T Nation

Chael Sonnen on T Replacement?

sorry for the title, i just needed you guys to open this and help me out.
i know that t-replacement stands for testosterone replacement. and i saw something about chael sonnen using it.
what is it?
performance enhancer?
whats it do?
legal?
pros?
cons?
why take it?
thanks!

My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?[/quote]

bump. someone help me out here?

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?[/quote]

bump. someone help me out here?[/quote]
When dudes get older it increases t-levels to that of a younger man. If a younger athlete or an athlete who shouldn’t have low t-levels is using then it’s an indicator of prior steroid use which can result in a lifetime of low t-levels. Rampage is on it, Dan Henderson, I believe Couture was, and there are tons of others.

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?[/quote]

bump. someone help me out here?[/quote]
When dudes get older it increases t-levels to that of a younger man. If a younger athlete or an athlete who shouldn’t have low t-levels is using then it’s an indicator of prior steroid use which can result in a lifetime of low t-levels. Rampage is on it, Dan Henderson, I believe Couture was, and there are tons of others. [/quote]

I think there was an interview out there where Chael states he has used it.

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?[/quote]

bump. someone help me out here?[/quote]
When dudes get older it increases t-levels to that of a younger man. If a younger athlete or an athlete who shouldn’t have low t-levels is using then it’s an indicator of prior steroid use which can result in a lifetime of low t-levels. Rampage is on it, Dan Henderson, I believe Couture was, and there are tons of others. [/quote]

what if someone who has never taken steroids takes it. would it just give him extra testosterone, resulting in major growth similar to the effect of steroids (without the cons)? sorry, i really dont know what this stuff is or anything about it, just trying to find out. but thats interesting. but again, what about just a regular guy who has normal T levels who started taking it. what would happen?

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

I think there was an interview out there where Chael states he has used it.[/quote]

and, yes. sonnen was on it. he and his doctor claims that he never fully went through puberty as a kid and as a result, had the T levels of a 93 year old man so he needed T replacement. but he was too embarrassed to say that in front of other fighters, so he waited till he was in court to say it.

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

I think there was an interview out there where Chael states he has used it.[/quote]

and, yes. sonnen was on it. he and his doctor claims that he never fully went through puberty as a kid and as a result, had the T levels of a 93 year old man so he needed T replacement. but he was too embarrassed to say that in front of other fighters, so he waited till he was in court to say it.[/quote]

All bullshit. Got caught and is now telling tall tales to try to cover his ass.

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?[/quote]

bump. someone help me out here?[/quote]
When dudes get older it increases t-levels to that of a younger man. If a younger athlete or an athlete who shouldn’t have low t-levels is using then it’s an indicator of prior steroid use which can result in a lifetime of low t-levels. Rampage is on it, Dan Henderson, I believe Couture was, and there are tons of others. [/quote]

what if someone who has never taken steroids takes it. would it just give him extra testosterone, resulting in major growth similar to the effect of steroids (without the cons)? sorry, i really dont know what this stuff is or anything about it, just trying to find out. but thats interesting. but again, what about just a regular guy who has normal T levels who started taking it. what would happen?
[/quote]

His body would downregulate its receptors and its own T production to stay in pretty much the same range it was before?

Unless he uses like A LOT, but then, why bother with a gel?

I think this is about right, for details why it probably is not, go to the steroids forum.

Also, if he uses this stuff and boinks a pregnant women he will have very interesting children.

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?[/quote]

bump. someone help me out here?[/quote]
When dudes get older it increases t-levels to that of a younger man. If a younger athlete or an athlete who shouldn’t have low t-levels is using then it’s an indicator of prior steroid use which can result in a lifetime of low t-levels. Rampage is on it, Dan Henderson, I believe Couture was, and there are tons of others. [/quote]

what if someone who has never taken steroids takes it. would it just give him extra testosterone, resulting in major growth similar to the effect of steroids (without the cons)? sorry, i really dont know what this stuff is or anything about it, just trying to find out. but thats interesting. but again, what about just a regular guy who has normal T levels who started taking it. what would happen?
[/quote]

No, when you inject synthetic testosterone, your body’s natural testosterone production shuts down. This is why your testicles shrink while taking steroids (the shrinkage can be prevented with an additional drug, HCG, but your natural test production is still halted).

If Chael Sonnen is indeed on TRT, it’s possible he just simply had low testosterone due to hypogonadism or something similar. There are a couple younger guys on TNation who post in the steroid board who have gotten themselves on TRT.

Another possibility is he misused steroids and caused permanent damage to his endocrine system, meaning his testicles are permanently “shut down” and require synthetic testosterone.

I think most likely though these guys are going to sketchy doctors and getting prescribed large doses of testosterone. When you get your test levels measured, they are measured in pg/mL. The healthy range depends on the doctor, but it usually falls between 200-800 pg/mL. The TRT dose is very debatable, some doctors give 100 mg/week, some 150, etc. Find a sketchy doctor to prescribe you 250mg of Test per week, and (depending on your height/weight and many other factors) you can easily hit 1000-1200 pg/mL.

That’s not steroid levels, but it’s certainly supraphysiological and could definitely give you a edge.

Also, why dont these guys arrive at a proper T/E ratio, the Chinese always did, even though their teenage female swimmers looked like Conan the Barbarian and had awesome mustaches.

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?[/quote]

bump. someone help me out here?[/quote]
When dudes get older it increases t-levels to that of a younger man. If a younger athlete or an athlete who shouldn’t have low t-levels is using then it’s an indicator of prior steroid use which can result in a lifetime of low t-levels. Rampage is on it, Dan Henderson, I believe Couture was, and there are tons of others. [/quote]

I beleive its also been said, that constant weight cutting for fights, over time, will reduce test levels. and nowadays, fighters do that to the extreme.

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?[/quote]

bump. someone help me out here?[/quote]
When dudes get older it increases t-levels to that of a younger man. If a younger athlete or an athlete who shouldn’t have low t-levels is using then it’s an indicator of prior steroid use which can result in a lifetime of low t-levels. Rampage is on it, Dan Henderson, I believe Couture was, and there are tons of others. [/quote]

I think there was an interview out there where Chael states he has used it.[/quote]

Wow, you don’t follow mma much huh? lol. Its pretty much very very very old news that sonnen is on TRT.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?[/quote]

bump. someone help me out here?[/quote]
When dudes get older it increases t-levels to that of a younger man. If a younger athlete or an athlete who shouldn’t have low t-levels is using then it’s an indicator of prior steroid use which can result in a lifetime of low t-levels. Rampage is on it, Dan Henderson, I believe Couture was, and there are tons of others. [/quote]

I think there was an interview out there where Chael states he has used it.[/quote]

Wow, you don’t follow mma much huh? lol. Its pretty much very very very old news that sonnen is on TRT. [/quote]

Cool story bro

[quote]overstand wrote:

That’s not steroid levels, but it’s certainly supraphysiological and could definitely give you a edge.[/quote]

Ya, but I think the edge is not so much due to added swoleness but because of shorter recovery times.

All I know is that early on Chael was a teletubby, who would get submitted by anyone who knew how to slap an armbar on.

These days, he’s a shit talking minihulk who gets submitted by anyone who knows how to slap an armbar on.

t-replacement is legit. There are normal parameters, but the thing that bugs the crap out of me is that guys who use certain steroids end up screwing up their ability to naturally produce normal levels of testosterone.

So in the end, you mess around with steroids and end up being someone who naturally produces lower levels of testosterone after the fact. So then you supply test to get things back to normal. For professional sports, I don’t mind someone replacing Test because they naturally can’t get their levels right.

BUT, if you can’t produce testosterone naturally and be within normal range as a result of steroids or other abuse, then that’s just double dipping and cheating. Trouble is I don’t think there is a way to tell the difference.

I think when Sonnen had high levels of test, he was above or at the same level Overeem was at. If you ask me, he’s just a cheat using T replacement as an excuse. If he were using it to put his levels within normal range, he shouldn’t have pissed levels as high as Overeems dirty test.

[quote]Severiano wrote:
All I know is that early on Chael was a teletubby, who would get submitted by anyone who knew how to slap an armbar on.

These days, he’s a shit talking minihulk who gets submitted by anyone who knows how to slap an armbar on.

t-replacement is legit. There are normal parameters, but the thing that bugs the crap out of me is that guys who use certain steroids end up screwing up their ability to naturally produce normal levels of testosterone.

So in the end, you mess around with steroids and end up being someone who naturally produces lower levels of testosterone after the fact. So then you supply test to get things back to normal. For professional sports, I don’t mind someone replacing Test because they naturally can’t get their levels right.

BUT, if you can’t produce testosterone naturally and be within normal range as a result of steroids or other abuse, then that’s just double dipping and cheating. Trouble is I don’t think there is a way to tell the difference.

I think when Sonnen had high levels of test, he was above or at the same level Overeem was at. If you ask me, he’s just a cheat using T replacement as an excuse. If he were using it to put his levels within normal range, he shouldn’t have pissed levels as high as Overeems dirty test. [/quote]

What people are having a hard time understanding is that Overeem did not test positive for any steroid. His test levels were completely normal. His test to epi level was off.

Dudes juice.

Some don’t, some literally juice their balls off or are forced for strategical reasons.

@Sonnen
If from now on, Sonnen would only supplement with soyprotein and a multivitamin, his career would be over.
Him being a grinder relies on perfect shape and ring aggression.
That doesn’t mean higher test in itself is a sure win - not at all.
But in his case, introducing lower testosterone now (read: normal levels for his age, genes, and years of hard training & competition) would let his levels plummet and forcefully change his whole game and gym approach.

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]iStandOnMyHands wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
My man Sonnen is not on T replacement. It’s dandelion powder. It helps him lean out. ‘know what I’m sayin’?[/quote]

bump. someone help me out here?[/quote]
When dudes get older it increases t-levels to that of a younger man. If a younger athlete or an athlete who shouldn’t have low t-levels is using then it’s an indicator of prior steroid use which can result in a lifetime of low t-levels. Rampage is on it, Dan Henderson, I believe Couture was, and there are tons of others. [/quote]

what if someone who has never taken steroids takes it. would it just give him extra testosterone, resulting in major growth similar to the effect of steroids (without the cons)? sorry, i really dont know what this stuff is or anything about it, just trying to find out. but thats interesting. but again, what about just a regular guy who has normal T levels who started taking it. what would happen?
[/quote]
T levels are checked before a fight, they have to be in an acceptable range. Obviously guys abuse this but it can be risky.