[quote]lildave wrote:
I NEVER want to have to constantly live in fear of being attacked by someone in North America.
This isnt an attack in anyway. Just my opinion.[/quote]
Freedom has a price.
Police presence here is limited. Cops do a decent job of solving crime they are not very good at preventing it.
Many of us take personal responsibility for our own safety and that of our loved ones.
Others do not, they are considerably more likely to be victimized.
[quote]lildave wrote:
We have insurance. Take what you want. I’ll pay my deductible and get all new shit.
Sure beats having to clean up flesh and blood off the carpet and walls.
Also I bet most break ins that happen while someone is actually in the house arent actually robberies. They are most likely looking for someone.[/quote]
Well thats fine but if someone breaks into my place looking for me, there getting two in the chest.
[quote]lildave wrote:
306,422,648 people live in the states
Per 100,000 people in 2007 their was 5.6 murders, 30 forceable rapes and 283 aggravated assaults. I’d love to see what percentage of those (other then the rapes) is to people that are known to the police (since like I said… most people that get attacked aren’t totally innocent)
Also how many guns used in crimes are actually stolen from homes?
Per 100,000 people 14.7 people died in car accidents (not sure what year… I am thinking 2008), 6.6 people died from falls, and 8 died from poisoning.
Maybe you should put a full roll cage in your car and wear some sort of protective suit when walking since you are more likely to die from that.
YOU CAN NEVER BE TOO CAREFUL![/quote]
Knowing how to posts statistics and numbers is rare quality around here. Too bad you fail at breaking them down. You act as if those numbers are so small that people shouldn’t worry about training themselves or their families to be safe. This is about more than just merely having a gun. Its education in awareness…responsibility…then self-defense. You grossly mistake this for being paranoid.
People take shit for granted and do careless things because they feel they are safe. It shows in everday life…how we drive…work accidents…who we trust…etc. Who are you to question what we have as a right in this country?? You don’t like it or agree with it…that’s fine. But don’t act as if you have all of this figured out. It shows your ignorance and arrogance. Shove it.
This is either an idiotic or naive statement. Will insurance cover you or your wife’s resurrection in case of death during that robbery? Oh that’s right, only avatars of monotheistic religions get that particular insurance coverage.
When all guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Is that it? I guess I’d rather be an outlaw with the potential to fight off other outlaws then.
[quote]
I have nothing against American’s[/quote]
Yes. You do.
Or (and forgive me other T-Nation readers for delving into the hyperbole pool this guy is swimming in) you could look both ways before crossing the street, to you know, prepare you before stepping out into the street. Just like carrying a sidearm would be prevention from getting my shit stolen.
But I forgot you subscribe to the “please, steal my shit, I’m INSURED!” newsletter.
[quote]
I’d also like to know how much of this training actually helps in a real world situation. I can shoot at a target all day long. Doesnt mean that I can shoot at a person. Also doesnt mean that under pressure I will actually think totally straight. [/quote]
So, basically because you would lose your shit during an actual situation, apparently so would everyone else.
You know, I think there are two types of people in this world. There is a train barreling down the tracks about to obliterate granny. Person A watches in horror as the train gets closer and closer, their nerves all locked up, maybe even closing their eyes as granny becomes a grease spot on the tracks. Person B rushes up to granny and pulls her out of the way without thinking. No screams, no standing around thinking “Why won’t someone DO SOMETHING?” Because they are doing something.
I hope for your sake there is a Person B standing around when real life comes knocking at your door wanting to jack your shit and rape your wife because it sounds like you don’t have the balls/ovaries for it.
Oh but that’s right. Something like that would never happen to YOU. YOU’RE special, and besides it’s statitiscally improbable right?
And besides… you’re INSURED!
Living prepared is not living in fear. It’s living knowing you can handle anything life throws your way.
Insurance or not - I like to keep my shit right where it’s at.
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
lildave wrote:
boatguy wrote:
Back to the original question…
Before I deployed a few years ago, i bought my wife a pistol for personal defense while I was gone. Having little experience with pistols, she wanted to attend a course. Since Blackwater’s facility is about 30 min from our house, I sent her down through the 3-Day Pistol course. In three days, she shot over 1500 rounds, doing everything from dry-fire/fundamentals to punching paper to shooting steel. Her skills greatly improved, and she now feels comfortable with the pistol as her last line of defense(after sending the dogs).
For the amount of money spent, it was worth it. I could have gotten her up to speed myself, but didn’t have the time in my pre-deployment workup schedule or access to those type of facilities to really immerse her in it like they did.
See this is what I dont get. Why does she even need a gun.
For the most part the only people that need guns are people that are doing something they really shouldnt.
If she gets robbed… just let it go… I’d hope you have insurance.
I have nothing against American’s but I think for the most part they seem to think they arent as safe as they actually are. I bet your odds of someone actually attacking you are lower than crossing the street and getting hit by a car… Maybe you shouldnt leave the house.
I’d also like to know how much of this training actually helps in a real world situation. I can shoot at a target all day long. Doesnt mean that I can shoot at a person. Also doesnt mean that under pressure I will actually think totally straight. I can see how it can work for military and law enforcement since everytime you are on duty you have to assume that someone is going to try to kill you. I NEVER want to have to constantly live in fear of being attacked by someone in North America.
This isnt an attack in anyway. Just my opinion.
I agree with you. you have an educated opinion
Well americans dont hide in there closet if there house gets broken into, Maybe canadiens do.[/quote]
this statment hits home for me.
my brothers home was broken into couple weeks ago.
his girlfriend who was home at the time,who uses a wheel chair from having MS was beat almost to death.
shes currently in ICU in a doctor induced coma.
they found the people that did this crime,only because she happened to shoot one of them in the process of the beating and they found this person in the hospital with a gunshot wound.
BTW when she heard glass breaking she called 911 which told her to stay in the bedroom and she will be safe,that was until someone kicked the door to the bedroom open and dragged her 90 pound crippled body out by her hair… there are 2 police stations by his house farthest one is 4 miles away.
the police still did not show up until the people were long gone. the response time was about 8 mins they said in the report and thats a typical response time or so they say.
in the end they took what could be grabbed from the kitchen (computers, tv,they tossed the house looking for stuff but left with that and worthless paperwork)
2 people beat and attempted to rape her while another 3 possibly 4 tossed the home looking for stuff.
one person was shot and they all scattered.
if she had not of shot them the police would not have found a half dead woman they would have found a dead one. and no ties to any suspects at all
so stop crying about how guns are bad and you dont need guns to defend yourself.
bad things happen to everybody and I like to have guns like I like to have condoms
I would rather have one and not need it then need it and not have one.
in the end this goes to show that police are ineffective,only people that care about your safety and well being and only people that can defend you is you.
Question for the ppl saying they would shoot someone breaking into their house…
Have you actually ever shot someone?
Have you even ever shot an animal?
Keep talking though.
I’m gonna stand by my opinion that having a gun and even knowing how to use it is pretty much useless in the real world. Point a gun at a person… and then tell me its easy to pull the trigger… btw… I hunt… I have killed animals before… I’m not saying guns are bad… I’m saying that most of you people only have a gun cuz you live in fear. Call it being prepared if you want. At the end of the day me and almost all of my friends live their life without a gun. I have a license and could have a gun at home but I dont. Its at my parents place in a gun safe cuz I know I dont need it.
btw… as far as
How are you handling the fact that someone might shoot you first.
Do you also wear a bullet proof vest… just in case…
What if they shoot you in the head?
[quote]lildave wrote:
Question for the ppl saying they would shoot someone breaking into their house…
Have you actually ever shot someone?
Have you even ever shot an animal?
Keep talking though.
I’m gonna stand by my opinion that having a gun and even knowing how to use it is pretty much useless in the real world. Point a gun at a person… and then tell me its easy to pull the trigger… btw… I hunt… I have killed animals before… I’m not saying guns are bad… I’m saying that most of you people only have a gun cuz you live in fear. Call it being prepared if you want. At the end of the day me and almost all of my friends live their life without a gun. I have a license and could have a gun at home but I dont. Its at my parents place in a gun safe cuz I know I dont need it.
btw… as far as
It’s living knowing you can handle anything life throws your way.
How are you handling the fact that someone might shoot you first.
Do you also wear a bullet proof vest… just in case…
What if they shoot you in the head?[/quote]
obviously you have no clue about the real world, isnt it wonderful when you can live sheltered from harm and depend on everyone else to protect you?
back to this thread topic I think it would be a good idea going through a blackwater training course.
just dont get a big head about it after thinking you can kick anyones ass cause you went through this expensive quasi-military training camp
As far as your story goes MaddyD…
So she is in a wheelchair and has MS?
I’m assuming the gun was on the wheelchair?
If they are trying to rape her and beat the shit out of her how the hell did she grab the gun?
A perfectly healthy person in that situation that is almost beaten to death would have enough trouble grabbing and using a gun. A person with MS… good luck… especially since high stress situations can actually cause “flair ups”…
If the gun was on her. Well… just read what I said again… except the fact that their is no way they wouldnt notice a gun.
uh… one of my friends boyfriends is in the process of getting charged with the murder of 6 people…
notice how I said MOST of my friends dont carry a weapon? She does.
Its sorta weird that her and one other friend (who had issues with fighting the wrong people) have any reason for carrying a weapon on them. While everyone else I know doesnt even think about it… and have lived their entire life without issue.
[quote]lildave wrote:
As far as your story goes MaddyD…
So she is in a wheelchair and has MS?
I’m assuming the gun was on the wheelchair?
If they are trying to rape her and beat the shit out of her how the hell did she grab the gun?
A perfectly healthy person in that situation that is almost beaten to death would have enough trouble grabbing and using a gun. A person with MS… good luck… especially since high stress situations can actually cause “flair ups”…
If the gun was on her. Well… just read what I said again… except the fact that their is no way they wouldnt notice a gun.[/quote]
she is in a wheel chair but she is not in a chair in her home
she crawls around and is perfectly functioning besides her legs.
I have no idea of the situation all I know is I get a call from my brother and he is in a panic
i get to the hospital to hear the officer say that they found one of the guys in a local hospital with a gunshot wound to the right hip,and it was a good thing she was able to get to the gun and shoot him or she may have been killed.
my guess is because she was in the bedroom watching tv at the time she had enough time to crawl over the the dresser where the pistol is sitting on top in plain sight and grab it.
after all she called 911 and the phone and the gun are in the same place usually.
so what are you getting at here?
look, you are an idiot you think that a home invasion or a robbery is mostly provoked.
that only time things happen to someone is because they are doing something they should not be.
well your opinions do not reflect upon the real world which is a nasty place where things are not always logical and do not always make sense.
where you have sayings like “wrong place at the wrong time”
where good innocent people are attacked for no reason at all.
it shows you lived a very sheltered life and thats good for you but your opinion on this mater is not valid
look this is not an anti-pro gun thread so I will not argue with you about this at all and I will not hijack this thread because even though most people around thinks im an asshole I really am not.
point is a disarmed society is a weak society.
one that has to depend on others for protection and …well everything.
please get back on topic here and stop this hijack.
I think its wonderful that a civvy can take a military geared course try and do that anyplace else in the world.
[quote]she is in a wheel chair but she is not in a chair in her home
she crawls around and is perfectly functioning besides her legs.
I have no idea of the situation all I know is I get a call from my brother and he is in a panic
i get to the hospital to hear the officer say that they found one of the guys in a local hospital with a gunshot wound to the right hip,and it was a good thing she was able to get to the gun and shoot him or she may have been killed.
my guess is because she was in the bedroom watching tv at the time she had enough time to crawl over the the dresser where the pistol is sitting on top in plain sight and grab it.
after all she called 911 and the phone and the gun are in the same place usually. [/quote]
So you are saying she crawled over to the dresser grabbed the gun… called 911 … Waited for them to come in and beat her almost to death and attempted to rape her… then after that she shot one of them?
[quote]lildave wrote:
she is in a wheel chair but she is not in a chair in her home
she crawls around and is perfectly functioning besides her legs.
I have no idea of the situation all I know is I get a call from my brother and he is in a panic
i get to the hospital to hear the officer say that they found one of the guys in a local hospital with a gunshot wound to the right hip,and it was a good thing she was able to get to the gun and shoot him or she may have been killed.
my guess is because she was in the bedroom watching tv at the time she had enough time to crawl over the the dresser where the pistol is sitting on top in plain sight and grab it.
after all she called 911 and the phone and the gun are in the same place usually.
So you are saying she crawled over to the dresser grabbed the gun… called 911 … Waited for them to come in and beat her almost to death and attempted to rape her… then after that she shot one of them?[/quote]
ok lets go through this once more
lets say you are in your room watching tv
you hear shattering glass and people in your house
first response would be to go towards the phone correct?
so you call 911 tell them someone is in your house.
now you are saying she waited for someone to crash into her room
are you suggesting that she could hop out the window and run for help maybe hide in the closet? no she had time to go to the phone and the gun which are in the same place.
best guess I have is that she grabbed the gun as she was sitting next to it because she was scared.
someone came in grabbed her and as she was being dragged she shot the guy dragging her,not before they got several shots in on her which in her physical state wont take much to harm her now would it.
and did I mention what kind of gun it was?
no I did not it would be very easy for this weapon to me missed by someone beating the hell out of another person
it was a little .25 auto about 3 inches long in total length
how is that not totally plausible to you?
in the real world here its not like the movies where you have to have an epic fight that lasts minutes to beat someone to death.
she is already on the floor all it would take is 2 grown ass men kicking her a few times to do her in.
but you can not let this go can you, you have to prove your point.
if no one listens you will scream it wont you.
ok fine
you win,hows that
you win and I will not respond anymore. feels good huh.
hows this
your right wow I bet that feels better
[quote]lildave wrote:
Question for the ppl saying they would shoot someone breaking into their house…
Have you actually ever shot someone?
Have you even ever shot an animal?
Keep talking though.
I’m gonna stand by my opinion that having a gun and even knowing how to use it is pretty much useless in the real world. Point a gun at a person… and then tell me its easy to pull the trigger… btw… I hunt… I have killed animals before… I’m not saying guns are bad… I’m saying that most of you people only have a gun cuz you live in fear. Call it being prepared if you want. At the end of the day me and almost all of my friends live their life without a gun. I have a license and could have a gun at home but I dont. Its at my parents place in a gun safe cuz I know I dont need it.
btw… as far as
It’s living knowing you can handle anything life throws your way.
How are you handling the fact that someone might shoot you first.
Do you also wear a bullet proof vest… just in case…
What if they shoot you in the head?[/quote]
In order,
I have absolutely no compunction about killing someone trying to inflict serious bodily harm on me in MY HOME. As far as I am concerned, they are not human, they are animals that act in a predatory manner and they should be dealt with as animals that act in a predatory manner–shot without hesitation.
As for handling the thought that someone might shoot me first, well yeah it could happen. All I know is that when it’s your time, it’s your time, and I’ll not go silently into the night. I intend to fight. Fuck waiting on the police. They can’t prevent crime, and it is a terrible fallacy of our age that they should be relied upon to do so. They solve it. But by then the damage is done. So, I’ll die, but I get to die on my terms, and that’s what matters to me. I live on my terms, I die on my terms. Sure, I’d rather live, but if it’s my time, then I fully intend to meet my maker head up, not begging.
As far as the mindset goes, yes, there is no way–besides facing the situation itself–to truly know whether you will act or hesitate. Hey, all that useless training the military does doesn’t mean that a soldier won’t hesitate in battle and get himself/herself killed. But it sure as hell makes it less likely. That’s why they do it in the first place. Why the hell should that stop you from preparing in a way that seems appropriate to you? A very famous person once said “Chance favors the prepared mind”. I got news for you, being prepared is not the same as living in fear.
I like swords. I own swords. Do I have a legitimate reason to own them? Yes. I like them. That’s my reason. I don’t need another reason, at least in America. I can also use one effectively. I didn’t get a sword because I was afraid of being attacked. I got one because I love midieval history and I love swords and the history attached to them. The fact that I can use one effectively is training. Same with guns. You don’t have to buy a handgun because you’re scared you know. But they do make good insurance policies if you’re properly trained.
Ok, sorry folks I fed the troll. I couldn’t resist that one. Bravo to the trollster.
On topic, I think I will seriously enroll in just about every course I can get my hands on, because it sounds like a helluva lot of fun and I don’t really want to cut my hair and spend 4 years in a barracks just to get trained on all the ways you can use your weapons and how to respond to threats. Of course, I’ll need a better job first, but then it’s on like donkey kong…
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Ok, sorry folks I fed the troll. I couldn’t resist that one. Bravo to the trollster.
On topic, I think I will seriously enroll in just about every course I can get my hands on, because it sounds like a helluva lot of fun and I don’t really want to cut my hair and spend 4 years in a barracks just to get trained on all the ways you can use your weapons and how to respond to threats. Of course, I’ll need a better job first, but then it’s on like donkey kong…[/quote]
Well, we do have The Gun Thread on here that’s gone relatively troll free. Can’t expect to catch lightning in a bottle twice. haha!
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I hear they have civilian training courses. Seems pretty fucking interesting. Anyone have any experience with this or take a course with them?
http://www.ustraining.com/Moyock/MYK_courses.html [/quote]
Irish
I had a friend who took the 5 day handgun course last fall. He was good shooter when he went down but a better one when he came back. I compete against him in Action Pistol and IDPA events.
You will be training with people of various skill levels. Some are active duty Military, others are LE the rest are civilians who feel the need to get better at gun handling and gun fighting. You will get better at both after a course like this. Not cheap but it’s top quality.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
lildave wrote:
boatguy wrote:
Back to the original question…
Before I deployed a few years ago, i bought my wife a pistol for personal defense while I was gone. Having little experience with pistols, she wanted to attend a course. Since Blackwater’s facility is about 30 min from our house, I sent her down through the 3-Day Pistol course. In three days, she shot over 1500 rounds, doing everything from dry-fire/fundamentals to punching paper to shooting steel. Her skills greatly improved, and she now feels comfortable with the pistol as her last line of defense(after sending the dogs).
For the amount of money spent, it was worth it. I could have gotten her up to speed myself, but didn’t have the time in my pre-deployment workup schedule or access to those type of facilities to really immerse her in it like they did.
See this is what I dont get. Why does she even need a gun.
For the most part the only people that need guns are people that are doing something they really shouldnt.
If she gets robbed… just let it go… I’d hope you have insurance.
I have nothing against American’s but I think for the most part they seem to think they arent as safe as they actually are. I bet your odds of someone actually attacking you are lower than crossing the street and getting hit by a car… Maybe you shouldnt leave the house.
I’d also like to know how much of this training actually helps in a real world situation. I can shoot at a target all day long. Doesnt mean that I can shoot at a person. Also doesnt mean that under pressure I will actually think totally straight. I can see how it can work for military and law enforcement since everytime you are on duty you have to assume that someone is going to try to kill you. I NEVER want to have to constantly live in fear of being attacked by someone in North America.
This isnt an attack in anyway. Just my opinion.
Your opinion is pretty silly. People need guns becuase bad people often do things to nice people when they shouldn’t.[/quote]
I agree.
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
lildave wrote:
boatguy wrote:
Back to the original question…
Before I deployed a few years ago, i bought my wife a pistol for personal defense while I was gone. Having little experience with pistols, she wanted to attend a course. Since Blackwater’s facility is about 30 min from our house, I sent her down through the 3-Day Pistol course. In three days, she shot over 1500 rounds, doing everything from dry-fire/fundamentals to punching paper to shooting steel. Her skills greatly improved, and she now feels comfortable with the pistol as her last line of defense(after sending the dogs).
For the amount of money spent, it was worth it. I could have gotten her up to speed myself, but didn’t have the time in my pre-deployment workup schedule or access to those type of facilities to really immerse her in it like they did.
See this is what I dont get. Why does she even need a gun.
For the most part the only people that need guns are people that are doing something they really shouldnt.
If she gets robbed… just let it go… I’d hope you have insurance.
I have nothing against American’s but I think for the most part they seem to think they arent as safe as they actually are. I bet your odds of someone actually attacking you are lower than crossing the street and getting hit by a car… Maybe you shouldnt leave the house.
I’d also like to know how much of this training actually helps in a real world situation. I can shoot at a target all day long. Doesnt mean that I can shoot at a person. Also doesnt mean that under pressure I will actually think totally straight. I can see how it can work for military and law enforcement since everytime you are on duty you have to assume that someone is going to try to kill you. I NEVER want to have to constantly live in fear of being attacked by someone in North America.
This isnt an attack in anyway. Just my opinion.
I agree with you. you have an educated opinion
Well americans dont hide in there closet if there house gets broken into, Maybe canadiens do.[/quote]
Americans are scared of each others.They lock their door. In America people shoot themselves.In Canada we don’t do this.
In 2003 (not sure about the year), there was 5000 murders in detroit. In Windsor, just across the lake in Canada, there was 1 murder. From a guy that was from Detroit.
Detroit pop: 900 000. Windsor: 250 000. Facts don’t lie. For all the people who thinks guns make the world safer, you are wrong.
It could also be the reason you end up dead if you arent sure that when the time comes you will actually use it.
And as far as me being a troll… I have been on here for years and have over 100 posts. Just because I have an opinion and arent afraid to point out the facts doesnt make me a troll.
But obviously some guys on here wont care what is said.