Affirmative Action

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
41

[quote]The Mage wrote:
I don’t care about the excuses of the past. What happened to my Mommy or Daddy. (Sorry Prof. X) There was a black man working as a lawyer, making about $100,000 a year in the 1800’s, while slavery was still legal. (That was in that times money too. Damn I wish I could remember his name.) Now if a person can overcome that, why all the excuses today?[/quote]

I am honestly sitting here wondering how you are able to look back in history at what racism and slavery was at the time, find one guy that you say is black (mind you, his actual skin tone would have much to do with his success as well at that time considering it wasn’t just “black” that was discriminated against but also varied on the shade) and use that to say that all blacks should have, what, been able to become lawyers in that time period? That is what you are saying, right? Blacks have overcome a significant amount in this country. Your statement implies that slavery occurred simply because we didn’t “try” hard enough to prevent it. That amazes me that you think that way or even had the “logic” to include something like that in your post. Obviously, the issues that many blacks have had to face are all figments of imagination. Clearly, everyone who was PROVEN to be getting paid less than their white counterparts in the same jobs(or not get the job at all) simply didn’t try hard enough.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

I got an idea - maybe I should tutor inner city Blacks, and then I would have a decent view of what kind of priorities and influences affect their lives, especially as it come down on their choice to get educated or not.

How about that? I already do. I also write letters of recommendation for minorities for their college applications…

Do tell, Pro X, and spare me your mediocre lecturing about not knowing what Black youths feel and don’t feel. I’ve got sweat equity invested in this project, so your trite racialism doesn’t buy you much here.
[/quote]

Sweat equity? First, sincerely, if what you write is true, I have nothing but respect for anyone who honestly gives back to the community. One of the things that probably helped me get into school after graduating college was the program I started that helped kids in the surrounding community finish their homework while tutoring them before their parents came to pick them up in the evenings. The average age was around 8-12 years of age so we were literally catching them at the beginning. I don’t take that away from anyone…however, you wrote this earlier:

[quote]
Nope. You miss the point. My point was that Black culture doesn’t reward education, so a young Black has little incentive from his community to invest in his future, despite the fact that is his best way to improve his lot. A Black kid’s neighborhood is more likely to celebrate him for driving a flamboyant car than for securing a spot at the state university in the engineering college. [/quote]

I disagree with this. At its base, it misses the concept of success. Success is not what is being laughed at. We are dealing with what is seen when someone only sees what is directly in front of them. I didn’t grow up rich, but I was far from being poor like some of the kids I grew up around. It was still the same neighborhood, however. My parents were the only ones on the block who went to college. The judgment of success would only be based on what you see in that community or around you (remember, my parents took me out). If you only see torn down buildings, beat up cars and the like as being average, you would naturally associate the guy who rides through in a Cadillac Escalade as being “successful”. Don’t tell me that white kids don’t think along those same lines. The game is simply different. You can’t tell me that white kids are in school to be successful for the sake of “securing a spot at the state university in the engineering college”. Many of them, just like black kids, are in this for the rewards of success…whether that be the larger house, the better looking wife or girls to sleep with, and the car with the gadgets. Oh, wait, but that doesn’t make sense to you, does it?

Let me make it clearer. Have you seen the movie Boiler Room. The premise was this exact same concept. We all have the same goals. The route to reaching them is based on what is perceived around you. You want to fault the black culture for being materialistic…as if your culture isn’t? The big screen TV’s, furniture from Ikea, and flat screen computer monitors are shunned in your house? You drive a Pinto, right? Your goal in life was to “secure a spot at the state university in the engineering college”? Or was it what came from doing that?

While a poor “black/white” kid may see becoming a rap star, playing pro football/basketball, or singing as that route to that same success, someone growing up in a richer neighborhood more than likely will see education, becoming the CEO of a company, or being a doctor the route to it. The difference? The world perceived around us. That is how they “see” people reach that sucess.

My grandmother was Creole. I speak French (not as well as I could but I do, which has helped in parts of the world I have been deployed to…south america believe it or not). No one was teased more than I was for “talking funny” or “talking white”. That has only been drenched with more southern influence by growing up in Texas which at least makes me sound normal. I understand that aspect because I lived it. I didn’t tutor someone else to find it out, I understand its base because I sat on the school bus and was teased…and grew up with those same kids…and saw how they turned out.

Seth Davis, Boiler Room:
Maybe Notorious B.I.G. said it best: to make it big, “either you got a wicked jump shot or you’re slinging crack rock,”.
“No body wants to work for it anymore”.

I agree.

42

Just a couple more point/observations I’ve made in my life.

  1. My wife is a third year medical resident going into cardiology next year. Scored 86, 95 and 96 on the step exams. Good, yea, but when she came to America 6 years ago her english was at a 6th grade level, and when we met 7 years ago, she had had only a couple of English classes. We were introduced by her sister who lived here. She always knew she was going to be a doctor and this was the key. Some people NEVER visualize themselves as a potential college student. I on the other hand, was born here. I wasn’t rich but I had my college paid for. I wandered around in a drunken stupor for the first 6 years of my higher education.

  2. We have gone back to visit Romania since. They are “democratic” now. The streets are covered with trash. The army does its traditional marches up and down the streets-right by the trash. No one there wants to face the fact that they have a choice to live like that or not.

  3. Aside from the more liberal European countries, Europe is 10 times more racist than the US. Do you have minority neighborhoods, no way. There are no “obvious” minorities. A black person COULD NOT LIVE in any of those countries so they’ve come up with their own groups to deiscrimate against: Hungarians, Russians, Southern v. Northern Romanians, Lower class versus upper class, Farmers versus city folk.

  4. Look at the examples of Gypsies throughout Europe. Why do they live that way? It is easier to accept the poverty that you know than the productive life that you are unfamiliar with.

  5. My dad was at one point the only white teacher in an all black inner city KC middle school. He made a difference. He remembers the black teachers there who would get the whole student body in the auditorium to watch a movie on say ancient Egypt. Every week it was a movie on Friday, didn’t matter that it had nothing to do with the unit the kids were studying. “Hey, its Movie Day, don’t rock the boat man.”

  6. When I moved to Denver, I moved into a poor mixed minority neighborhood. 2-3 kids shot dead each year. My mom became president of the civic association, wrote 10 million dollars worth of grants for free, got the place cleaned up and I think there was 1 shooting in the last 17 years, but she wasn’t “in touch” with thehispanic culture so they kicked her out of the civic association. No big deal, she’s got more time to play with here grandkids.

Not trying to make a particular point, just kicking out some facts.

43

Yes, white and black kids both want the rewards of wealth. But the subtle cultural difference is that many blacks do not seem to either understand or give credence to the idea that wealth is separate from its rewards. I drive around Prince George’s County, MD, and I see $50,000 SUVs parked in front of houses with gutters falling down, and grass left ummowed. People that can’t “afford” school supplies for their kids walk around in $200 sneakers. Yes, almost all of us want flat screen TVs and furniture from IKEA… but hopefully we also understand that those things are not assets, they are not wealth. They may betoken wealth, but that is all. Once you mistake the signifier to be the signified, all is lost.

Not that I think, ftr, that poor-white culture is anything great. The difference is probably that poor blacks tend to be clustered in urban areas, whereas poor whites tend to be in more rural ones. Quite a few difference spring from this, but a major difference is that the “ghetto” seems to be growing. It used to be that if you got things together, got an education and a job, your goal was to “move out.” Now where do many of the upwardly mobile blacks move? Into ‘nicer’ houses in PG County… so that their kids go to the same shitty schools with the ghetto kids… many of whom don’t care to see their “friends” succeed.

44

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Yes, white and black kids both want the rewards of wealth. But the subtle cultural difference is that many blacks do not seem to either understand or give credence to the idea that wealth is separate from its rewards. [/quote]

Bullshit. No, seriously. There is definitely a cultural difference as to what “success” is but the goal for most human beings is some form of “wealth”, status, power, or glory. While I have made some of the same comments as far as why the hell someone would get a $25-30,000 SUV when the light bill hasn’t been paid, at its base, it is most likely because that person puts value on the material more than the social status by YOUR view. That same $25-30,000 SUV is probably getting him more ass than he got without it. That same expensive car is allowing kids to look and yell, “Oooh, that’s MY car…when I grow up, that’s MY car!!” That doesn’t make the doctor who ignores his kid so he can work longer hours so he can afford that $3,000 Flat Screen TV/ Home entertainment center any better. The difference? You give the doctor more credit. First, you need to give up the idea that you would be much different had you been raised in the exact same culture with the EXACT same skin color and obstacles, with the exact same parents and friends.

Yes, things have improved, but what AA did in the 90’s was needed. You can’t expect someone to “make it out” if they have no concept at all of what is “out there” or how it is much better than their current state. That means the culture needs images of success that represent people who grew up in those same conditions and moved in a different direction. More are moving towards higher education now because the way has been paved more and more by others. How do we increase the effect? By focusing on those who are “succesful”, who give back, and are not sell outs. Over time, this can have a more positive effect. However, until you truly understand the problems many people face in this country, things that are not common to the average white person, you can not judge like so many have tried to do in this thread. Growing up poor and black is not like growing up poor an asian or poor and white. The world views you differently. Therefore, you see the world differently. The only time this is usually not seen is when the child grows up around other kids that have little to no bias based on color yet represent other cultures. That isn’t going to happen in the projects.

45

Prof X,

The only problem I have with your evaluation of the need for AA is that it sounds like your saying that it accomplished some good practical things for improving the situation even if it was wrong in principal. In other words, it made minority kids think twice, “hey, I don’t have ALL the cards stacked against me,” and “hey there’s a lot more minority kids going to school these days.” I agree that is the worthwhile accomplishment of AA, and it creates a positive cycle, but what AA has done detrimentally is to entangle the ussues of 1) social efforts to inspire goals of secondary education in the minority population and 2) an individual’s right to not be discriminated against on the basis of race. We needed AA for #2 because it was just too big and immanent a problem to handle case by case at the time. If the real purpose of AA was to accomplish #1 under the guise of #2 it is sloppy/bad law/policy. When #2 can be accomplished without AA any more, it needs to go, and if were depending on it for #2 when that happens, we won’t have the same quality of other programs to address #2 that we should have.

Thanks

46

I think this is a real shame. AA doesn’t promote racism. It is racism.

If you’re poor, black and dumb. You shouldn’t be in college. Same if you’re in the saem boat and white, yellow, green or a lovely shade in between. It ruins college for anyone. The teacher does “teach down” to the dumber kids in the class.

I still can’t get over the fact that people who don’t achieve get breaks based on the color of their skin. That should be completely unimportant. The fact is Martin Luther King Jr. didn’t say “I have a dream that one day a man will be judged not on the color of his skin, but on the content of his character… unless it benefits blacks, hispanics, or Native Americans.”

Slavery is a moot point. Its gone. Sorry. If you want repartaions. You can become a slave for a while and get repartions. Also, what about the Asian people subjegated in California working on the railroad? I don’t hear them complaining. Mostly cause the vast majority don’t care.

Interesting example… But albeit not a one applicable to every person of the given races. I have a friend who’s Dad came to the US from China. He owns some China food places. Three of these places in fact. He’s looking at buying another one. His son goes to MIT and his Dad bought a 300k dollar home. The clincher is his Dad can’t speak English. I can’t talk to him, you can’t talk to him unless you’re ordering off the menu or talking Mandarin. My Dad is a real estate agent and he has to find a translator to talk to him. Kinda interesting… This doesn’t seem to hold him back. Then on the other hand I got my Harvard interview from a black gentleman who went to harvard undergrad and med. He was a MD, had hole sin his suits. Drove a scruffy car. Had a small office in the ratty end of town. Now he could give all his money to charity. But I have a feeling he just isn’t terribly sucessful. He has a silver spoon in his mouth (Two Harvard degress) while the other guy can’t even get talk to you, who’s done more with less?

Which bring me to another point. I think AA is a cover up for a impratical, useless cultural atmosphere. The “hip-hop” culture is bunk. They denigrade education, success, and decorum. Unless success is in sports, drug use, or rap. I’ve had one of my good friends referred to as an Uncle Tom becuase he “acts white”. Meaning he studies, doesn’t denigrade women, and acts like a human fucking being. Not some punk bitch with a chip on his shoulder and a sense of entitlement. On this culture issue I find it interesting that Africa is still in the relative Stone Age with regards to soceity. They’re a joke. They produce nothing except diamonds and genocide, and if it wasn’t for the former there wouldn’t be the latter. People can give every argument for why they have failed, but the fact is they have. Now Japan is a different story. As I recall before the Meiji government in Japan they were an iron age civilization. This was the mid 1800s. But the turn of the century they had beaten a great power in Russia, and in under 100 from their growth conquered half the world. Kinda impressive from swords and bows to now having the foremost Asian economy and one of the largest and more porductive on the planet. A better culute? Without a doubt.

Coming full circle. The problem isn’t that blacks or hispanics need money or perks. They need to be restructured. They need to learn you get somewhere by hard work and dedication. (Not the ones who comes from Latin America. But the ones who stay here and start absorbing the “hip-hop” thug culture) This will be the way to create equality. Unless of course you think its a great idea this guy doesn’t pay his taxes and buys lots of Nike’s. But hey fuck him.

47

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
but what AA has done detrimentally is to entangle the ussues of 1) social efforts to inspire goals of secondary education in the minority population [/quote]

I disagree with this. What it also did was allow more blacks to reach a level of success so that more programs could be formed to increase the cycle of students into secondary education. It also allowed others to reach a financial and social status that was being held away from them originally…because we all know that EVERY white kid deserves every position they got in school and no one ever got into college based on who their parents were…right?

[quote]
and 2) an individual’s right to not be discriminated against on the basis of race. [/quote]

Again, I posted the studies and the tests that proved how much racism was actually going on in the work place. If you had looked at them, you would know that it wasn’t just blacks that were included, but women and hispanics largely. The issue that caused it to be needed was the overwhelming amount of descrimination in the work place before it was instituted. You can’t look over that, only deal with the CURRENT situation and try to point out defects. In 1979, the chances of me being a black doctor in the position I am in now would be almost non-existant. The odds would have been even higher against me, and I have to tell you, it wasn’t easy as it was. I am not talking about strict “school work” either.

Then logically, the same studies that showed how needed it was need to be conducted to assure whether a certain form of it is still needed. Again, while the original plan may be outdated in the year 2005, you can’t skip over the influence it had all of the years it was put in place. Without it, I honestly believe we would be about 10-15 years behind where we are right now socially.

Let’s also not skip over the other issue of “same schooling”. Needless to say, this whole “no child left behind” bullshit has left quite a few kids behind. The moment I can walk into an inner city school and see just as many new school books as in wealthier parts of town, or at least enough to justify the metal detectors, then we will be where we need to be. I won’t even get into the physical conditions of many of these school and the lack of supplies. The educational system in this country is still not equal. It still needs to be.

48

Is it the governments place to change the culture?

I don’t see why the descendents of some ethnic classes should be required to pay for those of another for actions that ended over 150 yrs. ago.

Slavery has been around since the dawn of time. It was ended by the descendents of white Europeans in the majority of the world.

Just a thought.

49

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I disagree with this. What it also did was allow more blacks to reach a level of success so that more programs could be formed to increase the cycle of students into secondary education. It also allowed others to reach a financial and social status that was being held away from them originally…because we all know that EVERY white kid deserves every position they got in school and no one ever got into college based on who their parents were…right?
[/quote]

I would include allowing more blacks to reach a level of success to be part of the positive (practical) effects. I am saying that that wasn’t the SPECIFIC legal intent of the law. The assumption was that AA would lead to this. Level the playing field and things should naturally sort out. Leveling the playing field was the (explicit) intent of the law. Things sorting out was a hope, but not explicit intent.

[/quote]

Again, I didn’t say its time for it to go, I said IF we are at a point that individual injustices can be effectively dealt with on a case by case basis then its time to go. It should not be maintained just so a kid will look to it and say “I don’t have all the cards stacked against me” When a black kid can say that, based upon the effectiveness of a case by case dealing with injustice then it should go.

Thats what I said. It needs to be reexamined and if…

[quote]
Let’s also not skip over the other issue of “same schooling”. Needless to say, this whole “no child left behind” bullshit has left quite a few kids behind. The moment I can walk into an inner city school and see just as many new school books as in wealthier parts of town, or at least enough to justify the metal detectors, then we will be where we need to be. I won’t even get into the physical conditions of many of these school and the lack of supplies. The educational system in this country is still not equal. It still needs to be. [/quote]

As a teacher, I am not sure about this. I will have to do some more research. I do know that in Colorado, property tax, which provides the vast majority of school funding is split evenly throughout the state. Actually, poor districts get a little more. That means, I pay $2000 or whatever in property tax, someone from a poor neighborhood pays 0-$1000 depending on the situation, it all goes into a pool and split equally but with a small amount extra given to poorer districts. We also have complete open enrollment in the state. Yes, schools in richer districts get more private donations, but you have to report that and then the state cuts your state funding to match. Unless a parent just gives a teacher $100 donation as a bonus to the lab fee for a class, I don’t have any idea how rich districts get more money, but I’ll look into it. I know that there were clearly have and have-not schools in KC, and that unless you were in a millionare neighborhood, if you could afford to, you sent your kids to private schools. No child left behind is designed to sanction poor performing school districts and literally put them out of buisiness so that charter schools, private schools can come in as a competative option. I’m conservative, but very much against it. The two main problems I see with inner city school districts is that 1) kids are still being bussed for an hour each way to even out the numbers and 2) Teachers who grew up in a poor neighborhood are not willing to stay there and teach despite the fact that the pay is BETTER for teachers in poor school districts than rich. The overall quality of teachers in the poor districts is way below that in the rich districts despite the fact that the rich districts probably pay teachers a little less (3-5% overall)

50

Prof X let me add however:

  1. If my wife had been black, she wouldn’t have gotten into a residency in CO and affirmative action wouldn’t have made a damn bit of difference. Nor would she have gotten in if she had been fat. Yet she scored in the top 5-10% versus all US med school grads on the step exams. In other states, yes she would have gotten in, but not here.

  2. If I had been a poor black kid, and my wife white and from another country as she is, she PROBABLY would not have gotten in. My uncle was a famous white doctor and did write her a letter that surely carried some weight.

  3. If I had been a poor white kid, I wouldn’t have been able to afford the colleges I went to, but my parents would have made sure I was able to go somewhere.

  4. If I had been a poor black kid with no history of family members achieving higher education, I easily COULD have gotten into college and probably could have gotten it all paid for, but I probably would have stuck with the easy choice: stay in the hood, get by day to day, get smashed every day, die young. My parents love might have saved me, but probably not.

51

[quote]hedo wrote:
Is it the governments place to change the culture?

I don’t see why the descendents of some ethnic classes should be required to pay for those of another for actions that ended over 150 yrs. ago.

Slavery has been around since the dawn of time. It was ended by the descendents of white Europeans in the majority of the world.

Just a thought.[/quote]

Does that thought include realizing that the studies I posted weren’t made up and that this was not 150 years ago?

Just a question.

Fact: Recent discrimination in the work place against minorities, including women, is what prompted action originally in the form of AA…not slavery.

52

On what mertdawg wrote:

Mertdawg, I wonder how many other people would actually admit something like that. Anyway, I appreciate your response.

53

Professor X,

The studies you linked to were specifically gathered by department heads in the Clinton administation to justify continuing their programs. It wasn’t some unbiased gathering of data.

The last sentence of the memo to the department heads (appendix A) says:

Using all of the tools at your disposal, you should develop any information that is necessary to evaluate whether your programs are narrowly tailored to serve a compelling interest, as required under Adarand’s strict scrutiny standard. Any program that does not meet the constitutional standard must be reformed or eliminated.

Come on. No government official is going to say, “You know what? We don’t need this program, go ahead and cut my budget.”

54

Look peeps. We know that AA was necessary when it started. There were millions of blacks seeking education and there was no friggin way for the court system to handle it case by case. Furthermore, a lot of courts/judges were racist. AA was an example of a law written out of economy kind of like martial law. If you think it was originally unnecessary your crazy, or ignorant or malinformed or racist. That’s all there is to that.

The question is simple to me. Can blacks hope to get fairness in education and work based of the strong support of the court system when a case does arise. Two issues here. 1) Can a black person get a fair day in court and have their rights enforced and 2) Is it unreasonable to expect someone to need to take their case to court, in other words, is simpy knowing that you might have to go to the courts as your only chance for justice a deterrent to you trying. Again, I would propose that what we need is 1) EXTREMELY strong sanctions against schools and buisinesses that a court finds to be descriminatory so that the need for court resolutions become rare (not zero as court resolutions are still sometimes necessary with AA). 2) If we want to continue to build a cycle of success for minority kids, we need to do it as a society, black and white outside of the government sphere. AA I feel in SOME WAYS deters this.

Just curious, how much does the federal AA program cost? I would assume not very much but I don’t know.

55

Prof

I just don’t know. I am not saying some don’t need help. I just don’t see it as the governments place to do it.

My grandparents were immigrants. They were lucky if they had two nickels to rub together. They sure as hell were not slave owners. How could I or my children be asked to make up for something like that. I am limiting my comments to those that ask for reparations.

As to affirmative action. Again many minorities didn’t need it. Some need it for an extremely long time. Somewhere a line should be drawn or a deadline set.

56

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Look peeps. We know that AA was necessary when it started. There were millions of blacks seeking education and there was no friggin way for the court system to handle it case by case. Furthermore, a lot of courts/judges were racist. AA was an example of a law written out of economy kind of like martial law. If you think it was originally unnecessary your crazy, or ignorant or malinformed or racist. That’s all there is to that. [/quote]

I don’t see how anyone who was born in the 80’s or earlier could find this that hard to comprehend. They didn’t even make “black” Barbies until the 80’s. This wasn’t 150 years ago. It took that long just for us to be seen anywhere near equal…yet no one can comprehend the need for AA when it was instituted?

Some of you honestly believe that in 1970, out of two applicants with the exact same scores and grades applying to the same school, with the only difference being one was black and one was white, that the black kid had equal chance of getting into that college? Hell, does anyone believe that if the black kid had higher grades that he would have gotten into college before the white kid? I honestly can’t understand anyone being that out of touch with the way the world was working just this last generation. Things have come a long way, in part because of affirmative action. There is no doubt that it was needed. The only significant question is if it is needed in the same form right now.

57

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This translates, even now, into questions like, “You’re the doctor?”

[/quote]

this might seem trivial, but im willing to bet its more of your size then your race. If you looked like will smith, or bill cosby, hell even allen iverson and they asked you that I could see your point. But if i walked in to my doctor’s and saw some red-haired ultra irished casper looking motherfucker that looked like he does presses with the examing table while waiting for the patient, i would ask him too if he was the doctor.

58

[quote]hoosierdaddy wrote:

this might seem trivial, but im willing to bet its more of your size then your race.[/quote]

It’s not trivial. I understand that. I also know that there is another guy on staff, an assistant, who also lifts weights avidly (probably weighs about 230-235lbs while I was hitting 260lbs in that pic in my avatar) and most patients don’t respond to him the same when he walks in the room. Mind you, aside from a name tag, we are all dressed in scrubs so they don’t know who the doctor is until I introduce myself. It isn’t just the size, but I know that plays a part in it. Do you get the complimentary “doorlock” when you walk past someone in their car? That just happened to me (again) as I was leaving the store tonight. I just love that.

59

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Do you get the complimentary “doorlock” when you walk past someone in their car? That just happened to me (again) as I was leaving the store tonight. I just love that.
[/quote]

Do you never lock your door when someone you consider shady is walking by? I’m not saying that hearing that click doesn’t suck for you, but don’t you ever do that?

60

[quote]doogie wrote:

Do you never lock your door when someone you consider shady is walking by? I’m not saying that hearing that click doesn’t suck for you, but don’t you ever do that? [/quote]

I can’t think of a time I have been afraid of someone simply walking near my car. If I see a weapon or they look like they are about to attack, that would be a different story…so no, I don’t do that. I sure as hell wouldn’t pick and choose who to do it for even if I did. Your logic is faulty. Looking “shady” is cause for you to lock your door…but someone who looks “inviting” isn’t? Someone non-biased would lock their door as soon as they get in…not sit there assuming they were safe UNTIL a black (or “shady” as you put it) guy walks past. I know you don’t understand what you typed because you honestly think it makes sense. If someone is going to rob you, they will not walk calmly past your car on the way to their car. Chances are, you would never see them coming. They are more likely to attack you while you are getting your keys out before you get in the car. You just enforced a stereotype. Of all people to lock your door in front of…I am one of the few that could save their life.

By the way, this was while I was leaving a grocery store while pushing a basket filled with groceries. I just happened to walk past their car while they were waiting at a stop sign in the parking lot (meaning they had plenty of time to lock the door if that was the only issue…they hadn’t parked yet) I was going to drop my merchandise to take someone else’s car that costs about 10,000 bucks less than mine? The look on their face was priceless though.