T Nation

2 Quick Questions: Hcg, Front Loading

proposed cycle (first cycle):

week 1-12

test e @ 250mg e3d
a-dex @ .25 eod


wk 14-15
nolva 40mg
wk 16-17
nolva 20mg

questions. i don’t have hcg on hand and was wondering how neccessary it is? i could get it, but most sources have a minimum order amount and then you’ve got shipping to tend with. all this for hcg, is it worth it???

also, frontloading. with 250/1 amps should i fromtload 750?? or 500mg??



(583mg * 5 / 7) + 250 = 670mg ~ 2.7ml

I’d go with 3 amps = 750mg

As for hCG, why don’t you make this an 8 week cycle so recovery will be easier and hCG will not be required. Not saying hCG is absolutely essential for 12 weeks, but a case can be made for it at that cycle length. In my experience the cycle starts to drag after 8 weeks anyway.

i’d rather do a 12 week’er, lol. i’m greedy. maybe i’ll bite the bullet and get some hcg and some prop and front load with the prop. thanks bro.

There was a shopkeeper – sold tropical fish and accessories, in NYC – that I remember who was greedy.

Most prices, of necessity to manage to sell anything, were in line with other places but every now and then he couldn’t resist the temptation caused by his greed and so he would label something at three or four times the going price and hope some fool would pay it and he’d REALLY score. Mwa-ha-hahaha!!!

He was so greedy he once gave me a slug nickel in my change. Boy that must have made his day.

Of course, I would bet his actual income was LESS as a result of people disliking him and steering as much of their business as easily practical elsewhere on account of his greed, much more than making up for his occasional “scores.”

What is my point?

Greed does not always get you more.

If you want more results in a better way, buy 16 weeks worth and do 8 weeks on, 8 off, then 8 more on. At the 24 week point you will be in better shape than if you’d done a 12 week cycle and likewise were “off” as many weeks as “on.”

Or if all you can afford is 12 weeks’ worth, then do a 6 week cycle, take 6 weeks off, and do another 6 week cycle. Results will be better at that time point and thereafter than had you done the 12 week cycle, also.

Wanting more results is good. Being so avaricious of them that one greedily does actually-less-profitable things is not the way to go.

point taken. thanks bill and dyno. it’s not about affording. i’ve got enough (allegedely) var and human grade test enth to not have to purchase either for quite awhile. just want to do it right. my thinking was that test enth wouldn’t even kick in for a few weeks, but anyway.

would a prop kick start be more worth while than a test enth front load. the front load would still take a few weeks, or almost a few weeks to kick in and the prop would be pretty much immediately, right???

how about this…

week 1 to 8 test e 250mg e3d
week 1 to 4 test prop 100mg eod

pct week
10-nolva @ 40mg
11-nolva@ 20mg
13-nolva @ 2omg
14-nolva @ 20mg

i’ve got test e, var, nolva, a-dex plus all the extra’s… i could pick up some prop or whatever i need really…

thoughts… thanks again.

No, the front load works pretty much immediately. (Not so much on literally the first day though.)

So enanthate could be used throughout.

Actually if having both enanthate and propionate, I prefer switching to propionate for the end, so as to more closely approximate the ideal of always being either at the target androgen levels or at being at levels allowing recovery, rather than spending considerable time at neither one condition nor the other.

so enth with a frontload then mid cycle start the prop all the way up to 3 days before pct??? sound right??? thanks for the help mr. roberts…

That’s good. Depending on how much of each you have on hand, it would also be fine to make the switch with only 2 weeks to go or even a bit closer than that.

Glad to be of any help!