Androgen Under-Responder?

[quote]Game Time wrote:
Dynamo, have you ever been on a high carb diet? My diet used to consist of low carbs/high fat and I felt like shit (regardless of my calorie intake). Try increasing switching you diet to high carb, see how your body reacts. Diet has a massive effect on mood and gains in the gym (we all know this), maybe it is just the change your body needs.[/quote]

I second this. I did the low carb thing, and even with high calories I always felt like crap. I was tired, moody, and just plain mean.

EDIT: I was having to take naps in the middle of the day after my workout. Instead of partying, I was at home in bed by 9 or 10. I’m a college kid, I should be able to stay up. I was cranky. When we had parties at our house, once I was ready to go to bed, every one else better get out of my way and stay quiet. All this, and I am a nice guy, with a very controlled temper. Even being on Test didn’t make me as edgy as this.

At first, I blamed it on my thyroid medication not being right. Once I added carbs into my diet, ( >300g/day ) I was back to normal. I stopped being rude to people, I started being able to stay up late without getting cranky, and overall life was just better.

If you’re worried about fat gain, at least try the higher carb thing for a month. You’re not going to get insta-fat, and I think you will notice an improved quality of life.

Thanks DOH. I really have got to give this a try.

Oh, and, with all that being said, I do not know your body type.

For reference, I was always the chubby kid, and don’t have too much trouble gaining weight. Even when I added the carbs I didn’t add much extra fat. I kept my intensity up (if not higher because of my new energy) in the gym, and made sure to use those extra carbs for more than just watching TV.

On cycle, I raised my carbs even higher (500g/day,) and didn’t have a noticeable rise in body fat.

Good to know. The timing of increasing carb intake is actually good if I stick with tren since increases nutrient partitioning efficiency. What kind of carbs do you eat? I am in the process of moiving and have zero carbs at my old appartment. I have oatmeal in a box at new appartment. I am thinking sweet potatoes, whole wheat pasta, fruit, oatmeal, chic peas, kidney beans. I will take a walk to the supermarket and get some fruit as I haven’t had any carbs to speak of today and I’m getting antsy to try this out. Certainly would be amazing if this could take the place of a dopamine agonist to lift my morale.

I just ran out to the supermarket and shopped for carbs. I picked up the following:

  1. Kidney beans
  2. Chic peas
  3. Sweet potatoes
  4. Apples
  5. blueberries
  6. Raspberries
  7. Oatmeal
  8. 2% milk

Since I hadn’t eaten any carbs beside broccoli today, I made a bowl of pre-bedtime oatmeal with a generous scoop of blueberries and raspberries. I added 1/2 cup of 2% milk with 1 scoop (27g) of ISO protein powder.

I know pre-bed is not the best timing, but I figured I’d start right away and see if adding carbs will improve my long suffering morale and boost my training dividends.

Tomorrow is my day off training , but I’ll be moving so will get some exercise anyway. I’ll start the day with a similar bowl of oatmeal. Maybe I’ll have some eggs a couple of hours later.

I personally eat whole wheat bread, reduced sugar jelly, sweet potatoes, beans, brown rice, and bananas (pre-workout.)

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
I personally eat whole wheat bread, reduced sugar jelly, sweet potatoes, beans, brown rice, and bananas (pre-workout.)

[/quote]

All that pre-workout or only banana? What kind of beans? What did you think of my list? I have been thinking of oats in my pre-workout shake. Do you know what kind mix in OK and don’t cause too much of a spike? I don’t want to crash. Also, how does the banana work for you pre-workout? That’s only 30g of carbs?

Just the bananas. I eat a large carb + protein meal an hour before the gym. I usually eat a large banana right as I get to the gym. I sip whey isolate through my workout (sometimes also a Gatorade, depending on how I feel,) and have a serving of Surge at the end. I never crash during my workouts. As long as I get up early enough before my workout and get plenty of morning calories, I feel fine through my workouts.

I stick to kidney beans, but I’d say most beans are good. Just read the labels.

Your list looks good. I don’t believe apples have much to offer besides sugar, so make sure you’re eating them early in the day.

Also, I am drinking a half gallon of whole milk a day. That’s ~100 carbs right there. I try to get most of the half gallon in before my workout, which is usually around 1pm. Milk has a high insulin response, so get it in early in the day. If it would stay cold, I would drink it peri-workout. I love me some milk, ha.

I personally don’t eat oats, just because I’m not too much of a fan. If you like them, keep eating them.

EDIT: If this thread dies, keep me updated via PM or some other means on whether or not your mood changes.

Keep going DH. Remember tren sides hit hard before tren gains for many [me]

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
Just the bananas. I eat a large carb + protein meal an hour before the gym. I usually eat a large banana right as I get to the gym. I sip whey isolate through my workout (sometimes also a Gatorade, depending on how I feel,) and have a serving of Surge at the end. I never crash during my workouts. As long as I get up early enough before my workout and get plenty of morning calories, I feel fine through my workouts.[/quote]

This is the key, the carbs and protein during the workout (and plenty in the system from an hour or so before).
The banana wont do much, the fructose in it will only go to replenish liver gylcogen, and you honestly would not notice the difference between having a banana or not, as long as you have the gatorade and whey.[quote]

Your list looks good. I don’t believe apples have much to offer besides sugar, so make sure you’re eating them early in the day.[/quote]

Fructose, again actually. But i find them useful to eat with faster carb sources to provide some necessary fibre.
Other than that, and as a nice healthy snack, you would be right.[/quote]

Thanks DOH. Much appreciated.

Saps: Great to have you drop by with an encouraging word.

Saps, I second that.

DH, may i suggest 10mg dbol pre-training. Really stacks well with whey and banana, it adds some punch to those 30grams of carbohydrate.

[quote]mephistopheles wrote:
Saps, I second that.

DH, may i suggest 10mg dbol pre-training. Really stacks well with whey and banana, it adds some punch to those 30grams of carbohydrate. [/quote]

Meph: dbol hasn’t been working very well for me. Unless it is related to my (now former) low carbs diet too. I have 5mg Thai pinks up the hoop (900 or so left) which I ran at 40mg/d for two weeks and felt no strength increase? They taste bitter and look legit so it may be me? I also have some dbol blend destined for caps that I have tried pre-workout for several days after not seeing effects from the Thai pinks. Didn’t feel any increase on that either even at up to 30mg 1 hr pre-workout dose. You think the nutritional changes may have some impact on this?

FWIW i cannot use even 10mg of Dbol ‘pre-training’ as it makes me more lethargic and (while physically strong,) weak in strength of mind leading to lowered effort and lowered volume.

I generally try to dose all my Dbol PWO, so it is virtually gone when i return to the gym. Not the best way to use, but still very effective over not using it.

As for 2 weeks and no strength increase… it isn’t the only benefit of Dbol or the only measure. Especially with use of an AI and low carbs which would both go a very long way to reducing cell volumisation and thus strength (most of the strength increases from Dbol comes from an immediate increase in a muscle’s diameter, which is directly related to power).

You mentioned the taste of the Dbol - do you have anything at all that you can correlate this taste experience with, or is that just pure speculation?

Brook is on the money as usual. There are many different cycles and combinations, but if you follow his advice you can’t go wrong. Dbol post workout is good because it helps with recovery and growth. And we all know muscles grow during sleep. As for the taste of Dbol, I suppose that comment was based on most lifters
assuming fake tabs are made with sugar. This is not always the case. I have heard of methyltest substituted
for methandrostenolone which would account for the overheated effect and overall malaise.

Personally I get more lethargy from dbol than from anadrol, but I know this is probably not common.

At the moment I am on test E, tren E and drol.

It’s massively hot here as well, and it makes working out a bit harder, but I find that eating a LOT of carbs all day (low-carb eating makes me want to sleep all day!) and watching a ronnie coleman-video while chugging a few red bulls just prior to training helps a bit! Ain’t nothin but a peanut!

Seriously, I was always told that with dbol and anadrol you should feel the effects almost immediately. Well, I never did, takes about two weeks for me to feel it, and only in week three does it really kick in hard. And I’ve been on a few runs of drol-only etc so I know how anadrol alone affects me.

[quote] Brook wrote:
FWIW i cannot use even 10mg of Dbol ‘pre-training’ as it makes me more lethargic and (while physically strong,) weak in strength of mind leading to lowered effort and lowered volume.

I generally try to dose all my Dbol PWO, so it is virtually gone when i return to the gym. Not the best way to use, but still very effective over not using it.

As for 2 weeks and no strength increase… it isn’t the only benefit of Dbol or the only measure. Especially with use of an AI and low carbs which would both go a very long way to reducing cell volumisation and thus strength (most of the strength increases from Dbol comes from an immediate increase in a muscle’s diameter, which is directly related to power).

You mentioned the taste of the Dbol - do you have anything at all that you can correlate this taste experience with, or is that just pure speculation?[/quote]

Yes, I noted it when you mentioned elsewhere that you were dosing dbol after workouts because of the lethargy. I agree with the logic of your two points (low carbs diet and AI reducing cell volumization), but I was eating the same way on my first cycle when the weight and strength flew on.

Granted I started from a less trained state and I was not dosing Adex high enough as I experienced a sensitive nipple flareup. That may have made all the difference because I did bloat quite a lot until I got E2 under control.

I have been told by a local dealer that when dbol is fakes it usually tastes sweet like sugar pills. It is supposed to taste bitter.

Thanks…

[quote]winkroar3 wrote:
Brook is on the money as usual. There are many different cycles and combinations, but if you follow his advice you can’t go wrong. Dbol post workout is good because it helps with recovery and growth. And we all know muscles grow during sleep. As for the taste of Dbol, I suppose that comment was based on most lifters
assuming fake tabs are made with sugar. This is not always the case. I have heard of methyltest substituted
for methandrostenolone which would account for the overheated effect and overall malaise.[/quote]

True about the sweet vs bitter taste. I guess it doesn’t prove anything. I have an online friend who said the Thai pinks may have been DHT?? Is that the same as what you said - methyltest?? Does methyltest cause overheating and malaise?

[quote]balisong wrote:
Personally I get more lethargy from dbol than from anadrol, but I know this is probably not common.

At the moment I am on test E, tren E and drol.

It’s massively hot here as well, and it makes working out a bit harder, but I find that eating a LOT of carbs all day (low-carb eating makes me want to sleep all day!) and watching a ronnie coleman-video while chugging a few red bulls just prior to training helps a bit! Ain’t nothin but a peanut!

Seriously, I was always told that with dbol and anadrol you should feel the effects almost immediately. Well, I never did, takes about two weeks for me to feel it, and only in week three does it really kick in hard. And I’ve been on a few runs of drol-only etc so I know how anadrol alone affects me.
[/quote]

Interesting. I always appreciate your input. Three weeks to fully employ? Maybe I gave up too soon.

I’ve never read or heard of pure DHT being used as a oral steroid fake or otherwise, unless it’s some type of hormone replacement. As for methyltest it has that effect on me. Very short acting and liver toxic. It also just kind of slows you down. Like alot of prohormones seem to do.

I know orals work different for everyone so there are many individuals who wouldn’t experience or have the side effects bother them. I know I’m sensitive so I simply try to stay in the A/C and complain if the gym gets too hot. As for what’s up with your Dbol it could be the genuine article.

Maybe you are not absorbing 100% like you should. I know I’ve taken some orals and they “show up” the next day. That may lend some credence to the advice to give any cycle 2-3 weeks to kick in and 2-3 weeks to wind down.