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Best Cycle for Shoulder Injury and "Stiff" Body?


#1

Hello gentlemen, I have a very unique situation. A situation so unique I am sure many of you will not be able to relate. But I am hoping someone can shed some light on the situation. If you read all of the following I assure you I am truly grateful for your time.

First the Background information- I have been doing martial arts most of my life and running and lifting weights as well, several years ago I was a beast, athletic, flexible, explosive. I had a back injury in training and saw a bad chiropractor which made things go down hill, I battled this back injury as it got worse and it eventfully rendered me inactive, this inactivity lasted a whole year, when I came back to the gym finally my body was weak from the year off but I was stupid and competitive and lifted with old training partners and tore my shoulder lifting in the first couple weeks back. hot headed kid you know? anyways I had surgery on my labrum which went well, but for some reason Physical therapy went horribly, I saw several different PT's and I never got my strength back in my shoulder, Its like I could do the workouts, but the next day or two my shoulder would be inflammed and heal very slowly. I studied PT, watched and read almost everything under the sun, It's been two years since my surgery and I've almost come off the injury several times. The only thing that helps my shoulder is resistance training, lifting light weights through ranges of motions, pushing, pulling at different angles etc. But after I lift weights my shoulder and shoulder blades are stiff for like 3 days which makes training consistent virtually impossible. My internal and external range of motion and strength is poor in both shoulders which indicated rotator cuff weakness. I got a recent MRI and was surprised to see nothing is torn, they said my bicep tendon comes out of the groove sometimes on overhead motions and they don't want to do surgery but rather strengthen my whole body before i start doing overhead motions. as a side note my back injury healed long ago but he total time i've been injured is over 3 years and my whole body is weak and tight since i've never been able to lift consistently, i've been running and doing corework but my legs arn't that strong and they are also tight. My whole body is weak and stiff and I need to become strong and loose. stretching only makes it worse, the only thing that makes it better is the natural stretch and contraction that you get through resistance training.

I am 5'6 140 lbs 22 years old not very strong but I have elected to do a cycle due to my very unique situation.
I have never done a cycle before and I only want to do one hopefully. After my research it seemed that Deca and test would be the best for this since I can't get my hands on HGH. At first I was thinking okay I will do 400 mg of deca and 500 mg of Test like most people recommended for the 12 weeks (and yes i'm aware the half life of deca). But I came across some very interesting information which really threw me off.

The information is from Dynamo_Hum in the thread HGH for bone density
it is long so I will summarize some and cut and paste some. Bascailly he says that while taking test will dramatically increase protein synthesis is will reduce collagen synthesis by 50-80% depending on the amount
injected.
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

so natually after reading this I am now confused and not sure how to approach my situation. Should I really only do 200 mg of deca 200 mg of test? this seems low for a cycle but what do I know? I want to heal, I need to recover faster so I can strengthen my body more consistently but I do what that collegen synthesis increase. I even thought about doing the low dose for the first 6 weeks for tendon repair then week 7-10 for deca and week 7-12 for test amping up the dose, or is that not intelligent? kind of lost here guys. Or maybe given my unique situation there is a better cycle that I could run besides deca and test, maybe add something to it or a different cycle in general...I want to you know have normal hormones a couple months after this cycle is done so i can be natural after this one hopefully. This is why I'm consulting the experts, I would really appreciate your input, and if you read all of this post I must say I am very grateful and thankful for your time.


#2

"Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood."

^this is mostly bullshit. people were spewing these numbers for a long time with no real logical basis....

anyway deca seems to reduce inflammation in the joints, but it doesn't heal them. you'd be better off looking into TB500 or BPC157....


#3

I'd also point out that for joint healing, collagen synthesis is not the end all, be all marker of success. Ligaments and tendons also need elastin. Collagen gives them structure and stiffness, but elastin gives them, well, elasticity. The same is true for cartilage. Both also contain proteoglycan, and I haven't seen ANYTHING in the literature about steroids improving proteoglycan and elastin production. I find the idea that roids help heal joints highly suspect, unless it's a muscle tissue injury.

Another mechanism I've read about (but not researched thoroughly) for why deca provides joint relief, and may also explain why winstrol does the opposite, is the anti-inflammatory properties of progesterone and probably all progestins. Whereas deca adds to this effect, winny is anti-progestagenic.

I plan to test this theory on myself at some point. My wife's doc cleared me to try using her progesterone cream on myself, in small doses, in order to see if it will cause the same joint relief I get from deca. And if it will offset the effects of winny.


#4

it's interesting that an "olde tyme" cycle was deca and winstrol.... i suppose because they countered each other's sides pretty well.

i think it was an Anthony Roberts article i read, where he explained the nandrolone/progesterone receptor, and that DHT/winny blocked that receptor. i'll try to dig that up...

here it is: https://thinksteroids.com/articles/deca-winstrol-joints/


#5

The main reason I decided to try steroids, was due to chronic injuries. They help but I don't know how much of it is placebo, and how much is real. It definitely gives me confidence. I get benefit from it so I will keep employing it as a remedy.
When it all boiled down to it, most of my troubles stemmed from, training too intensely, which left me chronically stiff, effected my posture negatively. Technique and posture is so important, unless you address these issues you will still have problems despite any benefit from steroids. My technique was also misguided, mainly by bodybuilding magazines. I tried to train the target muscle in absence of the stabilisers. eg Benching and focusing only on the pec contraction, pecs were the only stimulus I tried to feel rather than the movement as a whole. Shoulder blades rose up and forward, rather than down and back. Best way to lift is to do a movement naturally, rather than trying to make certain muscles do the work. The stimulus in the pecs should be a bi product of doing the exercise properly.

I suspect the kind of injury/injuries you have are due to this rather than tears or ruptures of tendons, and that is why nothing major is showing up in scans. Scapula stability issues, poor thoracic spine mobility, can cause shoulder pain as tendons are impinged in the shoulder joint.
Little rotator cuff exercises are okay but you are better off improving your bench, overhead press technique, and back exercise technique.
In all of the above circumstances this entails initiating the movement from the scapulas. Seat them by pulling down and back, following them with the elbows, then the hands.
It sounds simple but in practice it takes quite a while at lesser weights than you are used to. lifting.


#6

For the stiffness you will need to foam roll and stretch. By stretching I don't mean trying to do extremes like the splits, or "skin the cat", just gentle, light stretches that you relax into and stay in for as long as you feel comfortable 30 sec -1min or whatever as long as it feels good. If your doing hamstrings all it might mean is lifting your outstretched leg onto a chair. It might not even feel like you are stretching, stay in this position for long enough, the tissues will relax and lengthen. You can increase it more if you like, always stay in the pleasureable zone.
Stretching that most people do is good if you already have a balanced level of flexibility. If you don't and try doing this all you end up is feeling stiffer and more fatigued.


#7

Hey I just want to say thank you all for your advice. I really weighed everything out. cycobushmaster I have looked into TB500 and BPC157 which also led me to look at other peptides, quite a rabbit hole of information. Where should I get TB500 and BPC157 from? From a doctor or is there a reputable source that I can purchase them from? should I take both at the same time or just stick with one? I think your suggestion is much better than the deca. Thankyou.


#8

sorry, we can't post sources here.

however, TB500 and BPC157 are sold by quite a few different research companies....

they work a bit differently. BPC is generally used locally, whereas TB is generally used for systemic inflammation...