Big Challenge (I Think) for the Group

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Can you post up a sample daily diet for us to look at? It is pretty easy to get “tricked” into eating extra calories without realizing it.[/quote]

8am: Protein bar, coffee w/half & half

10am: 1 piece whole grain toast w/organic peanut butter, 1/2 Low-Carb Metabolic Drive shake (1 scoop + plain seltzer water)

1pm: 8-oz steak, side salad w/vinaigrette dressing, iced tea (unsweetened)

3pm: 1/2 Low-Carb Metabolic Drive shake

5pm: Small chicken salad, iced tea

8pm: 1/2 Low-Carb Metabolic Drive shake

That’s just an example, but pretty representative of a normal day for me. No junk, no refined sugars, no refined flours, etc…

42

8am: 3 eggs, 1/2 cup oatmeal w/blue berries, coffee w/coffee mate?

10am: 1 piece whole grain toast w/organic peanut butter, 1 scoop Low-Carb Metabolic Drive

1pm: 6 oz steak, side salad w/vinaigrette dressing, iced tea (unsweetened)

3pm: 1 scoop Low-Carb Metabolic Drive shake, 1/4 cup almonds

5pm: 6 oz grilled chicken salad, iced tea

8pm: 1/2 cup cottage cheese

This puts you at about 1800 calories for the day. Before you were eating closer to 1300-1400 each day…probably not good for the metabolism.

43

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
This puts you at about 1800 calories for the day. Before you were eating closer to 1300-1400 each day…probably not good for the metabolism.
[/quote]

So, the solution to my out-of-control body fat % is to INCREASE my caloric intake? Just like the answer to my weight-lifting problems is to spend LESS time in the gym! T-Nation is totally Bizarro World… LOL

Okay, I’ll give it a try, while at the same time focusing on the G-Flux concept as we’ve discussed… Frankly, I’ll be totally shocked if this doesn’t work, since you guys have really steered me right so far…

Question, though: Last Thursday in this thread, you recommended that my daily protein intake be 192 grams… Will I accomplish this with your recommended diet?

44


Here is the total breakdown for the diet I posted.

Well…here is the thing, if you take your calories too low, you are going to not only not gain muscle, you will actually lose it. In addition to that, consuming too few calories will signal your body that there isnt enough food around and it will go into starvation mode and slow your metabolism down in order to try to hold onto some fat for future use as energy in the time of perceived famine.

45

Well, now that I have a decent weight-lifting routine (finally!!), it’s definitely time to get my nutrition in order. I appreciate the help so far, but think I’m still not “getting it”…

In the interest of adding more calories, here was yesterday’s diet:

8am: Protein bar, coffee w/Half & Half (I know, I should dump the protein bars! Just trying to use up my current stock…)

10am: 1 piece whole grain toast with organic peanut butter, 2nd cup of coffee

11:30am: 1 scoop Surge, 1/2 can of Spike (followed by Rippetoe Workout A)

Post-workout: 2 scoops Surge, 5gm Creatine

2pm: Chicken salad sandwich on whole grain bread, one glass organic milk

4pm: 1 cup cottage cheese with a few pineapple chunks

6:30pm: Bag of peanuts (330 calories), another cup of coffee (too much?)

9pm: 1 small can tuna in water, 1 organic apple

Seemed like a good plan for a workout day (lots of calories, lots of protein, etc.)… This morning, got on the scale to see that I’m now up to 169 pounds and 21.5% body fat (yesterday was 168 and 20.5%)… So, my body fat really seems to be wanting to skyrocket lately!! I haven’t seen 21.5% in months… I know I’m off-track on my nutrition, or something…

46

speakman, i had a guy come in doing 135lbs on the bench and 155lbs on deads.
in one month he was up to 185lbs bench and a 195lbs deads. actually 205lbs because he got it the next session but you know.

+50lbs bench
+40lbs deads

all done with 3 x 12 and 4 x 8
keep goin on that rippetoe and lets see if your results are comparable.

and yes they were newbie gains, but you’re in the same predicament.
also, he lost about 12 lbs and went from 24% bf to 20%

47

Read Berardi’s “G-Flux: Building the ultimate body” (It is on the start page of T-Nation at the bottom right now)
For pure muscle gain in a newb I wouldn’t usually recommend this HOWEVER judging by your post you have;
1)Hardly any work capacity
2)Very slow metabolic rate
3)F**ked hormone levels
4)Low overall fitness

Thus apart from just lifting you need to make steady effort to actually overhaul your entire metabolic system in order that you can eat more/train harder/gain muscle/lose fat.

Goodluck,
N.

48

hence more reps, more sets to trigger that response

49

Listening to Stronghold and ignoring everything ZeusNathan has posted is not a bad start. Besides the walking that Stronghold mentioned, pay attention to the things you are doing throughout the day that lead to caloric expenditure. Things like parking farther from work, taking the stairs etc. that really add up in terms of calories throughout the day.

For your problem with eating enough protein it looks like you have got figured out by supplementing with shakes throughout the day. Be careful with carbs, as your insulin sensitivity may be out of whack as well even though you are not diabetic. Your diet looks closer to ideal with the changes, the only thing I noticed was the half and half in the coffee.

If you are having 3-4 cups a day all with the creamer you are adding in a lot of extra calories that could hurt your progress. I hate black coffee, so what I do is mix a scoop of whey with about a tablespoon or a little more of water so it is thick and use that instead. A little trick to sneak some extra protein into your diet.

For your pullups, instead of just quitting after your five I would suggest doing the negative portion of the movement only for the last three…i.e. step up using a bench or something and lower yourself slowly in like 5-8 seconds and you will get the same effect as if you were doing the last three reps.

Good luck, your attitude seems right on and your on the right track asking for help in the gym and swallowing your pride. Even the biggest, meanest looking dude in the gym usually won’t mind helping another lifter out as long as your not interrupting his sets or something.

50

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
hence more reps, more sets to trigger that response[/quote]

ZeusNathan: Don’t think I don’t appreciate your effort to help me, but I must say that in two years the high reps / high sets approach hasn’t been working very well for me… I know that that aspect of my workout wasn’t anywhere near the only thing I’d been doing wrong, but a strict adherence to the Rippetoe program (3x5, etc.) seems to be the most highly recommended approach for “beginners” here on T-Nation. I think I need to just stick to that plan precisely as written and see how it goes… Almost at the end of my second week, and it does seem like a great program so far!

I’ll take you up on that challenge! Though, really, if I’m serious about strictly adhering to the program, I guess I’m supposed to only increase my weights by 2.5% each week. In my case, this really probably is the best approach so I don’t take a change of re-rupturing the hernia (for example) or who knows what else (remember, I’m 40 years old!)…

Northaway: Stronghold also recommended the G-Flux program to me, and since this seems not only to be be recommended by T-Nationers (as is Rippetoe’s program) but T-Nation has actually written an article about it (just found it), I guess I need to dive in with both feet and trust this program as well! I really feel like, with Rippetoe’s, I’ve got my weight-lifting in order now… Great to think that I might finally get my nutrition in order now, too! Thanks to you and Stronghold for the advice…

One question: Should I expect to see my body fat percentage start to drop immediately? Dumb question, but I want to know how to gauge if I’m doing it right…

51

Hello Speakman, I am also 41 and struggled for several years to make any progress. You have already received some great advise but I wanted to share some things that helped me. I always had trouble gaining muscle without gaining fat. I was previously 220 and not very strong. I dropped down to 170 by running and starving myself. I looked much better but wanted more muscle. I tried to gain for a long time with no progress.

I wanted to go from skinny to muscle without gaining any fat. I didn’t eat enough and this killed my metabolism. Once I started eating enough to gain about 1 to 2 lb.s per month, I started making gains. This took some time to figue out and I had to follow a strict diet. I had to give it time to work. Eating correctly is very important. For gaining, I eat 3000 cal. per day about 1/3 each protein, carbs, and fat and try to limit my weight gain to around 1 lb. I only eat refined carbs after working out. If I eat much more than this, I gain too much fat. If I eat less, I don’t gain muscle.

Also, you need to eat a big breakfast. This is the time to eat whole grains, eggs, fruit, etc… Kick start your metabolism by eating a big breakfast. Also, your tantia scale is for shit as is mine. Don’t use the body fat measurement. It will only discourage you and the number means nothing.

 As for programs, I like TBT.  I think it suits me for my age and the fact that I am still just a beginner.  Rippetoe is a good program.  I followed the program from MADCOW's web site for about 4 months.  I made decent gains.  I tried body splits but they were not as good for me.  Stick with your basic plan and try to make progress.  I think  you will see gains if you get your diet nailed down.  But don't be afraid to gain weight.  Being a former fat boy, you are  probably not going to like gaining the weight.  I know I didn't.

But I beleive you can’t gain muscle without gaining weight unless you are already way over weight. You have to remember that you are not overweight anymore. If you try to drop body fat while adding muscle, I think you will keep spinning your wheels. Magazines and marketing idiots have tried to sell us on the fact that all we have to do is eat like a girl, take fat burners, and lift weights to look like a cover model. That’s because they can’t sell the truth in a bottle. Good luck and I hope your progress continues.

52

[quote]ungs9 wrote:
Listening to Stronghold and ignoring everything ZeusNathan has posted is not a bad start.[/quote]

LOL

More LOL… You guys will love this: I’m a computer programmer and I work out of my house. So, the only “daily caloric expenditure” I get is walking from my bedroom to my office (about 50 feet) and sitting down typing all day. Gee, could this be part of my problem? The G-Flux program is starting to make more and more sense… Sounds like a good way (combined with Rippetoe’s) to ensure that I’m getting some actual movement every day!

Definitely not diabetic (so no worries there), but I’d be shocked if my insulin sensitivity wasn’t way, way off… Anything I can do to work on this? Northaway suggested that G-Flux may be the ticket…

I’ll try the Metabolic Drive in my coffee (great idea!) and also your tip on pullups… Regarding the big guys in the gym, even though my weights are laughable, they seem to respect me a little more now that I’m actually trying to do something! Cool how that works…

53

Bodyfat in most cases will only drop if you are in a caloric deficit; very rarely do you see people add muscle and drop fat and this is usually only in very new lifters with a decent body type. Because you are trying to add muscle you should be well over maintenance with your calories so in short no, you will not see bodyfat go down.
What you should work towards is one goal at time; I don’t have to write this down here, it has been covered in so many articles on this site, see shugs latest article “chasing two rabbits”.

At the moment the general consensuses on this thread is that you would like to add muscle, increase work capacity and metabolic rate. If you do this for a period correctly and make progress in these areas (this being the key) then the next phase of your training; which I am guessing will be fat loss will be much easier.

Also do not use a scale to calculate your Body fat ratio; they are shithouse at best. Don’t sweat the small stuff; put the protocols in place, stick to the protocols and give them time to work - if they fail to work, go back, reassess your plan and implement something different.

“I know I don’t know anything. While I may think I do from time to time, I don’t. The only thing I really, truly know, is how to test what I’m doing. I know how to quantify it…And because I don’t know anything, because I don’t allow myself to make intellectual decisions, if those indicators don’t go the way I want them to, I change things! I try to remind myself that I don’t know anything, I try to stay detached enough to view things objectively. If you don’t do that, you’ll never change things, even when they’re not working. You just get stuck in, “It’s gonna work, it’s gonna work, it’s gonna work.” And it’s not.”
Dave Tate

N.

54

[quote]speakman wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:
hence more reps, more sets to trigger that response

ZeusNathan: Don’t think I don’t appreciate your effort to help me, but I must say that in two years the high reps / high sets approach hasn’t been working very well for me… I know that that aspect of my workout wasn’t anywhere near the only thing I’d been doing wrong, but a strict adherence to the Rippetoe program (3x5, etc.) seems to be the most highly recommended approach for “beginners” here on T-Nation. I think I need to just stick to that plan precisely as written and see how it goes… Almost at the end of my second week, and it does seem like a great program so far!

One question: Should I expect to see my body fat percentage start to drop immediately? Dumb question, but I want to know how to gauge if I’m doing it right…[/quote]

the guy i trained, was 42 years old. and was on a 5 year break before starting up. age is only a number! but yea, hopefully you get up there in your lifts.

and your bodyfat should start to drop as you start to get stronger. dont expect too much, maybe 2-3% in a month.

55

If you work from home, then G-flux is perfect…Im assuming you can take breaks whenever you want? You COULD split things up into three daily sessions…like:

morning: light cardio (ie, walking, yard work, etc)
mid day: weight lifting or intervals
evening: steadey state cardio (fast walking, jogging, etc.)

Remember, the more calories you BURN, the more you EAT, the more effective things will be!

56

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
If you work from home, then G-flux is perfect…Im assuming you can take breaks whenever you want? You COULD split things up into three daily sessions…like:

morning: light cardio (ie, walking, yard work, etc)
mid day: weight lifting or intervals
evening: steadey state cardio (fast walking, jogging, etc.)

Remember, the more calories you BURN, the more you EAT, the more effective things will be![/quote]

Really starting to make sense to me! Kind of like a car: You can never put gas into it and just leave it sitting in the garage, but then the engine stays cold and you never get anywhere. Or, you can fill the tank every day and push the pedal to the floor: The engine runs hot and you can go all over town! Well, not a perfect analogy, but it’s late…

Regarding my schedule, pretty good guess, but not quite. My schedule is very flexible compared to most people’s, but I’m still only able to really break away once a day for an hour or two… So, my current plan is:

Monday: Rippetoe’s
Tuesday: 3-mile run
Wednesday: Rippetoe’s
Thursday: 3-mile run
Friday: Rippetoe’s
Saturday: 3-mail run
Sunday: Day of rest?

What do you think?

57

Observe Stronghold’s last post; we are talking easy cardio to begin with - a 3 mile run 3 days a week does not suit your goals of muscle gain.
N

58

Okay, just wrapped up Week 2 on Rippetoe’s…

Really loving this program! I SEEM to look a little bigger / slightly better defined. I thought I was imagining this until my wife commented on Wednesday (not knowing that I’m doing something new at the gym) that I “look weird” and “too bulky for my body type”… Best insults I ever got! (Wives are so cute sometimes…) I know I can’t look a LOT different than I did two weeks ago, but I guess we’re both seeing a slight change in my physique… Funny that neither of us ever noticed any kind of change with my old program!

A few notes:

Squats and Deadlifts: Kind of impressed with my progress on these… I’m really “feeling” these now, and I THINK my form has already gotten to be pretty good!

Bench Press and Military Press: Since I was doing at least a version of these over the last couple of years, not sure how much gain I should really expect in the short term with these. Admittedly felt pretty iffy on the Military Press today! I’ll attempt to increase my weight on this next week, but maybe not until the following. I’ll prioritize form…

Dips, Hanging Leg Raises, Chin-Ups: Really impressed with how well I’m able to do these! At least well enough to know that I can progress. I swear, a year or so ago I wouldn’t have been able to do one of any of these! So, maybe my lousy program was at least good enough to condition me to start this one. Maybe the last two years haven’t been a total waste… One note on Chin-Ups: I felt a little weak on these today and not sure that I’m feeling much progress.

On the other hand, it occurred to me after the gym that on prior days I wasn’t quite extended my arms all the way on the negative; in other words, I think I was only doing half reps. Then I tracked down a bunch of videos on YouTube (mostly Rippetoe himself) and realized my form was wrong, so I would expect the new approach today (full reps) just naturally seemed a lot more challenging.

Bent Over Rows: Not really sure about my form on these. I’m not really “feeling” this one yet, but I’ll keep working on it. I may need to hold off on adding more weight until I know my back is positioned correctly…

Northaway: You may be right about my 3-mile runs… Maybe that’s why I felt a little on the weak side at the gym today. Just really uptight about the body fat % thing, but the “chasing two rabbits” analogy is really starting to sink in! I guess I need to locate my happy medium where I’m packing on some muscle without packing on an equal or greater amount of fat at the same time! Somehow I get the feeling that this will all just “work itself out” if I just stay consistent with what I’m learning here… (Maybe because you guys keep telling me that!! LOL)

59

Good progress on your numbers; be sure to keep your form deep on the squats and spot on in your other lifts.
Bent rows; don’t be afraid to get ‘over the weight’ but do NOT compromise your back position - keep it tight as shit and concentrate on pulling with your back.
Running 3 miles WILL impair your lifting days; stick to steady state cardio ie. Something like fast walking on an incline or just fast around the block (uphill if possible) for around 30mins-40mins. If you could squeeze two sessions of this in your off days that would be more productive.
Good to see you are getting committed to one goal- post your diet; what are you eating??
N.

60

[quote]Northaway wrote:
Good to see you are getting committed to one goal- post your diet; what are you eating??
N.[/quote]

I posted this about a week ago, but here it is again (just an example):

8am: Protein bar, coffee w/Half & Half (I know, I should dump the protein bars! Just trying to use up my current stock…)

10am: 1 piece whole grain toast with organic peanut butter, 2nd cup of coffee

11:30am: 1 scoop Surge, 1/2 can of Spike (followed by Rippetoe Workout A)

Post-workout: 2 scoops Surge, 5gm Creatine

2pm: Chicken salad sandwich on whole grain bread, one glass organic milk

4pm: 1 cup cottage cheese with a few pineapple chunks

6:30pm: Bag of peanuts (330 calories), another cup of coffee (too much?)

9pm: 1 small can tuna in water, 1 organic apple

I guess this a fairly representative of my current diet scheme. Note that this is after increasing my calories and intake a week ago based on the group’s recommendations…

[quote]Northaway wrote:
Running 3 miles WILL impair your lifting days; stick to steady state cardio ie. Something like fast walking on an incline or just fast around the block (uphill if possible) for around 30mins-40mins. If you could squeeze two sessions of this in your off days that would be more productive.[/quote]

Stronghold, would you agree with this? You seemed to suggest that the running may be alright… Just wondering your perspective (I think you’ve given it to my already, but just for clarification!)…