Affirmative Action

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
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On what Professor X wrote:

Wow, you sure know how to take my words and twist them up into some sort or racial statement I never made.

Since you didn’t understand my statement let me rephrase it.

If a person could overcome such difficulty back then, what does a person today have to complain about? Nowhere did I say that everyone could have become a lawyer back then. What I am saying is that they can now if they so choose.

I am also saying that some people need to quit whining and get on with life. Again you are looking at income as something people give you, not something you go and get.

I use to work with two people. One use to blame everything one him being black. Every single little problem he had was because he was black. He completely ignored the fact that he was a manager over a lot of people, including me. But the other person who worked with me called him on it. This person was from South Africa. (Actually Sudan.) Now this guy was the hardest working person I ever knew, and a great guy to boot. He had no excuses.

Now you pointed out that it is proven that blacks make less then whites do, but you forgot this part of the statistic. Blacks make less unless they are Haitian, then they make more. Can you explain this? (Actually I can.)

A wise man once said, “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”

My question is what does affirmative action judge you based on? To agree with affirmative action is to say that statement is wrong.

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[quote]The Mage wrote:

A wise man once said, “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”

My question is what does affirmative action judge you based on? To agree with affirmative action is to say that statement is wrong.[/quote]

Wrong, to agree with affirmative action is to understand that there are steps that needed to be taken to get that. It was an understanding that to knock out INBRED racism that is passed down through generations and infected our businesses, schools and social lives daily, a temporary drastic measure needed to be taken in order to even the playing field. You want to ignore the fact that racism was keeping many black kids out of college (and thusly affecting the society)…and I am talking about the capable ones. The ones who busted their asses learning and working hard with half or less than that of their lighter skinned counterparts. You want to act as if it is undeserved. Again, it was needed, and I am amazed that anyone could say that they think otherwise. It only shows closed mindedness to what an entire group of people was facing just as shortly as 20-30 years ago. Like I have said before, the only valid question is whether it is needed in the same way now.

By the way, nothing pisses me off more than someone quoting Martin Luther King while excusing the racism that promoted Affirmative Action in the first place. By the way, I have worked three jobs at one time before in college. I have taken as many as 19 hours for a few semesters and still ended up on the Dean’s List. I am also not Haitian. You want to ignore what people can do when offered a chance. You want to ignore that chance. To each his own. I understand the opportunities I was given because of the actions of my parents removing me from a situation. You want to pretend as if simply working hard would have led to where we are today as an entire group. You don’t know what was faced back then. You clearly don’t have a clue. Sadly, I don’t think you ever will on this issue.

I am proud of the fact that when I look at my patient’s charts now in the military, race is not mentioned. You can’t tell from that chart whether the patient is asian, black or white aside from assumptions based on the name. My grandfather was military along with my dad. The game was played MUCH differently when they were active duty. The majority of blacks who were not in combat usually worked menial jobs like “cook”. Both my grandfather and his brother had that job. They both worked very hard and were extremely intelligent.

The difference is, I know what we faced and acknowledge it. It is how we got to this point. I also know that had some drastic measures not been taken to wake some people up in this country, that we would probably still be about 10-15 years or more behind where we are today as far as moving towards unity.

I remember growing up in the early 80’s and thinking seeing a black person on a commercial or in a tv show was something special. Those same shows that were the first to promote us are now classics (Good Times, The Jeffersons). It took a long time just to get to that and an even longer time for me to be able to work near the same and get the same job instead of having to outdo every white applicant just to be noticed. Do you even understand the difference? I doubt you would be quoting MLK if that situation were still the same. You would simply accept it.

Is it needed today in the same way is the question. Attempting to ignore what was going on so you can pretend as if white kids are now victims confuses me. My guess is, you can still walk past quite a few cars without anyone suddenly locking the door. At least much more often than I can. Remember…I’m “shady”.

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Prof X

As far as the “your the doctor” comments you’ve gotten, I want to point out that it only takes a small percentage of responses like that to stick with you. Just wondering what percentage of patients show suprise, shock, horror when they realize your the doctor? Thirty years ago it would have surely been 99% considering race and size.

Also, have you to your knowledge had patients decide to change doctors, get a second opinion, etc. because of your race?

90% of doctors are white. If a family is looking at a group of people in scrubs and talking to each other they probably say thing like “I bet that one’s the doctor.” If they play the percentages, they probably pick the white male first.

Also, its been presented on TV shows that way. We’ve seen white doctors big and small, female doctors etc. How many 260 pound bald black doctors have been presented on TV shows? How many actors could fill those rolls.

But
As for locking the car door, thats just stupid. When I go back to the old neighborhood, I lock the car door. I do it all the time. Someones not going to steal your radio when your around and no one’s going to hijack your car who’s pushing a grocery cart in a parking lot. I think that what a person is doing here (and its not much better) is, they see a big black person. They “wake up”. They remember “hey, it’s generally a good idea to keep the car doors locked.” Unfortunately, seeing a big black person still wakes us up sometimes.

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[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Prof X

As far as the “your the doctor” comments you’ve gotten, I want to point out that it only takes a small percentage of responses like that to stick with you. Just wondering what percentage of patients show suprise, shock, horror when they realize your the doctor? Thirty years ago it would have surely been 99% considering race and size.

Also, have you to your knowledge had patients decide to change doctors, get a second opinion, etc. because of your race?
[/quote]

Actually, once they get past the “shock” that their doctor lifts weights, can speak in complete sentences while also maintaining a skin tone that makes Wesley Snipes look like he needs a tan, most choose to only work with me again. I have only had two patients in about 2 years who have acted as if race was an issue. One was an asian kid who basically tried to question what I was doing working on him until he realized that I was in the military and what my rank was (we have some doctors who work as “contracted” professionals meaning they are not military). Other than that, one thing they mesh with is the fact that I am the only one on staff who is close to their age. Not to mention that many of these kids are coming from low income families and grew up in a current culture that is much more “meshed” than it was just ten years ago. The average white kid today knows who Ja-rule or Jay-Z is and probably buys the music more than I do. I get along with the majority of my patients and most will go to the front desk and request to only work with me from that point on.

I think that “shock” has more to do with them never seeing a young black guy in that profession before. I’m not even 30 years old which also adds to it. I understand that it isn’t just race. I hope I made that clear.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
hoosierdaddy wrote:

this might seem trivial, but im willing to bet its more of your size then your race.

It’s not trivial. I understand that. I also know that there is another guy on staff, an assistant, who also lifts weights avidly (probably weighs about 230-235lbs while I was hitting 260lbs in that pic in my avatar) and most patients don’t respond to him the same when he walks in the room. Mind you, aside from a name tag, we are all dressed in scrubs so they don’t know who the doctor is until I introduce myself. It isn’t just the size, but I know that plays a part in it. Do you get the complimentary “doorlock” when you walk past someone in their car? That just happened to me (again) as I was leaving the store tonight. I just love that.
[/quote]

considering i wear a beanie and baggy IU football sweatpants, actually, yeah Ive gotten a few door locks walking past a few BMWs in my health clubs parking lot (again this is back home tho)

just do what I do, take the satisfaction in delibretely walking to your obviously nicer car, rev the engine, and then drive by, smile and wave… you can just see the utter stupidity dripping from their face

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[quote]doogie wrote:
Do you never lock your door when someone you consider shady is walking by? I’m not saying that hearing that click doesn’t suck for you, but don’t you ever do that? [/quote]

Geez, I lock my door when the car is stopped and there’s ANYONE outside of it. It just isn’t worth the risk. I actually had a homeless guy try to open the door once in DC.

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Prof. X

Now how exactly am I excusing racism? You keep trying to make me look like a racist, when I am opposed to racism. You are unfortunately blinded to the fact that affirmative action is nothing but racism. What is actually pissing you off is the fact that to accept affirmative action is to accept racism, but cannot admit that to yourself.

Either Kings statement was right or it was wrong. Affirmative action judges you based on your race, and to accept it is to say King was wrong. You cannot have it both ways. And again this is not justifying racism, just quoting King, and asking if he was right or wrong.

I am not saying there is no racism, nor was I saying that there was no racism in the past. But I am saying that affirmative action is a form of racism, a form of favoritism, and that is never right. Maybe it helped in the past, but now it is holding people back, and it helps fuel racism.

Again instead of leveling the playing field as you say, it actually weakens people. How many people know of an athlete who was so popular in their school that they got a free pass? They didn?t actually have to work in school other then the football field. Look up those people today. Some were smart enough not to fall for the crap, but some lived it up not realizing it made them weak.

Now if you are binging up your history. I can tell you are smart from your posts. Did you really need affirmative action to get into college? I am sure you would have qualified without it. Being on the dean?s list proves it.

Right now if you take away affirmative action, it does not take away that chance. But it takes away the imbalance created. If there are limited positions in a college, then that college should take students from the most qualified to the least, not based on race, and the same for a job. The problem is when a less qualified person gets a job over a more qualified person.

This was not right when it was happening to the black community, why is it suddenly ok when it happens to the white community? What I am saying is that race should not ever be part of the equation. To make it part of the equation is to say that one is superior to the other. I don?t know why you cannot see this.

I also grew up watching the Jeffersons. I can barely remember Good Times, and we had old Bill Cosby comedy 8-track tapes that I always listened too. (I used to have some of his routines memorized.) You are right that America has come a long way. Affirmative action is no longer beneficial, and I believe it actually is the one thing that is holding America back from taking that next step.

No I don?t think that affirmative action really keeps any white kids down. I also believe that regardless the best will always rise to the top. But what I see is this little roadblock having a negative effect on society. A giant billboard that says “Yes, you are different.” And that is what we must move beyond.

Oh and while you are not Haitian, are you making more then the average white guy? I assume so. (Get out of the military, you can make a hell of a lot more in private practice, but I definitely respect your service.) You used a general statistic, but when I use one that is suddenly wrong, and you want to get specific. But it is true that Haitians earn more “on average” then the ?average? white person in America. And it isn?t because prospective employers suddenly want to hire a person when they hear ?Hey Mon.?

And interestingly there is an inverse relationship between how long a group of people has lived in America, and the financial success they have. If you read the millionaire next door, it talks about how the most recent immigrants have the most success, and as they live in America, and get indoctrinated into our culture, get fat and lazy, and start falling for the entitlement mentality, their success begins to fall. So in America, generally the smaller the minority, the more likely you are to succeed.

It is actually the whites, and blacks that have lived in this country the longest that are the least successful. I think it was a Readers Digest article that mentioned that if you were the child of an immigrant, you had the biggest chance of becoming a millionaire.

Oh one more thing, you should not get pissed off just because I have a different opinion then yours, and not believing in affirmative action does not automatically mean I am a bigot. This is a scare tactic of the left that you apparently have grabbed on to. By implying that my disagreement with you is some form of racism, you are in effect labeling me a bigot, and that is meant to “get me in line” so to speak. It is not a tactic I fall for. You have mentioned you dislike labels, (such as liberal) but are quick to attach labels yourself.

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[quote]The Mage wrote:
It is actually the whites, and blacks that have lived in this country the longest that are the least successful. I think it was a Readers Digest article that mentioned that if you were the child of an immigrant, you had the biggest chance of becoming a millionaire.
[/quote]

Lest we forget that Affirmative Action is not only a black issue. AA is also about women, latins, american indians, and asians.

Some more ammunition for those who believe and those that don’t or refuse to believe. Either way, it keeps the debate alive. Better to debate openly than resent and hate quietly.

"In 2002, the median family income of American Indians and others who identified themselves as Hispanic was $33,103, which is only about 78 percent of the $42,409 median for all families. (U.S. Census Bureau, 2002)

The average U.S. salary for professional positions is $69,447. American Indians in these positions earn less than average with $57,427. (The Fact Book, U.S. Office of Professional Management, 2002)

The number of American Indians enrolled in higher education has increased in small increments over the past 20 years, but still remains low at less than one percent of all higher education students in 2000-2001. (Twentieth Annual Status Report on Minorities in Higher Education, American Council on Education, 2003)

Between 1981-2001, the total number of degrees conferred on American Indians has risen substantially, by 151.9 percent. During this period, affirmative action was a key tool used to increase American Indian enrollment. (Twentieth Annual Status Report on Minorities in Higher Education, American Council on Education, 2003)

Affirmative action efforts such as recruiting and outreach have set the stage for increases in the enrollment levels of American Indians at institutions of higher education. Between 1980-2001, American Indian enrollment increased by 80 percent. (Twentieth Annual Status Report on Minorities in Higher Education, American Council on Education, 2003)

Overall, there has been little growth for professional degrees and decline for doctoral degrees among minorities. In 2000-2001, there was a 3 percent decline in doctorates awarded to minorities from 1999-2000. Also, in 2000-2001 American Indians experienced an 11.8 percent decline in doctorates received from the previous year, representing the lowest number of doctorates earned among all racial and ethnic minority groups. (Twentieth Annual Status Report on Minorities in Higher Education, American Council on Education, 2003)

There was also a 3.7 percent decline in professional degrees earned by American Indians from 1999-2000 and 2000-2001. (Twentieth Annual Status Report on Minorities in Higher Education, American Council on Education, 2003) "

"Q. Why do some people oppose affirmative action programs?

A. Misperceptions drive much of the opposition to affirmative action. Large numbers of white Americans incorrectly believe that African-Americans are as well off as whites in terms of their jobs, incomes, schooling, and health care, according to a 2001 national survey by The Washington Post, Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, and Harvard University. Many Americans also believe that women have reached equality in the workplace.

In fact, government statistics show that blacks have narrowed these gaps, but continue to lag significantly behind whites in employment, income, education, and access to health care. Additionally, even though women-owned firms represent an estimated 28 percent of all businesses in the United States, these firms have obtained a mere 2.9 percent of the $235.4 billion in federal government contracts awarded in 2002. "

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I would refer to Ayn Rand’s essay’s on the Racism issue. I believe her coments were “why should today’s man still be paying for what his ancestors may, or may not, have done?”. and she wrote this stuff in 1960’s. I don’t know of any war that has lasted longer than the “race war” that affects the globe. Then again isn’t every war, past and present, about race?

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[quote]Papa wrote:
I would refer to Ayn Rand’s essay’s on the Racism issue. I believe her coments were “why should today’s man still be paying for what his ancestors may, or may not, have done?”. and she wrote this stuff in 1960’s. I don’t know of any war that has lasted longer than the “race war” that affects the globe. Then again isn’t every war, past and present, about race?[/quote]

I personally don’t give a damn about Ayn Rand or any of her “Mentzerian” followers. Please choose a better person to quote next time. As if this even needs to be stated…yet again for the slow ones…this isn’t about slavery. This is about the racism that kept this VERY LAST generation…wait, let me repeat that for ones that read really really slow…this is about the racism faced by the LAST GENERATION of minorities in this country. That wasn’t 150 years ago and Ayn Rand’s corpse can kiss my black ass for writing this in the 60’s when racism was still leading to blacks getting hit with fire hoses in the streets on camera.

If you can’t comprehend that racism was doing this, then prove that it didn’t. I gave you the studies showing what was going on. I have given you personal experience. If you want to still believe that racism in this country in the last generation and this one is made up, make believe, a figment of our collective imaginations, or some ploy to take away white scholarships, prove it. It would seem to me the burden is now on you to do so. But wait, you have more Ayn Rand quotes, right?

There is one thing I must thank you for, however. It seems to be a syndrome that some in this country believe that minorities are making up racism…and I thank you for exposing that. Maybe it is some sort of mental affliction that forces you to only see the world through the eyes of someone who has not had to deal with this. Honestly, the simple fact that some of you don’t see some of the things you have typed as biased confuses me. Then again, it is nothing new.

Things have gotten better and are progressing. The youth culture in this country is probably more mixed than it has ever been. So, maybe all we have to do is let the ones with “old school” mentalities die off. Micro-evolution at its finest.

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Then there’s the other point of view…

By: Edwin A. Locke, Ph.D.

If diversity is the cure for racism, why, instead of promoting racial harmony, has it brought racial division and conflict?

It is now taken as a virtual axiom that the way to cure racism is through the promulgation of racial and ethnic diversity within corporations, universities, government agencies and other institutions. The diversity movement has many facets: diversity awareness, diversity training, diversity hiring and admissions, diversity promotions, and diversity accommodations (e.g., black student organizations and facilities at universities). The common feature in all these facets is: racial preference.

If diversity is the cure, however, why, instead of promoting racial harmony, has it brought racial division and conflict? The answer is not hard to discover. The unshakable fact is that you cannot cure racism with racism. To accept the diversity premise means to think in racial terms rather than in terms of individual character or merit. Taking jobs away from one group in order to compensate a second group to correct injustices caused by a third group who mistreated a fourth group at an earlier point in history (e.g., 1860) is absurd on the face of it and does not promote justice; rather, it does the opposite. Singling out one group for special favors (e.g., through affirmative action) breeds justified resentment and fuels the prejudices of real racists. People are individuals; they are not interchangeable ciphers in an amorphous collective.

Consider a more concrete, though fictional, example. Suppose that since its creation in 1936, the XYZ Corporation refused to hire redheaded men due to a quirky bias on the part of its founder. The founder now dies and an enlightened Board of Directors decides that something “positive” needs to be done to compensate for past injustices and announces that, henceforth, redheads will be hired on a preferential basis. Observe that: (1) this does not help the real victims–the previously excluded redheads; (2) the newly favored redheads have not been victims of discrimination in hiring, yet unfairly benefit from it; and (3) the non-redheads who are now excluded from jobs due to the redhead preference did not cause the previous discrimination and are now unfairly made victims of it. The proper solution, of course, is simply to stop discriminating based on irrelevant factors. Although redheaded bias is not a social problem, the principle does not change when you replace hair color with skin color.

The traditional and essentially correct solution to the problem of racism has always been color-blindness. But this well-intentioned principle comes at the issue negatively. The correct principle is individuality awareness. In the job sphere there are only three essential things an employer needs to know about an individual applicant: (l) Does the person have the relevant ability and knowledge (or the capacity to learn readily)? (2) Is the person willing to exert the needed effort? and (3) Does the person have good character, e.g., honesty, integrity?

It will be argued that the above view is too “idealistic” in that people often make judgments of other people based on non-essential attributes such as skin color, gender, religion, nationality, etc. This, of course, does happen. But the solution is not to abandon the ideal but to implement it consistently. Thus, organizational training should focus not on diversity-worship but on how to objectively assess or measure ability, motivation and character in other people.

The proper alternative to diversity, that is, to focusing on the collective, is to focus on the individual and to treat each individual according to his or her own merits. Americans have always abhorred the concept of royalty, that is, granting status and privilege based on one’s hereditary caste, because it contradicts the principle that what counts are the self-made characteristics possessed by each individual. Americans should abhor racism, in any form, for the same reason.

With a few heroic exceptions, such as Nucor and Cypress Semiconductor, which have defied quota pressures, business leaders (following the intellectuals) have been terror-stricken at the thought that there is any alternative to diversity. Their belief–that you can cure racism with racial quotas–is a hopeless quest with nothing but increased conflict and injustice as the end. It is time that business leaders find the courage to assert and defend the only true antidote to the problem of racism: individualism.

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Ok everybody,

I want to add a few things.

  1. I FIRMLY believe that if I had been born black, and from a family that NEVER in its past experienced wealth, and living in the poor mixed race neighborhood that I did, I would have probably gotten a full ride college “race based” scholarship IF I had gotten that far BUT I believe that because of my social surroundings I would not have had the courage to even try, BUT if someone told me: "Hey you, black kid! Bet you can’t make something of your life! It’s hard to get into college and your probably not smart enough! I probably would have gone. I know it sounds weak, and I’ve changed a lot, but I feel its true. AA would get me in, but does not solve the psycho-social issues.

  2. I DID know poor smart black, white and hispanic kids who were smart enough to get into college and about equally qualified, and of them, I knew black and hispanic kids who managed to get scholarships both who failed and succeeded in college (of the failures many who didn’t give a crap whether they made it or not, and white kids at the same level who never got the chance. but who really wanted to go. Not really an AA issue but there are MORE opportunities for pretty well qualified minority kids to get scholarships than poor white kids.

  3. The same NEA representative who told me how important AA was, also told me how eugenics was the way for America to move forward! He regularly talked about how abortion would be used to weed out the weak!

Just thoughts here

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[quote]Croooz wrote:
The traditional and essentially correct solution to the problem of racism has always been color-blindness. But this well-intentioned principle comes at the issue negatively. The correct principle is individuality awareness. In the job sphere there are only three essential things an employer needs to know about an individual applicant: (l) Does the person have the relevant ability and knowledge (or the capacity to learn readily)? (2) Is the person willing to exert the needed effort? and (3) Does the person have good character, e.g., honesty, integrity? [/quote]

I disagree with this. Any professional who actually works closely with other people and has to deal with different pyschological states of different individuals knows that you can’t attempt to look at the world as if there is no difference. In fact, let’s take color out of this and talk more about CULTURE. I know for a fact that when I do enter my own private practice, that along with working someone who is “qualified on paper”, I want my assistant to be able to relate to me…and the patients. That involves a cultural component which seems to be left out of anything we have talked about so far. I could care less if she is white/black/asian or none of the above. If we relate and I don’t feel that if I say “what’s up” that she suddenly can’t understand me because she has no concept of the most simple slang terms, I will hire her. If she can’t relte to our black patients because her own culture has distanced her away from the differences of others, I will not hire her…even if she has the best looking resume. Probably the bigest key to unity is TOLERANCE of different cultures, not some lame attempt at color blindness.

For us to continue, possibly the “quota” aspect of AA needs to be removed…but that isn’t all there is to Affirmative Action which one of the other posters confirmed.

Racism was a very large issue in America and often still is. Now, the focus should be on tolerance of cultural differences. I shouldn’t have to lose who I am simply because I am working in an environment with cultures different from mine. Unfortunately, that is exactly what many of us have been called upon to do.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

by the LAST GENERATION of minorities in this country. …
… I have given you personal experience. If you want to still believe that racism in this country in the last generation and this one is made up, make believe, a figment of our collective imaginations, or some ploy to take away white scholarships, prove it. …
There is one thing I must thank you for, however. It seems to be a syndrome that some in this country believe that minorities are making up racism…and I thank you for exposing that. … the world through the eyes of someone who has not had to deal with this. Honestly, the simple fact that some of you don’t see some of the things you have typed as biased confuses me. Then again, it is nothing new.

Things have gotten better and are progressing. The youth culture in this country is probably more mixed than it has ever been. So, maybe all we have to do is let the ones with “old school” mentalities die off. Micro-evolution at its finest.[/quote]

Listen
I do agree with what you are saying here, but I am not “restricting” my beliefs to a slavery issue. However, if Micro-evolution is all that is needed, and slavery has nothing to do with the lives that you and I lead, why would you assume that is what I was refering to when quoting Ayn? Though her statements may have been direct reference to such things, though my intention was not the same. I know that this is pop-culture of me, but I refer to the film “American History X”. The character of the father prepetuated the hate within the family. This hate came from the perception that other races were “less” than that of the family. In my mind, it doesn’t matter that the family in the movie was white. They could have been of any creed or color, and the “concept” could have remained the same. When we have a generation of “influencers” that have a better perspective on co-existance in this world, then we can move on. And yes, I am bias to my perspective, as you are to yours. That really is the beauty of it all…

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AA in 2005 is anachronistic.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
Any professional who actually works closely with other people and has to deal with different pyschological states of different individuals knows that you can’t attempt to look at the world as if there is no difference. In fact, let’s take color out of this and talk more about CULTURE. I know for a fact that when I do enter my own private practice, that along with working someone who is “qualified on paper”, I want my assistant to be able to relate to me…and the patients. That involves a cultural component which seems to be left out of anything we have talked about so far. I could care less if she is white/black/asian or none of the above. If we relate and I don’t feel that if I say “what’s up” that she suddenly can’t understand me because she has no concept of the most simple slang terms, I will hire her. If she can’t relte to our black patients because her own culture has distanced her away from the differences of others, I will not hire her…even if she has the best looking resume. Probably the bigest key to unity is TOLERANCE of different cultures, not some lame attempt at color blindness.

For us to continue, possibly the “quota” aspect of AA needs to be removed…but that isn’t all there is to Affirmative Action which one of the other posters confirmed.

Racism was a very large issue in America and often still is. Now, the focus should be on tolerance of cultural differences. I shouldn’t have to lose who I am simply because I am working in an environment with cultures different from mine. Unfortunately, that is exactly what many of us have been called upon to do.[/quote]

You are beginning to form a circular argument. Perhaps it would clear up things if you defined ‘race’.

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Racism and prejudice does exist, and unfortunately it always will. But affirmative action is not the answer, or at least not any more. We need to quit harping about what happened in the past, and work toward the future. Most of my statements have been about the present and the future, but it keeps getting twisted into somehow justifying the past.

I know about racism because I have seen it, and experienced it against myself. (Albeit in a minor way.)

There is a complaint that cab drivers will preferentially pick up a white passenger over a black passenger in most cities. That can point to racism, until you point out that the black cab drivers also will preferentially pick up the white passenger.

Now why is this? Bigotry against blacks by blacks? Interestingly nobody has thought about tips. Many white people have the idea if tips ingrained into their beliefs. It is surprising all the places where people get tips, and some people just don?t know about it, and so the thought never enters their mind. But for the person working, that extra $20 a day matters. That does not justify it, but it explains it.

So what happens if blacks suddenly gets the idea of giving big tips to cab drivers as often as possible? Suddenly they will pick up the black person preferentially over the white person.

Back on subject, you cannot fight racism with racism. And treating people differently based on their race is racism. No ifs and or buts about it.

This does not level the playing field, not in the slightest. If it did, all things would be equal. The fact that blacks have a higher unemployment is proof of this. If it worked then there would be no difference. What that means is that it must be something else.

What that something else is actually is a result of affirmative action, and the so called black leaders who actually benefit by keeping the status quo and inflaming racism instead of quelling it because they believe it keeps them making money.

If I can bring up Bill Cosby, people are upset with him mostly because he is telling the truth. And that truth is so hard to hear that many just get upset without actually listening. It is hard to accept your beliefs are wrong, but the people that don’t listen are the ones doomed by their beliefs. They don?t even realize Cosby only says those things because he is trying to help.

This is a man who not only lived through those times many years ago, but also was a major part of that evolutionary change in this country. Some of the people he had on his show in the 80’s were a part of those civil rights movements. They actually marched in those demonstrations they talked about on the show. Now why are we suddenly supposed to dismiss this man? Possibly even dislike him? Again you can disagree with a person without hating them. If nothing else, his recent comments have opened a very needed dialogue.

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By the way, I was born in 1971 and I just realized I don’t even know if Affirmative Action CAME from an act of legislation, a court ruling or the establishment of a new cabinet department. There had to be some legislation though.

I do know that the term Affirmative Action was specifically designed to indicate that this was a RARE instance of law in which Proactive (Affirmative) Legislation had to be taken as opposed to the general conservative philosophy of law at the time that it should consist of Negative statements (There shall be No Discrimination). I’m not saying active law is bad, just that the framers of “Affirmative Action” wanted to make it clear that this was a rare case in which active legislation was needed BECAUSE there was logistically impossible to deal with an issue this large and pervasive (at the time) with case by case “preventative” action.

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Improvements in race relations have done as much to improve life for whites as blacks. In Denver, which for whatever reason has little racism, you can walk almost anywhere, right through the poorest neighborhoods. There’s one small area thats populated mostly by blacks who moved from BACK EAST which you need to watch.

In KC, Saint Louis, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburg its worse. You walk through a black part of town fast, or drive through. You may go eat at a Rib Joint, but you probably pick it up and take it home: Much easier to relax.

In Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC that’s all I’ve seen, there is CONSTANT TENSION. I could feel it. You watch your back, you don’t go down a lot of streets.

Problem in Denver is that the liberals in the state government want to keep race an issue as long as they can. They want to keep blacks in some of the small project neighborhoods because it locks up a group of “potential” voters. They want to argue that hispanic kids should be able to go through highschool completely in spanish because they know they have the spanish speaking vote locked up.

I consider myself to be independent. I think that both parties are actively doing things to keep this a problem as long as possible. Yea we have the little disagreements over “Columbus day”, and native americans wanting to have a protest to the small Italian parade, but when I talk to Italian kids who are upset about the Native American thing, they speak with no hatred or disrespect for the Native Americans, only with thier own pride-and vice versa.

You live in the mid-west, your probably a generation away. In Philly youz guyz will prolly have a race war before you get it right.

80

I’ve had a change of opinion.

I don’t believe that a quota based AA plan is the way to go. In a perfect world I believe that’s what should be done is take race, sex, names…anything which could identify a person off of applications for schools and jobs. Pick the best candidate, bring them in for interviews and then decide. This is pollyannish because American’s as a whole behave as though they “need” this other information before calling in an applicant. I’ve scheduled the interviews and many qualified applicants were not called in because they failed to include certain descriptors in their application. “Diversity training” is a farce and I believe it divides more than it unites. I’m sure the idea is to provide some form of cultural awareness but what happens is it shows how different we are which for many further divides.

What is the alternative? What else is there? Prof X is dead on when he says that what we’re talking about now isn’t slavery but the segregation which happened recently.

I agree with Prof X about cultural awareness with color blindness. I’m not saying that one should lose their identity with their race simply to attend a certain college or have a certain job. I’m saying that a person’s thoughts, ideas or opinions should not be labeled because of their race or color. “He/she thought this is a better way to do it…because that’s how their people do it”??? Sounds ridiculous but what we’re doing now with all this diversity is in essence saying that someone’s race matters. It only matters that the people be aware of how to “get along”.

In the end we have an imperfect system. Has AA helped? Yes! Without question. Is it the best thing to have now? Not if dependent on quotas or a certain percentage of the population. Racism is wrong in any facet but personal racism isn’t the problem. The problem is left to their own devices the majority of people would prefer to hire, work with/for someone of similar backgrounds. Without question the quickest way for the less educated to find this similarity is thru race.

Work hard, study hard, be productive and you will succeed is the hope. Race, color does matter because we make it matter. Whites made it matter and now everyone else is continuing to make it matter. All in all what we need is a restructing of ALL American races into a big color blind one. Not realistic but then neither was ending slavery, segregation or the Cold War.