Calling All Thyroid Experts!

I found some pretty stellar resources for thyroid information but it’s on another forum and linking them is against the rules.

In the interest of full disclosure: I know nothing of Thyroid Function or testing beyond what I’m copying and paste-ing here.
Do not rely on this for medical advice, it is informational only.

I will copy the entire article, then put an AI generated TL;DR at the bottom.

If you are well-read in thyroid information, please tell me where any of this is wrong! I have looked over many forums for good thyroid info and have found nothing until this.

A brief overview of information I will post:
Thyroid Function Tests:

  • TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) is the primary test for thyroid function.
  • A high TSH level may indicate hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) and a low TSH level may indicate hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid).
  • Free T4 and sometimes Total T4 test measure thyroid hormone levels.
  • Other tests like Antithyroid antibodies, T3 resin uptake, Reverse T3 and Thyroglobulin are used in specific situations.
  • The “normal” TSH range can vary depending on the lab and age.

Thyroid Medications for Hypothyroidism:

  • Levothyroxine (T4): This is the most common medication prescribed, but some people may not convert T4 to the active form T3 well.
  • Liothyronine (T3): This is the active form of thyroid hormone and can be prescribed in combination with Levothyroxine.
  • Desiccated Thyroid (Armour): This is a “natural” medication made from animal thyroid glands and contains a mix of T4 and T3 in a pre-set ratio (usually 4:1 T4 to T3).

Key Points:

  • There is ongoing debate about the best way to diagnose and treat thyroid problems.
  • Some studies suggest that looking at changes in hormone levels, even within the normal range, might be useful.
  • The best medication for a patient depends on their individual needs and how they respond to treatment.
  • It is important to work with a doctor to find the best treatment option.
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From Auburn University.

THYROID FUNCTION TESTS

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH):

The thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) assay measures the concentration of thyroid stimulating hormone in the serum. TSH assays have been classified by “generation” based on the functional sensitivity of the assay, i.e., the lowest concentration at which the assay is able to maintain an inter-assay precision, expressed in terms of percent coefficient of variation (%CV), of 20% or less. Virtually all TSH assays currently in use are either second or third generation, with functional sensitivities of 0.1 to 0.2 µIU/mL and 0.01 to 0.02 µIU/mL, respectively; thus third generation assays are an order of magnitude more sensitive than second generation assays (sTSH). TSH is recognized as an exquisitely sensitive indicator of thyroid status and thus TSH assays (second or third generation) have been widely adopted as the front-line thyroid function test. In ambulatory patients with intact hypothalamic and pituitary function, a normal TSH result excludes hypo- or hyperthyroidism; whereas elevated and suppressed TSH results are diagnostic of hypo- and hyperthroidism, respectively. Abnormal TSH results are generally confirmed with a complementary determination of thyroid hormone levels as described below.

The third generation assays have been recognized as consistently superior to second generation assays with their ability to accurately distinguish between normal and suppressed results. Furthermore, third generation assays distinguish between mildly suppressed and profoundly suppressed states. These assays, therefore, provide a powerful tool for estimating the severity of hyperthyroidism, for distinguishing between frank hyperthyroidism (TSH values below 0.01 to 0.02 µIU/mL) and the effects of non- thyroidal illness and certain drugs among hospitalized patients that suppress TSH levels in the absence of thyroid disease (sick euthyroid disease), and for optimizing suppressive therapies.

In normal individuals, TSH levels typically are between 0.3 and 5.0 mU/ml. TSH is under negative feed back control by the amount of free thyroid hormone (T4 and T3) in the circulation and positive control by the hypothalamic thyroid-releasing hormone (TRH). Thus in the case of thyroid hormone deficiency (hypothyroidism) the TSH level should be elevated. A value greater than 20 mU/ml is a good indicator of primary failure of the thyroid gland. A value of between 5 and 15 is a borderline value that may require more careful evaluation. If the hypothyroid state is due to failure of the pituitary gland (TSH) or the hypothalamus (TRH), the values for TSH may be low, normal or occasionally in the borderline range. Thus a TSH above 15 is very good evidence for primary hypothyroidism and a value below 5 is very good evidence against primary hypothyroidism. The presence of low Free T4 with a TSH of less than 10 strongly suggests a pituitary or hypothalamic etiology for the hypothyroidism (secondary hypothyroidism). The TSH alone cannot be used to screen for secondary hypothyroidism and usually requires a measurement of thyroid hormone levels to be adequately interpreted.

Because high levels of free thyroid hormone will suppress TSH levels, in almost all cases of hyperthyroidism the TSH values will be less than 0.3 and usually less the 0.1 mU/L. Though TSH is a very effective tool to screen for hyperthyroidism, the degree of suppression of TSH does not always reflect the severity of the hyperthyroidism. Therefore a measurement of free thyroid hormone levels is usually required in patients with a suppressed TSH level. If the Free T4 is normal, the free T3 should be checked as it is the first hormone to increase in early hyperthyroidism.

TSH levels can also be used to effectively monitor patients being treated with thyroid hormone. However, it should be noted that TSH results may be misleading during the several months required for full equilibration of thyroid physiology following initiation or significant alteration of a treatment regimen. Total or free T4 generally serve as the front-line assays during this period. Once equilibration has occurred, high TSH levels usually indicate under-treatment, while low values usually indicate over-treatment. Again, abnormal TSH values should be interpreted with the measurement of free thyroid hormone before modifying therapy because serum thyroid hormone levels change more quickly than TSH levels. Thus patients who have recently been started on thyroid hormone, or who have been noncompliant until shortly before an office visit may have normal T4 and T3 levels, though their TSH levels are still elevated. TSH levels may be affected by acute illness and several medications, including dopamine and glucocorticoids.

• Decreased (low to undetectable) in Grave’s Disease
• Increased in TSH-secreting pituitary adenomas (secondary hyperthyroidism), PRTH
and in hypothalamic disease with increased thyrotropin (tertiary hyperthyroidism)
• Elevated in hypothyroidism (along with decreased T4) except for pituitary and hypothalamic disease
• Mild to modest elevations in patients with normal T4 and T3 levels indicates impaired thyroid hormone reserves and incipient hypothyroidism (subclinical hypothyroidism)
• Mild to modest decreases in patients with normal T4 and T3 levels indicates subclinical hyperhyroidism

Thyrotropin releasing hormone (TRH)

Prior to the availability of sensitive TSH assays, thyrotropin releasing hormone (TRH) stimulation tests were relied upon for confirming and assessing the degree of suppression in suspected hyperthyroidism. Typically, this stimulation test involves determining basal TSH levels and levels 15 to 30 minutes after an intravenous bolus of TRH. Normally, TSH would rise into the concentration range measurable with less sensitive TSH assays that could provide useful information from the profile of increase even if they were not sensitive enough to measure baseline values. Third generation assays do not have this limitation and thus TRH stimulation is generally not required when third generation assays are used to assess degree of suppression. TRH-stimulation testing however continues to be useful for the differential diagnosis of secondary (pituitary disorder)

and tertiary (hypothalamic disorder) hypothyroidism. Patients with these conditions appear to have physiologically inactive TSH in their circulation that is recognized by TSH assays to a degree such that they may yield misleading, “euthyroid” TSH
results. The TRH-stimulation test produces a very characteristic sluggish rise in TSH
values.

• Helpful in diagnosis in patients with confusing TFTs. In primary hyperthyroidism
TSH are low and TRH administration induces little or no change in TSH levels
• In hypothyroidism due to end organ failure, administration of TRH produces a prompt increase in TSH
• In hypothyroidism due to pituitary disease administration of TRH does not produce an increase in TSH
• In hypothyroidism due to hypothalamic disease, administration of TRH produces a delayed (60-120 minutes, rather than 15-30 minutes) increase in TSH

Total T4 (TT4) and Free T4 (FT4)

T4 assays complement TSH assays, and are used to confirm a thyroid disorder when this is suggested by an abnormal TSH result. Furthermore, T4 assays may become the front- line assays in conditions that are known to possibly compromise the reliability of TSH results. Several months may be required for the dynamics of the regulatory mechanism (along the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis) to fully equilibrate after a treatment regimen is initiated or significantly altered; during this time TSH results may be misleading. Secondary (hypothalamic disorder) and tertiary (pituitary disorder) hypothyroidism are other conditions in which TSH results may be misleading, and the differential diagnosis is likely to rely on T4 (Free T4) results complemented by the characteristic profile of TSH results obtained during a TRH-stimulation testing procedure. (See TSH).

The total T4 test measures the concentration of thyroxine in the serum, including both the protein bound and free hormone. The total (but not the free) hormone concentration is dependent on the concentration of thyroid transport proteins, specifically thyroid binding globulin (TBG), albumin, and thyroid binding prealbumin (transthyretin). Thus any conditions that affects levels of thyroid binding proteins will affect the total (but not the free) T4 hormone levels. For example, estrogens and acute liver disease will increase thyroid binding, while androgens, steroids, chronic liver disease and severe illness can decrease it. Also, while TT4 is usually elevated in hyperthyroidism, it misses 5% of cases that are due to triiodothyronine (T3) toxicosis (see below).

The free T4 (FT4) assay measures the concentration of free thyroxine, the only biologically active fraction, in the serum (about 0.05% of the total T4). The free thyroxine is not affected by changes in concentrations of binding proteins such as TBG and thyroid binding prealbumin. Thus such conditions as pregnancy, or estrogen and androgen therapy do not affect the FT4. Thus the FT4 assays generally are considered to provide the more reliable indication of true thyroid status because only the free hormone

is physiologically active. In developing hypothyroidism, T4 (free T4) is the more sensitive indicator of developing disease than is T3 (Free T3), and is therefore preferred for confirming hypothyroidism that has already been suggested by an elevated TSH result.

TT4 and FT4 are not always reliable indicators of thyroid disease. For example, a substantial proportion of seriously ill patients will have abnormal thyroid function in the absence of true thyroid disease, due to “sick euthyroid syndrome.” Also, screening with TT4 or FT4 will generate many false-positive results in healthy populations. And, because TT4 and FT4 are normal by definition in subclinical thyroid dysfunction, they are not useful as screening tests for this condition.

Total and Free Triiodothyronine (T3)

The total T3 test measures the concentration of triiodothyronine in the serum. The T3 is increased in almost all cases of hyperthyroidism and usually goes up before the T4 does. Thus T3 levels are a more sensitive indicator of hyperthyroidism than the total T4, and T3 levels are therefore preferred for confirming hyperthyroidism that has already been suggested by a suppressed TSH result. T3 assays are also useful for the differential diagnosis of T3 thyrotoxicosis, a variant of hyperthyroidism that manifests itself with abnormally elevated T3 and suppressed TSH levels, while T4 levels remain within euthyroid (normal) limits. In hypothyroidism the T3 is often normal even when the T4 is low. The T3 is decreased during acute illness and starvation, and is affected by several medications including Inderal, steroids and amiodarone. This test measures both bound and free hormone. And only the free hormone is biologically active. Since free T3 accounts for only about 0.5% of the total T3, measurement of free hormone is generally considered to provide the more reliable indication of true thyroid status. As noted above for T4 levels, anything which effects thyroid binding globulin (TBG), or albumin will effect the total T3 levels.

Resin Thyroid Uptake (T-uptake)

These assays have been variously referred to as T3-uptake, T4-uptake and thyroid-uptake tests, depending on the assay design. All are used in exactly the same manner and for the same purpose, not as stand-alone assays, but in combination with total T4 or total T3 assays. Matched T-uptake and total T4 results are used to calculate a free thyroxine index (FT4I or FT3I). The FT4I serves as an indirect estimate of free T4 levels, and were heavily relied upon historically, particularly before direct free T4 assays became available. The resin T3/T4 uptake is used to assess the binding capacity of the serum for thyroid hormone. This is used to help determine if the total T4 is reflecting the free T4, or if abnormalities in binding capacity are responsible for changes in T4 values and thus this test is only useful in conjunction with Total T4 or Total T3. In the Resin T3 Uptake test, labeled hormone is added to the patient’s serum. If there is an increase in binding capacity, more labeled hormone will be bound to the binding proteins and thus less will be left free in the serum. The free labeled hormone in the serum is measured and usually reported as a percent of the total labeled hormone added. If a patient has a high total T4,

it may be due to overproduction of thyroid hormone (Hyperthyroidism) or to an excess of one of the thyroid binding proteins, usually thyroid binding globulin (TBG). If the high Total T4 is secondary to high TBG, the Resin T3 will be low, otherwise it will be normal or elevated. Another way of putting this is that if the Total T4 or Total T3 deviates from normal in one direction and the Resin T3 uptake deviates in the opposite direction, then the abnormality is due to changes in binding capacity, otherwise it is secondary to a true change in thyroid function (i.e. Hyper- or Hypothyroidism). For example, if the binding capacity is increased because of high estrogens, the free labeled hormone will be decreased and the Resin T3 uptake will be decreased.

Reverse T3 (RT3):

Reverse T3 (RT3) is formed when T4 is deiodinated at the 5 position. RT3 has little or no biological activity and serves as a disposal path for T4. During periods of starvation or severe physical stress, the level of RT3 increases while the level of T3 decreases. In hypothyroidism both RT3 and T3 levels decrease. Thus RT3 can be used to help distinguish between hypothyroidism and the changes in thyroid function associated with acute illness, such as euthyroid sick syndrome.

Antithyroid Antibodies (Autoantibodies):

Autoantibodies of clinical interest in thyroid disease include thyroid-stimulating antibodies (TSAb), TSH receptor-binding inhibitory immunoglobulins (TBII), antithyro- globulin antibodies (Anti-Tg Ab) and the antithyroid peroxidase antibody (Anti-TPO Ab). Of these, anti-TPO Ab has emerged as the most generally useful marker for the diagnosis and management of autoimmune thyroid disease.

The Anti-TPO Ab was historically referred to as the antimicrosomal antibody. The thyroid peroxidase enzyme (responsible for iodinating tyrosine residues in the thyroglobulin molecule) was subsequently identified as the major microsomal component recognized by these autoantibodies. New, improved assays, designed in the wake of this insight, have been rapidly replacing the older antimicrosomal antibody assays.

Anti-TPO Abs mediate antibody-dependent thyroid cell destruction; levels correlate with the active phase of the disease. Measurement of this autoantibody is useful for resolving the diagnostic dilemma presented by the apparent inconsistency between elevated TSH and normal free T4 results. Given abnormally elevated TSH and euthyroid T4 results, a positive anti-TPO Ab test provides strong evidence for early, subclinical autoimmune disease. This assay is also used to monitor response to immunotherapy, to identify at-risk individuals (with family history of thyroid disease), and as a predictor of postpartum thyroiditis. Approximately 10 percent of asymptomatic individuals have elevated levels of Anti-TPO Ab that may suggest a predisposition to thyroid autoimmune disease. Elevated levels are found in virtually all cases of Hashimoto’s thyroiditis and in approximately 85 percent of Graves’ disease cases.

Historically, Anti-TG Ab determinations were used in tandem with antimicrosomal Ab determinations to maximize the probability of a positive result in patients with autoimmune disease. Although the prevalence of Anti-TG Abs in thyroid autoimmune disease is significant (85 percent and 30 percent in Hashimito’s thyroiditis and Graves’ disease, respectively), it is much lower than the prevalence of the Anti-TPO Abs. The diagnostic information provided by Anti-TPO assays is rarely improved upon by the addition of an Anti-TG determination. The growing trend is to adopt the anti-TPO Ab test as the front-line test for autoimmune disease and no longer to routinely use the anti-TG assay routinely for this purpose. Because anti-TG Abs constitute an interference in thyroglobulin (TG) assays, another major use of the anti-TG test is to screen samples that have been submitted for thyroglobulin determinations.

Thyroid-stimulating antibodies (TSAb) are present in more than 90% of Grave’s Disease. TSH receptor-binding inhibitory immuno-globulins (TBII) are present in atrophic form of Hashimoto’s Disease, maternal serum of pregnant women (predictive of congenital hypothyroidism) and myxedema

Thyroid Binding Globulin (TBG)

TBG remains an esoteric thyroid function test that is useful for the differential diagnosis of patients presenting with significantly abnormal levels of total thyroid hormone levels but no other clinical signs or symptoms of thyroid disease. Depending on genetic determinants, the patient’s health status (including pregnancy), and medication, TBG levels can vary widely from very elevated to very low. Total hormone levels also adjust accordingly, to maintain free thyroid hormone levels within the euthyroid range. In certain situations, the knowledge that grossly abnormal thyroid hormone levels are not the consequence of a thyroid disorder may be very reassuring. Although not widely used, there has been some interest in the ratio of total T4 to TBG (thyroid hormone bonding ratio) as an index of free T4 levels.

Thyroglobulin (TG)

TG is only produced by thyroid tissue and this makes it an extremely specific marker for functioning thyroid tissue. The complete absence of TG provides strong evidence for the absence of any functioning tissue. Thus tests for remaining thyroid tissue are particularly important for monitoring thyroid cancer patients for residual, metastasized, and recurring thyroid tissue after the thyroid has been completely removed. Historically, the only procedure available for this purpose has been the total body scan. An appropriately sensitive TG assay offers a powerful complementary procedure that may in certain situations reduce reliance on the far more invasive total body scans. Anti-Tg antibodies interfere in the TG assay, and TG results may therefore not be reported for serum samples that are positive for these antibodies.

Radioactive iodine uptake (RAIU)

RAIU primarily measures the activity of the thyroid’s active iodine pump which is regulated by TSH. It is not used for initial documentation of hyperthyroidism, but as a secondary test to differentiate between “true” and “other” forms of hyperthyroidism. Thus thyroidial RAIU is elevated in “true” hyperthyroidism including TSH-secreting primary adenomas and PPTH, Graves Disease, trophoblastic disease, toxic adenoma and multinodular goiter. In hypothyroidism RAIU may be elevated, low or normal, and change over time due to the transient nature of some forms of some of the disease states.

With so many different symptoms and so many different organ systems potentially affected by thyroid system dysfunction, one might think that a diagnosis would be easy. However, in spite of the available blood tests for thyroid/pituitary/liver/adrenal function, the diagnosis is often missed.(1,2) One of the most common mis-conceptions regarding thyroid function is the assumption that and reliance on the requirement that the diagnosis of hypothyroidism depends on an elevated TSH level. Normally, the pituitary gland will secrete Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (hence TSH) in response to a low circulating thyroid hormone level. This is thought to reflect the pituitary’s sensing of inadequate thyroid hormone levels in the blood that would be consistent with hypothyroidism. There is no question that an elevated TSH can confirm the diagnosis of hypothyroidism, but it is far too insensitive a measure, in other words the vast majority of patients who have hypothyroidism do not have an elevated TSH level. Some have suggested that perhaps the upper limit of what is considered normal is too high, instead of the normal TSH range being from 1.0-4.5, the range of normal for TSH should be 0.5-1.5. In that way more patients would be considered hypothyroid.

Furthermore, the lab level of TSH tends to vary throughout different times during the day making it less useful to rely on as the average level. MSG (monosodium glutamate) and stress tend to lower the TSH level, for example.

The most commonly used tests of thyroid hormone levels (note that I use the term level rather than function because the two are not always equal) are the T4 (or total T4), T3-uptake, FTI (also called the T7 or Free Thyroxine Index), and total T3 (sometimes called the T3-by-RIA). These tests are also unreliable because they do not reflect the hormone level that is actually available for action. Only the free T4 and free T3 are available to act on the cells. The total T4 and total T3 (as is most commonly measured) is a mixture of protein-bound T4 and T3 (and therefore not available to the cells) and the free T4 and T3. A large percentage of patients have low levels of the free T4 and free T3 even when all the other more commonly used tests are normal. Complicating the problem is the fact that these symptoms may present themselves while all the usual blood tests (TSH, FI, Total T3, etc) appear to be normal. When patients with Free T4 and Free T3 hormone levels below normal with or without an elevated TSH are given appropriate therapy, many report a tremendous improvement in the symptoms classically associated with hypothyroidism. Even when the labwork does not indicate low thyroid levels, many patients appear to fit the profile for low thyroid action. In fact, many of the best thyroidologists use the response to therapy as the major determinant of whether or not the patient was in fact hypothyroid. The diagnosis was confirmed by the response to the proper therapy. Even many of the most prestigious textbooks validate this approach.

What are the lab tests for thyroid function?

The standard tests of thyroid function are serum levels of TSH, total T4, Free T4, T3, T3 uptake, Free T3, the T4 to T3 ratio (also known as “T7”), anti-peroxidase and anti-microsomal antibodies. Most physicians order a T4 as part of a general metabolic panel (if they have any interest in the thyroid at all). Physicians monitoring response to thyroid medication generally watch the TSH as an indicator to direct the dosage of Synthroid (T4) or other hormone replacements. Older tests like protein-bound iodine and basal metabolic rate are rarely used today. Another rare test, the TSH stimulation test challenges the pituitary with an injection of TRH. A lack of response indicates pituitary hypofunction or hypothalamus/pituitary hypofunction. If this test is positive, imaging such as CT and MRI are required along with other neurological tests to look for anatomical lesions of the brain, pituitary, and hypothalamus. Uses for the tests are listed below:

  1. A high TSH and low T4 and T3 indicate thyroid gland disease.
  2. High T4 to T3 ratio (T7) or a high r-T3 (another rare test) are suggestive of peripheral cellular resistance as these levels indicate a decreased conversion of T4 to T3. Decreased conversion may also be due to selenium deficiency or mercury toxicity. If this ratio is high in conjunction with a high serum or 24-hour urine cortisol, this may indicate cortisol-induced decrease of T4 to T3 conversion.
  3. Free (unbound) T4 is perhaps the best early indicator of hypothyroidism.
  4. High free T3 is the best early indicator of hyperthyroidism.
  5. T3 uptake and total T4 levels rise or fall together with hyper or hypothyroidism. If the levels diverge, the cause is more likely to be due to abnormalities in transport binding proteins.
  6. High T4 and low T3 uptake indicate excess thyroid binding protein.
  7. Low T4 and high T3 uptake indicate low thyroid binding protein.
  8. R-T3 is abnormal in starvation, cirrhosis, insulin-dependent diabetes and conditions of elevated cortisol such as Cushing’s disease.
  9. FTI is calculated by multiplying T3 uptake by total T4. This is used as a measure of Free T4.
  10. The anti-peroxidase and anti-microsomal antibodies indicate auto-immune diseases such as Grave’s or Hashimoto’s.

Since these conditions are associated with hyperthyroidism, I will not discuss them here other than to point out that following a hyperthyroid episode, these enzymes inhibit the production of thyroxine. They also bind with cells of the adrenals, pancreas and parietal cells of the stomach.

What other tests can be used?

The most important single test for thyroid function is basal temperature. The reason for this is that thyroid hormone increases the conversion of ATP to ADP to power all the metabolic functions of the cell. In that conversion, 50% of the energy is released as heat. That heat is needed to maintain bodily functions by maintaining the proper temperature range for enzymatic activities necessary for life. Body temperature is a good measure of basal metabolic rate and is cheaper and simpler to perform than measuring the rate of conversion of oxygen to carbon dioxide, which is the “gold standard” measure of metabolic activity.

Here is a great thyroid website:
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/optimal-labs.html

https://www.hashimotoshealing.com/thyroid-lab-tests-a-view-from-the-inside/


TL;DR:

What are thyroid function tests?

These are blood tests that check how well your thyroid is working. Your thyroid gland makes hormones that control your metabolism (how your body uses energy).

Types of thyroid function tests:

  • TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone): This test is often the first one done. A high TSH level may mean hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) and a low TSH level may mean hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid).
  • Free T4 (thyroxine): This is the main thyroid hormone. A low free T4 level with a high TSH usually confirms hypothyroidism. A high free T4 level with a low TSH level usually confirms hyperthyroidism.
  • Total T4: This test measures all the T4 in your blood, including the inactive form that’s bound to protein. It’s not as reliable as the free T4 test.
  • Total T3 (triiodothyronine): Another thyroid hormone. This test is not done as often as the others.
  • Antithyroid antibodies: These tests can help diagnose autoimmune thyroid disease, which is an attack on the thyroid gland by your immune system.

Other tests sometimes used:

  • T3 resin uptake: This test measures how well thyroid hormone binds to protein in your blood. An abnormal result may mean there’s a problem with thyroid hormone transport, not necessarily a thyroid problem.
  • Reverse T3 (RT3): This is an inactive form of T3. Levels may increase during illness and can be misleading.
  • Thyroglobulin (Tg): This is a protein made by the thyroid gland. It’s measured to see if there’s any thyroid tissue left after treatment for thyroid cancer.
  • Radioactive iodine uptake (RAIU): This test is not commonly used anymore. It measures how well your thyroid gland is taking up iodine, which is needed to make thyroid hormones.

Things to consider:

  • Some illnesses can affect the results of thyroid function tests.
  • The level of TSH can vary throughout the day.
  • Some medications can affect thyroid function tests.
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The TSH Reference Range Wars: What’s “Normal?”, Who is Wrong, Who is Right…

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There is ongoing controversy about whether reliance on the TSH test – to the exclusion of clinical symptoms and other tests such as Free T4, Free T3, and antibodies tests – is medically sound. That is a controversy that is unlikely to be decided for years. The situation today, however, is that the majority of physicians do rely almost exclusively on the TSH test to detect thyroid disease, and monitor the effectiveness of treatment.

Surprisingly, however, while the medical community does rely on the TSH test, there is complete disagreement within the community as to what constitutes the “normal range.”

What Do High and Low TSH Levels Mean?

The Big Lie Your Doctor is Telling You About Thyroid Treatment

Only reverse T3 was associated with mortality.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2016 Nov;101(11):4385-4394. Epub 2016 Aug 23

Serum Thyroid Function, Mortality and Disability in Advanced Old Age: The Newcastle 85+ Study.

Pearce SH1, Razvi S1, Yadegarfar ME1, Martin-Ruiz C1, Kingston A1, Collerton J1, Visser TJ1, Kirkwood TB1, Jagger C1.

Abstract

CONTEXT:
Perturbations in thyroid function are common in older individuals but their significance in the very old is not fully understood.

OBJECTIVE:

This study sought to determine whether thyroid hormone status and variation of thyroid hormones within the reference range correlated with mortality and disability in a cohort of 85-year-olds.

DESIGN:
A cohort of 85-year-old individuals were assessed in their own homes (community or institutional care) for health status and thyroid function, and followed for mortality and disability for up to 9 years.

SETTING AND PARTICIPANTS:

Six hundred and forty-three 85-year-olds registered with participating general practices in Newcastle and North Tyneside, United Kingdom.

MAIN OUTCOMES:
All-cause mortality, cardiovascular mortality, and disability according to thyroid disease status and baseline thyroid hormone parameters (serum TSH, FT4, FT3, and rT3). Models were adjusted for age, sex, education, body mass index, smoking, and disease count.

RESULTS:
After adjustment for age and sex, all-cause mortality was associated with baseline serum rT3 and FT3 (both P < .001), but not FT4 or TSH. After additional adjustment for potential confounders, only rT3 remained significantly associated with mortality (P = .001). Baseline serum TSH and rT3 predicted future disability trajectories in men and women, respectively.

CONCLUSIONS:

Our study is reassuring that individuals age 85 y with both subclinical hypothyroidism and subclinical hyperthyroidism do not have a significantly worse survival over 9 years than their euthyroid peers. However, thyroid function tests did predict disability, with higher serum TSH levels predicting better outcomes. These data strengthen the argument for routine use of age-specific thyroid function reference ranges.

Thyroid. 2016 Nov 3. [Epub ahead of print]

The association between changes in thyroid hormones and incident type 2 diabetes: A 7-year longitudinal study.

Jun JE1, Jin SM2, Bae JC3, Jee JH4, Hur KY5, Lee MK6, Kim TH7, Kim SW8,9, Kim JH10.

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Thyroid hormones are important regulators of glucose homeostasis; however, the association between thyroid hormones within the reference range and type 2 diabetes remains unclear. The aim of this study was to clarify the incidence of type 2 diabetes according to the baseline levels and changes of thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) and thyroid hormones (free thyroxine [FT4] and triiodothyronine [T3]) in euthyroid subjects.

METHODS:
Among the participants who consecutively underwent thyroid function tests between 2006 and 2012 through a yearly health check-up program, 6,235 euthyroid subjects (3,619 men and 2,616 women) without diabetes were enrolled in the study. The change in each hormone was calculated by subtracting the baseline value from the level at the end of follow-up or 1 year before the diagnosis of diabetes.

RESULTS:
During 25,692 person-years of follow-up, there were 229 new cases of type 2 diabetes. After full adjustment for potential confounders including HbA1c and fasting glucose in Cox proportional hazards models, the individuals in the highest tertile of TSH change (2.5 to 4.2IU/mL) had a greater risk of incident type 2 diabetes (hazard ratio


=1.44, 95% confidence interval [CI]: 1.04 - 1.98, p for trend = 0.027) in comparison with individuals in the lowest tertile (-4.1 to -0.5 IU/mL). Simultaneously, the highest tertile of T3 change (16.3 to 104.7 ng/dL) and FT4 change (0.2 to 1.6 ng/dL) conferred protective effects against diabetes (HR = 0.60, 95% CI: 0.43-0.85, p for trend = 0.002 and HR = 0.34, 95% CI: 0.24 - 0.48, p for trend < 0.001, respectively) compared to those in the lowest tertile (-76.5 to -1.8 ng/dL and -0.6 to 0.0 ng/dL, respectively). These associations remained significant when each of the hormones was analyzed as a continuous variable. However, baseline levels or tertiles of TSH and thyroid hormones were not associated with the risk of diabetes.


CONCLUSIONS:
Individual changes in TSH and thyroid hormones even within the normal reference range were an additional risk factor of incident type 2 diabetes.


TL;DR:
There’s disagreement about how to diagnose thyroid problems.

  • Most doctors rely on TSH tests, but the “normal” range is debated.
  • Some studies suggest other tests, like free T3 and reverse T3, might be more useful.
  • These studies also suggest changes in hormone levels, even within the normal range, might be linked to health problems like diabetes.

There’s more research needed, but doctors might need to consider more than just TSH tests in the future.

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Types of Hormone Axes and Their Functions

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Optimal vs Normal Thyroid Levels for All Lab Tests & Ages

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The Difference Between “Optimal” and “Normal”

Thyroid hormones, like other hormones in the body, exist on a spectrum.

What this means is that your thyroid levels are not “black and white”.

The amount of thyroid hormone that you need differs from the amount of thyroid hormone that someone else needs.

So why do Doctors insist on following the reference ranges given by labs?

To understand this you must understand how labs create these reference ranges.

Reference ranges represent values based on standard deviations of the local population (1).

This is also the reason that each lab has different values for their tests!

The actual lab values differ among populations, locations, and ethnicities.

So how can we take something so complex and boil it down to simple reference range endocrinology?

The practice of medicine that is relegated to numbers rather than symptoms and the clinical picture of the patient?

Part of the reason has to do with how complex it would be to find the “perfect” dose for each patient, but just because it’s difficult doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be attempted.

Because of the way that lab values and reference ranges are created, we have a situation in which there are two ways to look at thyroid hormone in the serum (this applies to all hormones).

The first is to compare your specific values to that of the standard reference range.

In this approach, you are simply looking at the value of your thyroid lab tests and determining if they fall within the large range provided.

If you fall within the range then you are considered “good” and no more treatment is required.

This practice is known as reference range endocrinology and is a way to standardize hormone therapy.

This is also the same approach that MOST Doctors use when analyzing hormone levels and thyroid levels.

A second approach, and perhaps a better approach for many people, is to look at the value within the reference range and compare this value to the clinical picture of the patient.

If the value is at the low end of the reference range then perhaps it’s worth considering that even though the value is technically normal, it may not be normal for that person, especially in the face of abnormal symptoms.

Consider this example:

Testosterone tends to peak in men in their teens and then slowly decline over time (2).

This gradual decline (which occurs with many hormones) should change how doctors look at testosterone levels based on the age of the patient.

A 50-year-old man should (and will) have different testosterone levels than a 20-year-old man.

You would think that this would be obvious, but the reference range is the same for ALL men older than 18 and up into their 80s.

So, using this approach, a Testosterone level of 200 in a 50-year-old is no more concerning than a testosterone level of 200 in a 20-year-old because technically they both fall within the “normal range”.

Obviously, the testosterone level of 200 is MORE concerning to the younger patient because this is a time when testosterone should be near the PEAK.

The bottom line?

Using a combination of age AND the clinical picture will allow for tighter control of hormone replacement therapy.


TL;DR:
“Normal” thyroid levels based on lab tests might not be optimal for everyone.

  • Labs use population averages to define “normal” which can vary by age, location etc.
  • Doctors often just check if your results fall within this range.
  • A better approach might consider your specific symptoms and how you feel within the normal range.

The example of testosterone levels in young vs old men is used to illustrate this point.

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Diagnosis of Thyroid Dysfunction and Its Treatment

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The first signs of thyroid disorder are typically related to symptoms like fatigue, weight gain, cold intolerance, hair loss, sexual dysfunction, etc. and blood screening of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) with other thyroid hormone biomarkers including free thyroxine (T4, free). Unfortunately, some physicians only measure TSH as a way to diagnose low or high thyroid function. Even though some guidelines suggest a TSG range of 0.4-4.5 micro IU/mL, some patients may be experiencing hypothyroidism symptoms at TSH levels above 3 due to occult Hashimoto’s disease or other issues, so it is always a good idea to perform a thyroid panel that includes not only TSH but also free T3 and free T4. There is ongoing controversy about whether reliance on the TSH test – to the exclusion of clinical symptoms and other tests such as Free T4, Free T3, and antibodies tests – is medically sound. That is a controversy that is unlikely to be decided for years. The situation today, however, is that the majority of physicians do rely almost exclusively on the TSH test to detect thyroid disease, and monitor the effectiveness of treatment.

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Armour, Desiccated, Levothyroxine, & Liothyronine- Differences

Explaining the Different Thryroid Medications: Armour, Desiccated, Levothyroxine, & Liothyronine

Explaining the Different Thryroid Medications: Armour, Desiccated, Levothyroxine, & Liothyronine
by Jasen Bruce

With the ever increasing price of the brand “Armour Thyroid”, which is a popular thyroid medication we prescribe, I wanted to take a moment to explain the different thyroid medications. We have options for our patients which are a better cost and it is important for you to understand the differences in medication in order to both save money and more importantly receive proper treatment.

The thyroid consists of two hormones known as triiodothyronine (or T3) and it’s prohormone thyroxine (or T4). In conventional medicine many patients diagnosed with hypothyroidism are only prescribed Synthroid/Levothyroxine (T4) by itself. T4 is a prohormone which must convert to the active T3 hormone for the body to properly respond. Some people have an issue converting T4 into T3 and therefore still experience symptoms of hypothyroidism despite showing normal T4 levels. Achieving optimal T3 levels is an important outcome necessary for the effective treatment of hypothyroidism and related symptoms.

Alternatively patients can be prescribed a compounded combination of T3 and T4 to treat hypothyroidism. There are two types of T3 and T4 medications available at our compounding pharmacy; Desiccated T3/T4 combinations and ‘synthetic’ T3/T4 combinations. Desiccated thyroid is what people consider ‘natural’ or ‘bio’ thyroid. This is because desiccated thyroid is extracted from animal thyroid gland tissue. The most common and the type we use is extracted specifically from porcine (pig) tissue, which is believed to be most similar to a human. “Armour” thyroid is a brand name for desiccated thyroid. Desiccated and Armour thyroid are one in the same.

Synthetic thyroid (t3/t4) comes in the form of Levothyroxine (T4) and Liothyronine sodium (T3). Technically even desiccated thyroid, despite being known as natural, still goes through a synthesis in a lab. Common brand names for synthetic versions are “Cytomel (t3)” and “Synthroid (t4)”.

Both desiccated and synthetic T3 and T4 is available as a compounded generic at most compounding pharmacies. Compounded thyroid is much cheaper than using the brand name thyroids like Armour. Remember, Desiccated is the same thing as Armour- Armour is just a brand name for generic porcine desiccated thyroid. When it comes to compounded ‘synthetic’ (liothyronine/levothyroxine) thyroid, unlike with desiccated pharmacists can customize the ratio of T3 and T4 therefore allowing the doctors to adjust the dosage to the smallest detail based upon individual patient response. The nice thing about compounded thyroid medications is that both T3 and T4 are combined in a single capsule whereas the brand name comes in only T3 (Cytomel) or T4 (Synthroid) individually as a tablet and is more expensive.

There is a place for both types of thyroid combination medications. Some patients respond well to desiccated thyroid while others need a combination of liothyronine sodium t3/levothyroxine t4 to respond to treatment. For example, desiccated and Armour thyroid comes in a pre-determined ratio of T3 and T4, usually 4:1 ratio of T4 to T3. As mentioned above, compounded liothyronine sodium/levothyroxine combination can be customized which some patients may need. Another example of why someone may respond to one over the other; since Desiccated thyroid is 4:1 ratio of T4 to T3 and humans are generally 11:1, there may be some who do not respond to desiccated and need liothyronine sodium t3 and levothyroxine t4 at a specific ratio to restore thyroid levels successfully.

There are many patients who respond very well to desiccated thyroid and therefore prefer to have the more ‘natural’ form. Medically, both are found to be safe long term when properly administered and monitored by a trained doctor. Therefore the preferred type to use depends on what works best for the patient.

The thyroid is a butterfly-shaped endocrine gland located in the lower front of the neck. It produces thyroxine or T4, which is converted to tririodothyronine, or T3. T4 production is controlled by thyroid stimulating hormone or TSH, a hormone produced by the pituitary. Hypothyroidism, or low thyroid hormone production, can cause sexual dysfunction as well as depression, fatigue, dry skin and hair, weight gain and increased sensitivity to the cold. Blood tests to measure TSH, T4 and T3 are readily available and widely used.

The thyroid consists of two hormones known as triiodothyronine (or T3) and its prohormone thyroxine (or T4). In conventional medicine many patients diagnosed with hypothyroidism are only prescribed Synthroid (Levothyroxine or synthetic T4) by itself. T4 is a prohormone which must convert to the active T3 hormone for the body to properly respond. T3 is the bioactive thyroid hormone. Some people have an issue converting T4 into T3 and therefore still experience symptoms of hypothyroidism despite showing normal T4 levels. Achieving optimal T3 levels is an important outcome necessary for the effective treatment of hypothyroidism and related symptoms.

Alternatively, patients can be prescribed a compounded combination of T3 and T4 to treat hypothyroidism. There are two types of T3 and T4 medications available at our compounding pharmacy; Desiccated T3/T4 combinations and “synthetic” T3/T4 combinations. Desiccated thyroid is what people consider “natural” or "bioidentical’ thyroid. This is because desiccated thyroid is extracted from animal thyroid gland tissue. The most common and the type we use is extracted specifically from porcine (pig) tissue, which is believed to be most similar to a human. “Armour” thyroid is a brand name for desiccated thyroid. Desiccated porcine thyroid and Armour thyroid are one in the same.

Synthetic thyroid medications come in the form of Levothyroxine (T4) and Liothyronine sodium (T3). Technically even desiccated thyroid, despite being known as natural, still goes through a synthesis in a lab in order to be manufactured into a usp raw material to be used in a tablet or capsule. Common brand names for synthetic versions are “Cytomel (liothyronine)” and “Synthroid (levothyroxine)”.

Both desiccated and synthetic T3 and T4 are available at Empower pharmacy. Compounded thyroid is much cheaper than using the brand name thyroids like Armour. Remember, desiccated is the same thing as Armour- Armour is just a brand name for generic porcine desiccated thyroid. When it comes to compounded “synthetic” (liothyronine/levothyroxine) thyroid, pharmacists can customize the ratio of T3 and T4, therefore, allowing the doctors to adjust the dosage to the smallest detail based upon individual patient response. Desiccated thyroid is only available in specific ratios. The nice thing about compounded thyroid medications is that both T3 and T4 are combined in a single capsule whereas the brand name comes in only liothyronine (Cytomel) or levothyroxine (Synthroid) individually as a tablet and can be more expensive.

There is a place for both types of thyroid combination medications. Some patients respond well to desiccated thyroid while others need a combination of liothyronine sodium t3/levothyroxine t4 to respond to treatment. For example, desiccated and Armour thyroid comes in a pre-determined ratio of T3 and T4, usually 4:1 ratio of T4 to T3. As mentioned above, compounded liothyronine sodium/levothyroxine combination can be customized which some patients may need. Another example of why someone may respond to one over the other; since Desiccated thyroid is 4:1 ratio of T4 to T3 and humans are generally 11:1, there may be some who do not respond to desiccated and need liothyronine sodium t3 and levothyroxine t4 at a specific ratio to restore thyroid levels successfully.

Which Is The Best Thyroid Drug For Hypothyroidism?

“Many Hypothyroid Mom readers ask which thyroid drug is best. My answer is always the same, “I wish there was one thyroid drug that worked for all of us but the reality is that we each react differently to the different medications. We must work closely with our doctor to investigate which treatment is ideal for us and what dosage is optimal.” The key is that you must know all the treatment options to ensure your doctor is exploring the options to find what’s right for you. If you are being treated with thyroid hormone replacement medication but you still don’t feel well, insist on further exploration. If you are still not feeling well, get a second opinion, a third opinion, even ten medical opinions until you find a doctor that explores the options to find what’s right for YOU.”


TL;DR:
This article explains two main types of medication for hypothyroidism:

  • Desiccated thyroid (brand name Armour): This is a “natural” option, made from animal thyroid glands. It contains a mix of T4 and T3 hormones in a pre-set ratio.
  • Synthetic thyroid (Levothyroxine, Liothyronine): This medication is man-made and comes in separate pills for T4 and T3. Doctors can adjust the dosage of each to fit the patient’s needs.

The article says both options are safe and effective, but which one works best depends on the individual patient. Some people may respond better to the pre-set ratio of desiccated thyroid, while others may need the customizability of synthetic thyroid.

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I haven’t been online since first talking to @Dani_Shugart about this a few days ago, but thank you for the thread idea, and thank you, @Andrewgen_Receptors, for getting it started. You got it off to a much more helpful start than I would’ve. I don’t expect many (but maybe I’ll be surprised) posters to have a ton of knowlege about this, but it’ll be nice to have a place to gather any material that might be helpful for future reference. @QuadQueen - you always have helpful things to say regarding nutrition. Is any of this in your wheelhouse?

@Dani_Shugart - I will check out “The Thyroid Fixer”! Seeing that podcast title actually is what made me think to check with you. Hopefully they’ve got some good stuff. And I’ll have to look more into progesterone.

She is about to turn 42, and I believe takes levothyroxine. I think the dosage has changed over time as she has noticed side affects or not noticed desired affects. I’m not quite sure.

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I am reposting most of the original post from Dani’s log that started this thread, for anyone looking for any background info of why I am asking. If anyone else has their own situations to consider or wants to know different thyroid-related things, please feel free to say whatever.

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This is such a fantastic thread! I’m going to share it on T Nation’s Twitter because thyroid issues are pretty common, and this has the potential to help a lot of people. Thanks again @Andrewgen_Receptors for the time you spent gathering info and getting this thread rolling.

And thanks @jshaving for asking such a great question to begin with! You guys are the best!

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Great collection of information on this thread. I would just add that excessive thyroid supplementation in the pursuit of “optimal” levels may be harmful as well. Here are some resources that outline the “live fast, die fast” relationship between thyroid hormone and longevity:

Experimental models in animals demonstrate the effects of higher levels of thyroid hormones in otherwise healthy animals. An excerpt from the following paper:

THs are known to accelerate basal metabolism and increase oxygen consumption, thus leading to increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) production and oxidative stress 22,23. Additionally, THs are able to unsaturate membrane phospholipids, leading to membrane damage and mitochondria lipid peroxidation 24,25. Such pro-oxidant effects are tissue-dependent, with liver and heart more subject to oxidative stress than spleen and glycolytic muscle fibers 26. However, THs can also affect the cell antioxidant status, directly (iodine compounds act as free radical scavengers able to reduce oxidative damage in vitro) 27,28 or indirectly, by stimulating or inhibiting the activity of antioxidant enzymes 29,30 and free radical scavengers 31. Such an ambivalence in producing and counteracting oxidative stress has lead to controversial results about pro-oxidant or anti-oxidant activity by THs 31-38.

Recently, it has been demonstrated that binding of triiodothyronine (T3) to thyroid hormone receptor B (THRB) induces DNA damage and cell senescence. The mechanism of such a THRB mediated disruption of cell homeostasis is related to the activation of ataxia telangiectasia mutated (ATM)/adenosine monophosphate–activated protein kinase (PRKAA) signal transduction and nuclear respiratory factor 1 (NRF1), with consequent stimulation of mitochondrial respiration, increased production of ROS, and DNA damage ultimately leading to premature cell senescence 39. Studies in animal models seem to confirm this view. Indeed, several mice models of longevity, either naturally long-living or manipulated and genetic mutant strains, share some commons traits, among which low levels of THs. The naked mole rat (NMR), the longest-living rodent, shows very low levels of thyroxine (0.004 ± 0.001 mg/dl) 40. Moreover, it has been also shown that experimental hypothyroidism increased the lifespan of Wistar rats up to 28 months, while experimental hyperthyroidism reduced lifespan 41. Hypothyroidism was found associated with reduced ROS generation and oxidative damage, while hyperthyroidism was found associated with an increase in ROS production and a compensatory increase in anti-oxidant defense enzyme levels in several studies on murine models 29,42-44.

Ames and Snell dwarf mice represent an interesting model to investigate the impact of endocrine disorders on lifespan. They are naturally mutant mice characterized by pituitary hormone deficiencies (growth hormone -GH-, prolactin and TSH, and a consequent low level of circulating THs) resulting in small body size and delayed puberty. Ames and Snell dwarf mutant mice were found to live 40-70% longer than mice with normal thyroid hormone levels 45. It is worth noting that these mice not only live longer, but are also an example of successful aging, since they exhibit a less frequent development of age-related chronic diseases, including cataracts, kidney disease, and cancer with respect to wild type mice 45-48. Finally, long lasting administration of thyroxine was found to shorten dramatically their lifespan, though they still lived longer than wild type mice 45. In conclusion, the above described experimental studies clearly suggest that hypothyroid state may favor longevity by reducing metabolism rate, oxidative stress and cell senescence.

There’s a mechanism for harm laid out by the experimental studies: running the metabolism too hot with excessive thyroid hormone increases oxidative stress, leads to premature cell senescence, and premature aging. While humans are not naked mole rats, wistar rats, or ames and snell dwarf mice, we see the same pattern in humans, where lower thyroid function is associated with longer lives. The picture that emerges here suggests a cavalier attitude toward thyroid optimization may cause harm to patients in the long run.

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I don’t have a heck of a lot that I can add and am most certainly not a thyroid expert. The info that @Andrewgen_Receptors and @FunkOdyssey have dropped here is absolutely fantastic though. I learned a whole bunch!! Thanks guys!

On the weight loss side of things for your mom @jshaving, if she’s medicated to bring her thyroid levels to normal ranges, weight loss should be possible. I have had clients that have lost significant weight with hypothyroid that is being treated, but I’ve also had clients in the same situation that have harder times. I’m not sure if that’s all thyroid related, because I have the same responses with folks who have normally functioning thyroids. Some people seem to be more weight loss resistant than others.
Weight loss for your mom isn’t going to come as easy for her as it does for you, for several reasons - she’s older, a woman, and although her thyroid hormone levels might be medicated to “normal” they may not be optimal and/or she may have some other hormone things happening that make dropping pounds tough. Has she had all of her other hormone levels checked too, and has she, or is she going through menopause?

Again, I’m not an expert in the thyroid stuff. I can likely offer more assistance in the diet arena if you want to elaborate on that at all.

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I’ll have to double check, but as far as I know, her thyroid was the only hormone that seemed “wrong.” Again, I’d have to make sure of that.

She has not begun menopause yet.

A likely-TMI tidbit that I feel is possibly (?) pertinent is that she probably has roughly 1 bowel movement/week. And has been like that for most of her life. I remember her sister saying somehow that came up in a conversation when they were in their early teens. It being the only thing she was used to, my mom just thought that was normal, and was surprised that for most others it was a daily occurence. When she mentioned it to her doctor, he suggested Metamucil, but didn’t seem to think it absolutely necessary, as she doesn’t feel constipated or struggle to pass things, she just only feels the need to about once a week. I don’t know if that means she has an extremely “slow” system or something, or if that would have any effect on weight loss.

A few years back when she started trying to lose weight, she just started with small changes - near-daily walking, drinking more water, avoiding the worst foods, etc. Eventually she started doing some stength training, mostly bodyweight - pushups, assisted pullups, goblet squats, GHR’s, etc. Later on she did some weight lifting - squats, RDL’s, presses, etc. Her diet wasn’t perfect during this time, but she was, again, mostly avoiding the really bad stuff - really sugary stuff, fried stuff, etc, and eating, while if not a perfect amount, what seemed like a decent amount of protein and produce. I don’t think she ever tracked calories, as she was just trying to change habits first.

I know over time she felt like she was getting stronger, and thought possibly the lack of change on the scale was because she was building muscle. After a while, I hired her a nutritionist for a few months as a gift, who, if I remember correctly, basically had doing a protein shake with a banana, oats, and maybe eggs, or breakfast; ground turkey and asparagus for lunch; then chicken breast and brocolli for dinner. On certain days of the week she would sometimes have rice with lunch and dinner. Oh, and always a rice cake for dessert, haha. (Who the heck likes rice cakes? I think she usually skipped that.) And on Sundays, she was supposed to fast all day, then have a dinner consisting of a certain amount of calories. I think she almost always went with a salad with salmon from a restaurant she really likes.

She always felt full after those meals, never hungry. That feeling combined with not dropping any pounds led her to suggest that maybe it was too many calories. Her nutritionist didn’t seem to think that was the issue, and from what I remember, just told her to make sure she wasn’t taking bites of her kids’ food as she cooked it and to stick with the program. I think that was frustrating for her, but she stuck with the program and listened to the expert.

She lost some steam after that. She didn’t stop training, although there’s been some ups and downs like most people, and she still tries to at least not eat total crap, but I think she felt that after a few months of chicken breast and brocolli not working, then she just didn’t know what else to try.

Sorry if that was too long! Just wanted to share as much of the story as I could. This was all going on during the end of high school/beginning of college for me, so I was living at home and, being the “expert” in my household (thanks TNation!), we talked about it a lot. I’ve just been around for a lot of the ride.

This shouldn’t have any pull on weight loss. Does she do a good job of staying hydrated? That could help the slow transit time and if she’s never tried a probiotic, that might help too.

Have you ever tried the caramel ones? Some pretty tasty cardboard right there. Lol.

Did she not lose any weight on the diet that the nutritionist put together for her or was the weight loss just super slow?

Not knowing all her details, if I were to give her a baseline super simple plan just to start somewhere I’d probably start with something like:

Breakfast:
3-4 ounces lean protein or low fat/fat free dairy equivalent (cottage cheese, plain Greek yogurt)
1 serving fruit (1/2 cup equivalent) or 1 serving carbs (15 grams CHO)
1.5 fats (1 fat = 9 grams of fat)

Lunch/Dinner:
3-4 ounce lean protein
2-3 cups NON-starchy vegetables
1.5 fats
1 serving carbs - preferably vegetable based (sweet potato, potato, winter squash, beans, etc.)

Optional Snacks (up to 2/day)
2 ounces lean protein or dairy equivalent
1 cup non-starchy veggies or 1 serving fruit
.5 fats

*fats used in cooking count toward overall fat in the meal

If she’s open to it, have her try that for 2 weeks and track everything. Report back and we can tweak until we start getting some results!

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Great thread. Thank for compiling. Same old story that Joe Schmo doctors pretty
much know mostly nothing about mostly everything.

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Sorry for not replying, haven’t been posting much this past week.

The scale might’ve bounced around within a pound or two but that’s probably just the scale. No real weight loss, at any rate.

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to offer that up. I appreciate it (and everything else I’ve learned from your posts!). I ran it by her, and she said at this point in time, she’s not willing to commit 100% to something, and though she appreciates the offer, she doesn’t want to take up anyone’s time if she’s not also promising to fulfill her end of things. Again, we both appreciate the plan and the offer very much though.

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