Androgen Under-Responder?

Pharma / TRT
41

Most of the taste comes from the binder. But all the legit dbol i used was bitter. I get instant effect from dbol regardless of dosage (yeah even 5 mg works). I have also used fake dbol, which contained methytest. Even that worked to a degreee, more agression etc. I do experience a slight lethargic effect from dbol, but I counter that with a engery drink. Otherwise, I am in a relatively “auto pilot” state, where I feel like a robot, and just pump out endless sets, get so pumped up until i can barely move.

DH, have you noticed any mood enhancement from dbol?
40mg/day is pretty high, I would get gyno and probably up 15 pounds in two weeks, if i use that much.

42

Meph,

No mood enhancement from the dbol. I made sure to dose Adex at around 0.7mg/d. No weight gain either.

43

I suppose the AI have signigicantly reduced the water retention caused by Dbol, and the gains too? I have never actually used Dbol with an AI to this date. I am quite sensitive to this drug, i need no more than 15mg per day to produce great effect. On the other hand, I need quite a bit of test to get going.

44

I wonder about my Adex dosing. True enough the one time when I did get great results with dbol, I was dosing Adex much lower - around 0.25 EOD. I ended up with a bit of a flareup on sensitive nipples, but the gains were awesome. This time round I have been using up to 0.7mg/d Adex while on both dbol and test (40mg/d and 700mg/w respectively). Food for thought. Anyone else whose response to dbol is severly compromised by generous AI dose?

45

Of course. The Estrogen is lower - so the bloat is less - so the strength is lower. Standard.

You still battling with this one then?

46

[quote] Brook wrote:
Of course. The Estrogen is lower - so the bloat is less - so the strength is lower. Standard.

You still battling with this one then?[/quote]

Battling with this cycle or the AI concept? Both I guess. I know the AI theory and practice. I had decent libido and no achy joints so thought I had the dose nailed. What I find surprising is if a marginally high adex dose completely negated dbol effects. I gave 200 5mg tabs to a friend at the gym to try out and see how they work for him.

I did fail to lower Adex enough in the last week or so since I stopped dbol. Now I’ll take a couple of days off Adex and resume lower. Hopefully that will help.

47

I meant the whole thing… as with anything in BB and drug use whether prescribed or self-medicated (self medicating involves quite a lot more than simply taking a prescription drug without a prescription of course)… you need to go with a trial and error approach when something crops up that your experience hasn’t covered.
You personally are in a relatively better position as a newbie to AAS in that you at least have some more knowledge than most newbies… so this should help in determining issues.

The fact of the matter is however - from where i am stood - you had moral/motivation and energy issues before you even touched any exo-hormones. Now you are still having these issues you confusingly are attributing them to the hormones… surely you can see that your problem - even if it is hormonally related in part - is nothing to do with the external application of AAS? (or secondarily so).

I understand you have thyroid issues as well… surely this could be a problem? Are you also on AD drugs? I remember from your first posts your life is full from work, shopping, public transport, casual enncounrers, training… not to mention the addition of Thyroid meds and possibly stimulants… is there a chance you are experiencing adrenal fatigue?

I realise that when one uses AAS, they throw Estrogens and Androgens out of whack - so to speak - and this can have a quite profound effect, often very negative. However i honestly do NOT think your use and self-medication with these drugs is fully to blame (and if partly so, then it is likely due to you fucking with things you simply don’t fully understand - sorry to be harsh).

I remember you recently (and further back) saying that you had a crap first cycle other than the Dbol, and found it wasn’t related to ‘fake’ gear, as your bloods showed a test level in the 1000’s.
The last cycle - just your third, was similar… you feel crap but the gear is likely real - unproven but likely.
The second - how did that go? I seem to remember you got results from it but you ‘expected more’?
I honestly really believe that your ‘issue’ is not fake gear or a low activity at the AR (or whatever) - i think it is unrelated… i think you feel crap, and want AAS to make you feel better - but they dont. I think you have mis-diagnosed yourself, and refuse to try alternative paths.

Why is it that you are so sure AAS are needed to ‘fix’ your problems, when use of AAS have not solved anything? I appreciate you have had minor improvements in all areas such as libido, drive, strength…etc. but not as much as you would expect - maybe you expect too much? Not everyone becomes a raging sex-addict, if it wasn’t there before, it won’t be afterwards either…

You don’t need to reply, i know you believe what you believe - i am just trying to provoke a thought response. :wink:

48

Well, I’m sorry to hear things haven’t gone well for you DH…
I think maybe doing a bit of “unthinking” and just clearing everything out of your system for a while might do you some good for starters. I like Bill R’s first post about how sometimes one’s body just doesn’t want to grow for whatever reasons physiologically.

Don’t sweat it, we’ve all made the wrong assumptions and taken incorrect action during our cycles from time to time, and you’re only human dude. In this game, it is harder than most people let on when judging your gear and whether or not it’s good, and/or “how good” it is…
This has major effects on how you feel, gain etc obviously…

The point I’m making is that your body won’t lie to you, if you feel like shit, somethings wrong somewhere down the line, and don’t blame your self too much if things go weird or not how they should.

Take some time off I say, and “re-boot” your body and mind, and find a rock solid source and get back in the mix with a simple and basic couple of compounds bud.

Best of luck man,

TB

49

[quote] Brook wrote:
I meant the whole thing… as with anything in BB and drug use whether prescribed or self-medicated (self medicating involves quite a lot more than simply taking a prescription drug without a prescription of course)… you need to go with a trial and error approach when something crops up that your experience hasn’t covered.
You personally are in a relatively better position as a newbie to AAS in that you at least have some more knowledge than most newbies… so this should help in determining issues.

The fact of the matter is however - from where i am stood - you had moral/motivation and energy issues before you even touched any exo-hormones. Now you are still having these issues you confusingly are attributing them to the hormones… surely you can see that your problem - even if it is hormonally related in part - is nothing to do with the external application of AAS? (or secondarily so).

I understand you have thyroid issues as well… surely this could be a problem? Are you also on AD drugs? I remember from your first posts your life is full from work, shopping, public transport, casual enncounrers, training… not to mention the addition of Thyroid meds and possibly stimulants… is there a chance you are experiencing adrenal fatigue?

[/quote]

Thyroid numbers are actually decent if not optimal and I’m not medicating for that. No stims except for 3 cups coffee per day.

I skipped Adex frr two days and am feeling a bit better. I’ll continue at lower dose.

Second cycle was test enan only and I enjoyed it.

[quote]
Why is it that you are so sure AAS are needed to ‘fix’ your problems, when use of AAS have not solved anything? I appreciate you have had minor improvements in all areas such as libido, drive, strength…etc. but not as much as you would expect - maybe you expect too much? Not everyone becomes a raging sex-addict, if it wasn’t there before, it won’t be afterwards either…

You don’t need to reply, i know you believe what you believe - i am just trying to provoke a thought response. ;)[/quote]

I am not “so sure”, but just exercising trial and error. :wink:

50

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Well, I’m sorry to hear things haven’t gone well for you DH…
I think maybe doing a bit of “unthinking” and just clearing everything out of your system for a while might do you some good for starters. I like Bill R’s first post about how sometimes one’s body just doesn’t want to grow for whatever reasons physiologically.

Don’t sweat it, we’ve all made the wrong assumptions and taken incorrect action during our cycles from time to time, and you’re only human dude. In this game, it is harder than most people let on when judging your gear and whether or not it’s good, and/or “how good” it is…
This has major effects on how you feel, gain etc obviously…

The point I’m making is that your body won’t lie to you, if you feel like shit, somethings wrong somewhere down the line, and don’t blame your self too much if things go weird or not how they should.

Take some time off I say, and “re-boot” your body and mind, and find a rock solid source and get back in the mix with a simple and basic couple of compounds bud.

Best of luck man,

TB[/quote]

Hey Tonebone,

Thanks for an uplifting word my friend. Sometimes I suspect when we can’t make rythme or reason, we have to listen to our body and chill. Then wait for greener pastures in the future.

Much appreciated…

51

Yea some times it’s better to here some encouraging words rather than some self proclaimed guru spouting off alot of pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.

52

I dropped the adex for the last 3 days and gained a little water weight. I may well have been over dosing. I have been back on the carbs to and gained a few pounds. Would have been good had I made these changes at the onset. I think I am wrapping it up for now. I have a wedding to attend next week and I don’t relish the thought of sweating like crazy.

BTW guys, I moved and am awaiting my Internet connections so my inline time has been restricted to Internet cafes.

53

[quote]winkroar3 wrote:
Yea some times it’s better to here some encouraging words rather than some self proclaimed guru spouting off alot of pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.[/quote]

Are you still here?

54

[quote] Brook wrote:
winkroar3 wrote:
Yea some times it’s better to here some encouraging words rather than some self proclaimed guru spouting off alot of pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.

Are you still here?[/quote]

Take it or leave it mate

55

I didn’t pin this am as planned. Then the inevitable happened. An aquaintance that I hasn’t checked me out in some time starts laying it on about how much mass I have gained and definition. You know the stuff we live for. Needless to say, I went home and resumed. I have enough left for a good two weeks and I have only done 6 weeks so far. The heat is a f’in pain, but with the carbs and 2 more weeks of tren/test - maybe a little dbol - I want to see what I can accomplish.

56

I have gained 4 pounds since adding the carbs and lowering the adex. I cracked 180 lbs today. That’s the heaviest I’ve ever been. It’s mostly water weight but I am finally getting stronger. Added 20lbs to bench today and 5 lbs per dumbell for incline press. Got some more compliments.

57

That is good news! I am learning more and more that carbs are my friend when on a cycle.

58

[quote]BenceJones wrote:
That is good news! I am learning more and more that carbs are my friend when on a cycle.[/quote]

Yes I love those steel cut oats (Irish style) and brown rice in those perforated 10 min. bags…oh both with fat free butter flavouring.

59

Carbs and lower adex have given me more in 1 week than 5 weeks prior on cycle. I am still on test enan, tren, and even added dbol again this morning. I think dbol likes carbs too :wink:

60

[quote]winkroar3 wrote:
BenceJones wrote:
That is good news! I am learning more and more that carbs are my friend when on a cycle.

Yes I love those steel cut oats (Irish style) and brown rice in those perforated 10 min. bags…oh both with fat free butter flavouring.[/quote]

I’ve been using large flake oatmeal. I know steel cut are highly regarded. How long does your oatmeal take to prepare? I nuke mine for 5 mins (even though it calls for 15mins in a pot).

Do you boil the brown rice or nuke it? I have been getting 3 lentil salad with cranberry and almond slivers. That is a great complex carb to go with salmon or any meat.

Also make up some whole wheat pasta and warm up a nice tomato sauce and serve with meat. I added salmon, broccoli, and sweet potato to the sauce the other day. Now that is rib sticking satisfaction.