys for chiming in. I needed some opinions like these to really make me check over my designed cycle again.

Clomid during the cycle seems to really be looked down upon. Here’s my reason for doing it. Clomid will not be able to do anything for inhibition during the heavy stage of the cycle, but in the later weeks it will help to reduce bloating and high estrogen levels. Also it has not been proven to help with pct that early on, but the only downfall would be not getting the full potential out of the stack mass wise.

Nolvadex is another good one…superior to clomid…hmmm…perhaps. I think me choosing clomid is more from experience with it.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I’ve never heard of clomid being used to reduce water gains although it is a serm and would work like nolve in this respect.

As for ‘stabilising the lean mass gains for the cycle’ - I don’t even know what this really means. If it means what I think it means, ie prevent muscle being lost again once the cycle has ended, then the only thing that will do this is surely to get your natural test production back to as close to normal as possible in as short a time as possible… The only thing that will do this is good PCT, and the reason it’s called POST Cycle Therapy is because it needs to take place POST cycle, ie, when exogenous test or other AAS have left the body. You cannot restore natural test when there are compounds in the body, still suppressing you - this includes HCG as well by the way.

In fact, if you take clomid during your cycle, not after, its fair comment that you will HAVE NO PCT to speak of!

You say that you want to make lean gains, whilst minimising water retention, yet you have chosen anadrol, one of the MOST water retentive compounds out there, probably even moreso than dbol. Also you aren’t taking an anti-e or AI, the only two things that would help prevent water retention.

My personal experience on anadrol is that yes, your strength will go through the roof within 1 or 2 days of taking it, you will be massively pumped whilst you are on it and you will retain a minimum of that strength when you come off… IMHO it is a bad choice for the purpose that you claim to want. What is your rationale for using this compound?

6 weeks is the recommended max for strong orals like this (and is your winny to be taken orally as well or inj.?) so 4 weeks is’nt exactly ‘short’. If you do anadrol for 4 weeks, follow the advice of brother Ubiquitous and protect your liver, esp. if you are taking your winny orally.

Your cycle only has 2 heavily suppressive compounds - tren (only 2 weks as it stands) and drol. It is unlikely that you will need HCG as your nuts won’t have shrunk much by then…

IMHO this cycle is oddly thought out and needs a complete redesign. But it’s early on a sunday morning, I’m off to the gym in 15 minutes and I could be typing complete and utter BS. You decide :slight_smile:

bushboy[/quote]

Thanks for chiming in bushido
First I have heard clomid being used to successfully help against bloating.

Stabilizing mass is exactly what you think it means. I am well aware of the usual pct protocols. The AAS chosen have very short half lives. I seriously doubt if they would actually last a full day and a half at the level I am taking them. I would ask you this; since the cycle is short and the halflives are short as well, how much would truly be negated to add clomid in a week or two in advance of the pct?

JUst about all the class II types have the water retention problem. I simply chose one that I not only had access to, but has a short half life. Drol is prostegenic and winnie is anti-pro therefore the combo is optimal. No need for anti-e like aridimex. Clomid will work fine.

Both drol and winnie are oral. Yes, I already have milk thistles and omega and astaxanthan. Sorry I just didn’t post it originally. Other than that, I haven’t come across any research pointing to a more in depth measure to protect the liver.

I agree on the HCG account

No you are not typing B.S.
everything you talked about I took a deep look into. I have modified the cycle from everyones input. I appreciate all the help I can get…thanx

wk 1-3 50mg drol aday/50mg winnie caps aday/50 tren acetate aday
wk 4-6 50mg drol aday/50mg winnie aday
wk 5-7 1st day 100mg clomid next 6 days 50 mg
-milk thistle will be taken throughout
-Alpha Male will start end of week6
let me know what u think

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How about this for a short cycle w lean mass,strength, low water?

Weeks 2-6 60 MGS of Var ED
Weeks 1-6 Tren A/Test Prop 75/100 EOD
Weeks 1-6 Letro .625 MG ED Nolv 10 MGS ED
Week 6 HCG 500-750 ius ED for 5 days

Weeks 7-10 Either Clomid at 100 MGS 1st 5 days and 50 thereafter or nolva at 40 ED + some OTC Test boosters like Alpha Male

[quote]gustojack wrote:
What’s up guys
I’m about to go for a somewhat short cycle in a few days.
My goal is to gain more strength and boost muscle recovery and leave the cycle with some lean mass to boot.

My diet now is 40-30-30 (prot-carb-fat). On the cycle I will switch to 40-25-35 for more anabolic effect. I want to minimize water retention and fat gains as much as possible.

My regiment looks similar to ABBH except I will include big power movements and sprint drills on some leg days.
Here is my cycle (6 weeks)
weeks 1-2/ 50mg drol a day + 50mg winnie a day
week 3-4/ 50mg tren+drol+winnie
week 5-6/ 50mg winnie eod + Alpha Male +100mg clomid a day
let me know what you think[/quote]

with the compounds you have chosen:

weeks 1-4: tren 50 mg ED, winny 50 mg ED, drol 50 mg ED
weeks 5-6: tren 50 mg ED, winny 50 mg ED

PCT: 3 weeks Clomid and Alpha Male. you said you have experience with clomid, so you should know how it affects you. i used to do the 300-100-50 protocol, but i have found that just 100 mg ED for the first 2-3 weeks works better for me.

good luck.