Celebrating Atheism

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
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[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
Okay, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you state in another thread that you believed in God, but just hated religion?

CS[/quote]

Of course. But I don’t know the term for someone who believes in a Spinozist type god but not the Christian one.
[/quote]

Wouldn’t Deism be closest? Also I think Spinozism is an actual term but most won’t know what that means.[/quote]

No where near… I am a deist.[/quote]

Holy hell, has pat renounced Catholicism???[/quote]

No, I have long espoused the notion that creation itself is sufficient for recognizing God’s existence, outside and separate from organized religion. His creation speaks to his existence, his faith, speaks to us about Him.[/quote]

My disagreement that the universe’s existence is adequate proof of God aside, there’s a gap here between evidence for God and evidence for the catholic idea of God.

So you’re a deist, but as a deist, what specifically has pointed you in the direction of Catholicism as opposed to Islam or Hinduism or any other specific religion?

Also, a qualification of ‘deism’ is to hold the belief that God does not intervene in the lives of humans, not does he tinker with the laws of the universe. Given this, am I to understand that you deny the miracles said to have happened in the bible at least to the extent that they are literal miracles?

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[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
Okay, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you state in another thread that you believed in God, but just hated religion?

CS[/quote]

Of course. But I don’t know the term for someone who believes in a Spinozist type god but not the Christian one.
[/quote]

Wouldn’t Deism be closest? Also I think Spinozism is an actual term but most won’t know what that means.[/quote]

No where near… I am a deist.[/quote]

Your not a deist if your catholic.[/quote]

You have to be a deist to be a theist, you to be a theist to be a Christian, you have to be a Christian to be a Catholic.[/quote]

Deists believe God never intervened in our world, if your a deist by definition you cannot be a theist.[/quote]

Deism as I understand it would certainly preclude miracles.

edit: Tigertime beat me to it by a hair.

43

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:<<< Deism as I understand it would certainly preclude miracles. >>>[/quote]And some rather significant little Christian details such as the incarnation.

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[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
Okay, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you state in another thread that you believed in God, but just hated religion?

CS[/quote]

Of course. But I don’t know the term for someone who believes in a Spinozist type god but not the Christian one.
[/quote]

Wouldn’t Deism be closest? Also I think Spinozism is an actual term but most won’t know what that means.[/quote]

No where near… I am a deist.[/quote]

Your not a deist if your catholic.[/quote]

You have to be a deist to be a theist, you to be a theist to be a Christian, you have to be a Christian to be a Catholic.[/quote]

Deists believe God never intervened in our world, if your a deist by definition you cannot be a theist.[/quote]

Some deist take that point of view, but it’s not necessary tenant. It’s a form… It’s simply the notion that the creation with out the benefit of divine revelation, is alone evidentiary of God’s existence. It’s not a strict form, of deism, but like every ‘ism’ their are kinds and varying degrees. There’s no hard rule, no governing body that says you must reject everything else to receive your deist certificate. Just simply without the benefit of divine revelation of any kind, God’s existence can be determined by the existence he created.

45

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
Okay, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you state in another thread that you believed in God, but just hated religion?

CS[/quote]

Of course. But I don’t know the term for someone who believes in a Spinozist type god but not the Christian one.
[/quote]

Wouldn’t Deism be closest? Also I think Spinozism is an actual term but most won’t know what that means.[/quote]

No where near… I am a deist.[/quote]

Holy hell, has pat renounced Catholicism???[/quote]

No, I have long espoused the notion that creation itself is sufficient for recognizing God’s existence, outside and separate from organized religion. His creation speaks to his existence, his faith, speaks to us about Him.[/quote]

My disagreement that the universe’s existence is adequate proof of God aside, there’s a gap here between evidence for God and evidence for the catholic idea of God.
[/quote]
So? It’s only perception. Divine revelation is necessary for Catholicism, not for Deism. Even if I wasn’t Catholic or parcel to any kind of divine revelation, I would, by simple logic have no choice but to determine God exists.

I grew up Catholic, but I also independently studied it, a lot, I am Catholic by choice, it’s not compelled.

[quote]
Also, a qualification of ‘deism’ is to hold the belief that God does not intervene in the lives of humans, not does he tinker with the laws of the universe. Given this, am I to understand that you deny the miracles said to have happened in the bible at least to the extent that they are literal miracles? [/quote]

Qualification? No. I am not a pure deist, my deism ends at God’s existence. For that I need nothing more that simple existence that his existence is absolutely necessary. And for the most part, he does not directly intervene in the processes he put forth. But like most things there are exceptions to the rule, but they are rare. If they were common, we wouldn’t notice.

46

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
Okay, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you state in another thread that you believed in God, but just hated religion?

CS[/quote]

Of course. But I don’t know the term for someone who believes in a Spinozist type god but not the Christian one.
[/quote]

Wouldn’t Deism be closest? Also I think Spinozism is an actual term but most won’t know what that means.[/quote]

No where near… I am a deist.[/quote]

Holy hell, has pat renounced Catholicism???[/quote]

No, I have long espoused the notion that creation itself is sufficient for recognizing God’s existence, outside and separate from organized religion. His creation speaks to his existence, his faith, speaks to us about Him.[/quote]

My disagreement that the universe’s existence is adequate proof of God aside, there’s a gap here between evidence for God and evidence for the catholic idea of God.
[/quote]
So? It’s only perception. Divine revelation is necessary for Catholicism, not for Deism. Even if I wasn’t Catholic or parcel to any kind of divine revelation, I would, by simple logic have no choice but to determine God exists.

I grew up Catholic, but I also independently studied it, a lot, I am Catholic by choice, it’s not compelled.

[quote]
Also, a qualification of ‘deism’ is to hold the belief that God does not intervene in the lives of humans, not does he tinker with the laws of the universe. Given this, am I to understand that you deny the miracles said to have happened in the bible at least to the extent that they are literal miracles? [/quote]

Qualification? No. I am not a pure deist, my deism ends at God’s existence. For that I need nothing more that simple existence that his existence is absolutely necessary. And for the most part, he does not directly intervene in the processes he put forth. But like most things there are exceptions to the rule, but they are rare. If they were common, we wouldn’t notice. [/quote]

And my theism ends at God’s existence. Would it make sense for me to call myself a theist?

47

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[quote]pat wrote:<<< he does not directly intervene in the processes he put forth. But like most things there are exceptions to the rule, but they are rare. If they were common, we wouldn’t notice. [/quote]There goes everybody’s prayer life. Pat my good man. if I hadn’t already I would bury you, literally, in scripture that screams, with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God, the unspeakable immensity of the fatally flawed anti biblical view you have here put forth. I do wish you hadn’t run away and put me on ignore.

48

[quote]Headhunter wrote:I renounced my faith today; contacted the diocese and formally renounced my catholicism.[/quote]CONGRATULATIONS!!! When can I pick you up for church now that you have that outta the way???

49

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< he does not directly intervene in the processes he put forth. But like most things there are exceptions to the rule, but they are rare. If they were common, we wouldn’t notice. [/quote]There goes everybody’s prayer life. Pat my good man. if I hadn’t already I would bury you, literally, in scripture that screams, with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God, the unspeakable immensity of the fatally flawed anti biblical view you have here put forth. I do wish you hadn’t run away and put me on ignore.
[/quote]

Why do you want to live your life being scammed?

You are here. You have eyes, ears, and so on. That’s really all anyone knows. Live accordingly.

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life…” Deut 30:19

50

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:I renounced my faith today; contacted the diocese and formally renounced my catholicism.[/quote]CONGRATULATIONS!!! When can I pick you up for church now that you have that outta the way???
[/quote]

Actually, I’m going to attend Obama’s church, the one with the secret gay club for married black members. Gonna find out why 2 or 3 of the gay men at that church died (were assasinated) shortly before the Scum-in-Chief was elected. Oh…well…I guess I know…

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secular spirituality…?

53

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
Okay, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you state in another thread that you believed in God, but just hated religion?

CS[/quote]

Of course. But I don’t know the term for someone who believes in a Spinozist type god but not the Christian one.
[/quote]

You’re a half-assed atheist.

CS[/quote]

You failed. You have to come up with a word, not one that has vague means.
[/quote]

No, you failed. You don’t even know what you believe or don’t believe in. Just fucking pick one!

A. You believe in God
B. You don’t believe in God

It’s really not that complicated. You just like to drag it out into some “reason and logic” filled idea.

CS[/quote]

You just don’t get it, do you?

Haha no, I don’t get it. If you believe in a god, whether it be any type of god, you are not an atheist.

CS

54

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Einstein was a theist, he just didn’t believe in a ‘personal’ god. Neither do I for that matter, there is just God, not a kind of God. But if you are going to make a thread celebrating atheism, which is weird since atheists perpetually claim is a lack of belief, not a belief, then you should quote atheists. Einstein may not have practiced a religion, but in God he did believe. [/quote]

You’re a Catholic, you believe in a personal God.

Enough with the half truths or outright lies pat.[/quote]

Incorrect. I am not a kind of pat, I am just pat, there is not a kind of God, there is just God. Whether or not you can know him is debatable, but the fact that he’s not personalized, isn’t a question. If I could personalize him, I throw on some DUB’s, a pair of JL 12’s and put a 572 big block under the hood with curb feelers and a chain steering wheel.[/quote]

I’d hate to point this out, but that definition personal God has nothing to do with personalizing God.

55

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Einstein was a theist, he just didn’t believe in a ‘personal’ god. Neither do I for that matter, there is just God, not a kind of God. But if you are going to make a thread celebrating atheism, which is weird since atheists perpetually claim is a lack of belief, not a belief, then you should quote atheists. Einstein may not have practiced a religion, but in God he did believe. [/quote]

You’re a Catholic, you believe in a personal God.

Enough with the half truths or outright lies pat.[/quote]

Incorrect. I am not a kind of pat, I am just pat, there is not a kind of God, there is just God. Whether or not you can know him is debatable, but the fact that he’s not personalized, isn’t a question. If I could personalize him, I throw on some DUB’s, a pair of JL 12’s and put a 572 big block under the hood with curb feelers and a chain steering wheel.[/quote]

I’d hate to point this out, but that definition personal God has nothing to do with personalizing God.[/quote]Lie I say Pat has had a rough day. Go back in this thread to witness the poor boy declaring his Catholic (big C Chris) deism. I was giving your church much more credit than that btw. Pat is not a Dummy. I mean that. I’ve said it all along, but He IS one confused dude.

56

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:<<< WE are the ones who utilize reason and knowledge. >>>[/quote]You steal reason and knowledge from my bank in so doing and I have demonstrated why in the epistemology and metaphysics thread among others. Check those please.
[/quote]

I’ll check it out. I think you are missing something though unless you want to take a position against the Catholic Philosopher Alvin Plantinga (who I am an avid fan of), of whom I posted a video of on the prior page.

His video has to do with the notion that Knowledge= Justified True Belief/ K=jtb for short.

Among the things he points out is something Descartes pointed out a long time ago with a twist. If we know our senses are fallible (A posteriori) so all of the knowledge we may deduce based on experience has a little bit of belief with it, drawing a bigger distinction between a priori and a posteriori knowledge.

Why should this matter? Well Plantinga points out that A posteriori knowledge, what most sciences are based on at least in part in, and so they aren’t in such as strong a position as they thought to bash faith.

I’ll check out your thread, I have avoided it on purpose for a while. But if you say I should look at it, I will.

57

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

secular spirituality…?[/quote]

Deepak Chopra is one of the biggest modern day fraudsters out there.

58

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Einstein was a theist, he just didn’t believe in a ‘personal’ god. Neither do I for that matter, there is just God, not a kind of God. But if you are going to make a thread celebrating atheism, which is weird since atheists perpetually claim is a lack of belief, not a belief, then you should quote atheists. Einstein may not have practiced a religion, but in God he did believe. [/quote]

You’re a Catholic, you believe in a personal God.

Enough with the half truths or outright lies pat.[/quote]

Incorrect. I am not a kind of pat, I am just pat, there is not a kind of God, there is just God. Whether or not you can know him is debatable, but the fact that he’s not personalized, isn’t a question. If I could personalize him, I throw on some DUB’s, a pair of JL 12’s and put a 572 big block under the hood with curb feelers and a chain steering wheel.[/quote]

I’d hate to point this out, but that definition personal God has nothing to do with personalizing God.[/quote]

Thank you for saying it

59

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:<<< WE are the ones who utilize reason and knowledge. >>>[/quote]You steal reason and knowledge from my bank in so doing and I have demonstrated why in the epistemology and metaphysics thread among others. Check those please.
[/quote]

My statement stands. We are the ones who utilize reason and knowledge. From an A priori standpoint there is no evidence for a God, AT ALL.

From an A priori standpoint, there is reason to be agnostic.

From an A priori standpoint, there is no reason to be Atheist. (have the positive belief that there is no god)

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[quote]Severiano wrote:<<< We are the ones who utilize reason and knowledge. >>>[/quote]You DO utilize reason and knowledge. EV REE BUDDY does. Couldn’t avoid them if you wanted to. Created in the image of the super logical God. That’s the point. [quote]Severiano wrote:<<< From an A priori standpoint there is no evidence for a God, AT ALL. >>>[/quote]From an A priori standpoint there is no particle of knowledge in all of existence, and ESPECIALLY man as created in His image, that IS NOT a clear and inescapable PROCLAMATION of not just any God, but my triune God of the bible. Trust me. You have not thought this through. The problem is not a lack of evidence. The problem is man’s blindness in sin. [quote]Severiano wrote:<<< though unless you want to take a position against the Catholic Philosopher Alvin Plantinga (who I am an avid fan of) >>>[/quote]My position is against every philosopher you ever heard of my friend. Couldn’t be otherwise. Laugh if you must. I’m used to it. [quote]Severiano wrote:<<< I’ll check out your thread, I have avoided it on purpose for a while. But if you say I should look at it, I will. [/quote]You should. It will take an investment of time though because, nuthin personal, but I am not typing all that over again. Take some time seriously. You might be surprised at how stimulating some of those exchanges are. I’m not saying that just because I’m in the middle of them. There are numerous far older threads and a couple thousand years of church history wherein this discussion has taken place.

My epistemology thread: The Secret History of Money - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation

Brother Chris’s metaphysics thread: Metaphysics: The ACTUAL Key to Everything - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation

Cortes free will thread: Free Will - Politics and World Issues - Forums - T Nation