Cephalic Carnage: How Do You Train?

[quote]Vegg wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Vegg wrote:
MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
Deffinately one of my favorite guys here on T-Nation, and deffinately the number one person who I turn to when I need some training advice.

C_C has a wealth of information and I think everyone could benefit from his knowledge. You the man brother.

x2

Thanks CC for all the tips, much appreciated

x3

…And for the technical death metal recommendations. :stuck_out_tongue:

You can send some back my way anytime… Easy to miss some of the best stuff coming out…

Will do. Did you give Ne Obliviscaris a listen?

Also, post some numbers.

:wink:
[/quote]

DONT POST NUMBERS !

For the love of all god, there’d be a MILLION 140 lb’ers in here declaring BB’ers are weak and cant lift weight.

Lets not ruin the thread, suffice to say CC is an animal !

[quote]300andabove wrote:
Vegg wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Vegg wrote:
MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
Deffinately one of my favorite guys here on T-Nation, and deffinately the number one person who I turn to when I need some training advice.

C_C has a wealth of information and I think everyone could benefit from his knowledge. You the man brother.

x2

Thanks CC for all the tips, much appreciated

x3

…And for the technical death metal recommendations. :stuck_out_tongue:

You can send some back my way anytime… Easy to miss some of the best stuff coming out…

Will do. Did you give Ne Obliviscaris a listen?

Also, post some numbers.

:wink:

DONT POST NUMBERS !

[/quote]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12…

Uh-oh…

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12…

Uh-oh…

[/quote]

WOW

2 funny jokes in 2 days.

^.^

Shocked

[quote]300andabove wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12…

Uh-oh…

WOW

2 funny jokes in 2 days.

^.^

Shocked[/quote]

You didn’t think me calling you Mr. Tealand was funny?
Damn, you brits and your weird humo(u)r.

:wink:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12…

Uh-oh…

[/quote]

I reckon that numbers are the weights of your warmup sets for lateral raises, in tonnes? :slight_smile:

good stuff CC. i can really relate to the frustrations of being stuck at a crap gym.

[quote]pinkponyz wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12…

Uh-oh…

I reckon that numbers are the weights of your warmup sets for lateral raises, in tonnes? :slight_smile: [/quote]

Ha!

(that would take some shoulders, alright)

[quote]alit4 wrote:
good stuff CC. i can really relate to the frustrations of being stuck at a crap gym.[/quote]

Thanks man.

Yeah, during my last half year I, for about a month, trained at a gym that had no rack, no smith and just a very useless leg-press.
I dunno why the hell Germany is seen as the country of engineers and what-have-you, they’re apparently all too stupid to build a leg-press that doesn’t fuck your lower back up.

So during that time, I basically couldn’t train my legs past lying leg curls (ok, I gotta ask now, is it “lying leg curls” or “laying leg curls”?) and leg extensions (woohoo).
(proper sldls were out since there was no rack)

I tried cleaning the bar overhead for squatting, but I can’t clean nearly enough to accomodate for my usual working weight and since you can’t drop the bar in that gym, I had my fair share of trouble getting it back up and down in front of me :wink:

After a while I began to really hate leg day (moreso than one usually does) and just ended up skipping it pretty often.
Not good.

Moral of the story: A crap gym will hold you back, both physically and mentally.
Find a new one.

[quote]

Your definitely one of the nicer guys around here. Thanks for sharing your secrets. :slight_smile:

[quote]elano wrote:
Your definitely one of the nicer guys around here. Thanks for sharing your secrets. :-)[/quote]

Secrets, well… Not too many secrets around for sharing, huh?

Not much more to bodybuilding than getting ever stronger on key exercises for each bodypart/muscle-group for reps and eating a ton…

Until you reach the upper echelons, then things can get a tad more complicated.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
alit4 wrote:
good stuff CC. i can really relate to the frustrations of being stuck at a crap gym.

Thanks man.

Yeah, during my last half year I, for about a month, trained at a gym that had no rack, no smith and just a very useless leg-press.
I dunno why the hell Germany is seen as the country of engineers and what-have-you, they’re apparently all too stupid to build a leg-press that doesn’t fuck your lower back up.

So during that time, I basically couldn’t train my legs past lying leg curls (ok, I gotta ask now, is it “lying leg curls” or “laying leg curls”?) and leg extensions (woohoo).
(proper sldls were out since there was no rack)

I tried cleaning the bar overhead for squatting, but I can’t clean nearly enough to accomodate for my usual working weight and since you can’t drop the bar in that gym, I had my fair share of trouble getting it back up and down in front of me :wink:

After a while I began to really hate leg day (moreso than one usually does) and just ended up skipping it pretty often.
Not good.

Moral of the story: A crap gym will hold you back, both physically and mentally.
Find a new one.
[/quote]

definately, i wasted 2 years just cruising. have a good gym now and it’s like being a beginner again.

I would just like to reinforce the echo here - CC you are a real credit to the forums and are not only experienced and knowledgeable but also very helpful and well spoken.

And from what I have heard, a big fucking dude too.

C_C what’s your opinion on cheating when lifting. And do you feel there is a right way and a wrong way to cheat? Also, any tips you might give a beginner/intermediate on this subject?

How are you liking Wendler’s program?

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
C_C what’s your opinion on cheating when lifting. And do you feel there is a right way and a wrong way to cheat? Also, any tips you might give a beginner/intermediate on this subject?
[/quote] Hmm.
There are some lifts on which cheating can be very useful.
On most curls, actual textbook form with elbows jammed into the sides etc seems flat-out detrimental and unnatural to me, for example, so I let the elbows travel a bit (which imo isn’t exactly cheating).
I noticed that on flat-bar curls, this reduced the amount of discomfort on my wrists, for example…

Now, for actual body-english, who can deny it’s usefulness when looking at exercises like Kroc-Rows ?
Non-cheated one-arm rows seem like a complete waste of time by comparison, at least to me.

I would never cheat on something like a bench, incline or close-grip press, Squat, Deadlift… (not via body-english, anyway, though restricted rom is perfectly fine depending on what you want to achieve through that exercise), and such, but on curls and some row-variants as well as on laterals (not necessarily needed, but can work well) I do cheat within reason and believe that this is quite safe (been doing that for a decade without injury, after all).

As for beginners… I’d say start training with no body-english at first and then let it come over time. You need to develop a sense for how an exercise should feel on the muscle first.
Once you begin to use more body-english where appropriate, then that feeling is what you should be gunning for as well. If it’s not there, then you probably cheat too much.
Cheating, like all other aspects of strength training, requires common sense. A 120 lb guy high-pulling the 60’s and calling that db curls obviously has very little common sense…

The stronger you get on some movements, the more natural sway will occur. Curling 180-200 lbs on the flat or EZ bar won’t allow you to stand perfectly upright with no body-movement at all once the bar is traveling in front of you. Without a bit of lean or sway, you’d just fall flat on your nose…

Also, if you cheat the weight up on the positive but just let it drop on the negative… Well, no point in doing that.
Resist on the negative, that’s the whole point of cheating after all. To get the weight up so that you can resist it when it comes back down.

One thing: When cheating on rows, try to keep your forearms from breaking the 90 (roughly, no need to measure this…) degree angle to the floor too much.
If the DB or BB travels too far forward during the positive where you use momentum to get the weight up, then, once that momentum is gone, the weight will suddenly place a lot of stress on the biceps (basically avoid curling the weight up towards your shoulders on a row)… Also avoid jerking the weight out of the bottom position…

[quote]
How are you liking Wendler’s program?[/quote]

Works well for me, I’m curious how long I’ll be able to keep progressing in my lifts before having to replace them… That’s why I am doing 5/3/1 in the first place, to be able to keep my current lifts in the program for as long as possible (too few exercise choices available in general, so replacing stalled lifts is tricky business).

Right now I still have muscle-memory on my side so I’m basically regaining previously lost strength, things will get a lot more interesting once I reach my previous strength levels.

Oh yeah… Don’t we still have a project to complete ? :wink:
And imo you deserve a thread of your own…

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
I would just like to reinforce the echo here - CC you are a real credit to the forums and are not only experienced and knowledgeable but also very helpful and well spoken.

And from what I have heard, a big fucking dude too.[/quote]

Thanks, brother.

If only I could get myself to structure my page-long posts so that people reading them wouldn’t feel like they just went through 2 whole scott abel articles :wink:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Der Candy wrote:
I would just like to reinforce the echo here - CC you are a real credit to the forums and are not only experienced and knowledgeable but also very helpful and well spoken.

And from what I have heard, a big fucking dude too.

Thanks, brother.

If only I could get myself to structure my page-long posts so that people reading them wouldn’t feel like they just went through 2 whole scott abel articles :wink:
[/quote]

thats a character i think possibly could be full of shit haha

C_C, lets say: Accidentally ate your woman so you had to get a new one (lets call her Woman2). You later find out that Woman2 has a son, a 20 year old skinnyfat nerd that is starting to regret that he’s spent his whole life getting to weigh 190lb with 20% bodyfat, and not being capable of lifting much.
Woman2’s son comes to you and says “I want to get HYOOOGE, and STRONG like a bull!”
How would you plan his first year of training? His 2nd year? His next years?

Also: Have you got any (not previously mentioned) tips for those days when you feel like eating really sucks, how to get down some good protein and a lot of kcals?

[quote]pinkponyz wrote:
C_C, lets say: Accidentally ate your woman [/quote] I eat my woman out all the time, what do you mean by “accidentally”? [quote] so you had to get a new one (lets call her Woman2).

You later find out that Woman2 has a son, a 20 year old skinnyfat nerd that is starting to regret that he’s spent his whole life getting to weigh 190lb with 20% bodyfat, and not being capable of lifting much.

Woman2’s son comes to you and says “I want to get HYOOOGE, and STRONG like a bull!”
How would you plan his first year of training? His 2nd year? His next years?
[/quote]

I’d probably start him off with a 4-way and monitor his progress, let him modify his training over time to whatever suits him best.

It usually can go two different ways from there:

a) He finds that he likes lower volume/can progress faster that way (reduces exercises to 2 for most muscle-groups) and, due to that reduced volume, now has very short sessions.

He might then group bodyparts together more so that he doesn’t have to spend all his money on petrol for driving to the gym just do do 2 bicep exercises and ends up on a 3-way split with slightly higher frequency than 1/week/bodypart.
He might end up at the DC 2-way one day when following that route.

b) He prefers to split things up more and likes the short sessions (or, which I haven’t seen happening with any of the guys I help out and monitor more closely than others: He wants higher volume in general for everything) and so he goes on a 5-way, then a 6-way.

I think he’d ultimately be using an approach to what I’m currently (forced) to do: 6-way with 3-4 days where Wendler 5/3/1 is used for some main exercises… Or just a regular 6-way.

(both cases should work whether he wants to train for pl or bb… I don’t think I’d let him specialize early. Instead, focus would be on getting him as strong as possible for reps on key exercises for each bodypart and eating 2grams of protein/lb of bodyweight 90 percent of the time along with am cardio and cutoff if he wants… Until he has reached a weight-class that allows him to fill his frame out properly. Then he can specialize.)

Oh yeah. I’d make damn sure to teach him appropriate (not necessarily textbook-) form on all lifts etc… Obviously.

[quote]

Also: Have you got any (not previously mentioned) tips for those days when you feel like eating really sucks, how to get down some good protein and a lot of kcals?[/quote]

Well, I think I mentioned most somehow somewhere, but let’s see:

Make your PWO shake or meal bigger if you can.
Use large shakes in general. At least, that works well for me. I need to use a lot of water in them though.

If we’re talking about one of those days where you darn close to puking all the time… Well, that can be rather tricky…

I avoid such times mostly by taking it down a notch with the food and protein intake every now and again. While DCing, I’d reduce protein to 400 grams a day or so, for example, and eat mostly to satisfy hunger (but still eat 5 meals a day at least).

Now, with a different routine I plan to use my 5/3/1 deload weeks for that same thing. Have to wait till this 5/3/1 cycle is complete, though, as I started the lift-cycles at different times (cgp first, then mil.press the next week and rack pulls the third week, so they’re all at different stages).

Also, as I said before: Carb-cutoffs + fasted am cardio allow be to eat a whole bowl of pasta in the morning without problems, if I skip both instead then I can’t get down the pasta at all.

Since I drink plenty of green tea before am cardio as well as water, I’m well hydrated as well… I find that if I wake up “dehydrated”, I can’t eat much at all except for food that goes down easily (fruits mostly).

That brings us to the next point, let’s face it, most bodybuilders don’t eat all that much in the ways of fruits and veggies… So whenever I’m full but feel like I actually should be getting in more food, I go on a kiwi-hunt or eat some paprika (do you call that paprika in English as well? I’m not sure if we use the same word here…) or whatever.
Few cals I guess, but every bit helps.

Also, salad is easy to get in after a bigger meal… It’s not much, but it’s something.
No need to restrict yourself to that stuff though, if you’re full and you know “fuck, I haven’t eaten as much as I should today”, then just stop trying to force-feed yourself whatever base-food you’re eating now and find ANYTHING that you think might not make you throw up, then eat it! Be that cherry-tomatoes, fruit-juice or nuts, just get it in.

General tactics: Find foods that you can eat a lot of, in my case pasta with tomato sauce, pizza (not that great as a base-food if you want to keep lean, but especially useful for poor college-students etc and for days were you really need energy or have had some trouble getting the cals in…), avocados (yeah, good source of healthy fats as well… And fat has the huge advantage that you don’t have to eat as much of it compared to carbs to get the same amount of cals) and such.

So these foods are my filler/base just to get in enough calories. They’re also all easy/fast to prepare… Pasta takes what, probably 6-8 minutes if you get the water to boil in a, what do you call that, water-heater or so? - before you put the water in a pot with pasta and then just keep it cooking for a while…

I have to put some butter in my pasta btw, or else I can’t get it down so well.

Now, once you’ve determined what foods you can eat a lot of, just use these in most of your meals or whenever you need extra-cals…

I don’t eat fish usually, but canned tuna and such as well as ground beef are great for the guys who are lacking in the finances department, so use these! No need to use the ultra-high-grade ground beef (i.e. 90 percent or so beef content), you can use the 80 or 70 percent one…
Both these foods have lots of protein in them, so go for it if you like them.

Another… well, not really a trick and it may differ from person to person (mentioned that before as well, though):

When cooking pasta or rice, I make sure I take both out of the water when they’re al dente instead of waiting until they’re softer/more “watery”.

I hate the way they taste when they’re past the al dente stage and then they’re also so much more filling.

In fact, I can’t eat half as much rice when it’s soaked full/tender/whatever vs. when it’s a.d.

Rest of the stuff…
EVOO in shakes, not all shakes though. Start with one shake daily, I’d say mid-morning or so, one tablespoon of EVOO only for now.
Then gradually up the dose.

I wouldn’t use that in the evening, your body is supposed to burn fat at night, but you can’t lose fat easily if your body just burns fat you fed it instead of the fat it has stored itself, now, can it?

That’s imo why eating only lean protein sources and trace carbs before bed is better from a fat-loss/keep fat at bay perspective than eating cottage cheese… Not as important for a young, skinny dude though, especially if you don’t have the funds to buy a lot of food for yourself and have to rely on parents/cafeteria.

Anyway… Grind oats to a fine powder in a good mixer and add them to shakes/milk/whatever with some added flavor…

Careful, can taste bitter without extra flavor. Might depend on the kind of oats you get as well.
I got sick of that stuff though and the oat-shakes had a tendency to become useless to me at work/school. They would be in my bag for a while and then become “thicker” and eventually turn into sort of a thick paste which makes it hard to ingest the stuff…

This might not happen with shakes that don’t contain any fiber additives past the oats themselves, all my protein-powders usually had fiber added in them from the factory and I haven’t tried the powdered-oats thing with regular protein powder…

And yeah, in general: Eat more fat ! Preferably the “good” fats, of course, but you need the other stuff too!

As mentioned above, fat has more cals than carbs or protein of the same amount, so it can be a huge help for getting excess cals in.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

I wouldn’t use that in the evening, your body is supposed to burn fat at night, but you can’t lose fat easily if your body just burns fat you fed it instead of the fat it has stored itself, now, can it?

That’s imo why eating only lean protein sources and trace carbs before bed is better from a fat-loss/keep fat at bay perspective than eating cottage cheese… Not as important for a young, skinny dude though, especially if you don’t have the funds to buy a lot of food for yourself and have to rely on parents/cafeteria.

[/quote]

So what do you say to a youngin’ like me (20 yrs old, 180lbs @ 10ish% bf up from 140lbs in a year and a half) who literately has approximately 180 grams of fat spread over four meals from 2-10pm. I eat most of my carbs at breakfast/lifting/first meal after with the rest of the days carbs from nuts and veggies (salad w/ tomatoes, cauliflower, peas, broccoli, spinach, etc) and I do this regularly.

I do the cottage cheese/PB combo right before bed. Do I keep up with this food cocktail or would you suggest cramming in most of those fat calories prior to the cutoff (I realize it’s a carb cutoff, but is it not also a added fat cutoff, too)?

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
C_C what’s your opinion on cheating when lifting. And do you feel there is a right way and a wrong way to cheat? Also, any tips you might give a beginner/intermediate on this subject?
Hmm.

There are some lifts on which cheating can be very useful.

On most curls, actual textbook form with elbows jammed into the sides etc seems flat-out detrimental and unnatural to me, for example, so I let the elbows travel a bit (which imo isn’t exactly cheating).

I noticed that on flat-bar curls, this reduced the amount of discomfort on my wrists, for example…

Now, for actual body-english, who can deny it’s usefulness when looking at exercises like Kroc-Rows ?

Non-cheated one-arm rows seem like a complete waste of time by comparison, at least to me.

I would never cheat on something like a bench, incline or close-grip press, Squat, Deadlift… (not via body-english, anyway, though restricted rom is perfectly fine depending on what you want to achieve through that exercise), and such, but on curls and some row-variants as well as on laterals

(not necessarily needed, but can work well) I do cheat within reason and believe that this is quite safe (been doing that for a decade without injury, after all).

As for beginners… I’d say start training with no body-english at first and then let it come over time. You need to develop a sense for how an exercise should feel on the muscle first.
Once you begin to use more body-english where appropriate, then that feeling is what you should be gunning for as well. If it’s not there, then you probably cheat too much.

Cheating, like all other aspects of strength training, requires common sense. A 120 lb guy high-pulling the 60’s and calling that db curls obviously has very little common sense…

The stronger you get on some movements, the more natural sway will occur. Curling 180-200 lbs on the flat or EZ bar won’t allow you to stand perfectly upright with no body-movement at all once the bar is traveling in front of you. Without a bit of lean or sway, you’d just fall flat on your nose…

Also, if you cheat the weight up on the positive but just let it drop on the negative… Well, no point in doing that.

Resist on the negative, that’s the whole point of cheating after all. To get the weight up so that you can resist it when it comes back down.

One thing: When cheating on rows, try to keep your forearms from breaking the 90 (roughly, no need to measure this…) degree angle to the floor too much.

If the DB or BB travels too far forward during the positive where you use momentum to get the weight up, then, once that momentum is gone, the weight will suddenly place a lot of stress on the biceps (basically avoid curling the weight up towards your shoulders on a row)…

Also avoid jerking the weight out of the bottom position…
[/quote]

Thanks man. Great advice as always.

Good to hear. Hope it continues working for a long time to come.

Yeah, I know. But, what with all these people you’ve been sending my way for diet info and sports specific stuff, on top of my usual stuff I haven’t had much time to think about it. :wink:

[quote]
And imo you deserve a thread of your own… [/quote]

Thank you my friend. Not yet though IMO, give me a little while longer and maybe. :slight_smile: