T Nation

2 Journalists Gunned Down in Iraq


#1

Thoughts??


#2

That's the results of American imperialism for you. Sad stuff, but not surprising.


#3

I despise journalists, they got exactly what they deserve. those 30mm rounds pack a punch.


#4

Spoiler Alert! People die in War.


#5

That guy gave an 8 digit grid he's shit hot. Unconventional warfare is a bitch, that guy shouldve slapped a Red Cross sign on his van :slight_smile:

I feel alot of activists seeing this as a fault in the rules of engagement.


#6

This is war. Did you know soldiers are people too? And yet... where is the supposed scandal when they die? Soldiers are people too, no?

If the journalist or ANYONE chooses to go into a fucking war zone and dies, don't act all surprised. War is not pretty.


#7

Additional links:
Transcript: http://collateralmurder.com/en/transcript.html
Al Jazeera coverage: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/04/201045123449200569.html
BBC coverage: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8603938.stm
The Pentagon has yet to confirm the video. They're set to confirm authenticity later today.

It appears that the air crew lied about encountering a firefight. There was none; they just mistook a camera for a gun. Maybe it's just me, but they claimed several of those guys had AK-47's and they looked obviously empty-handed.

Something seems to be terribly wrong here. And before we get all flippant: they just killed eight people. I've never known death personally but I know I'd never be able to handle that happening to my father.


#8

News flash! If you go anywhere in the ME as a westerner your chances of dying increase 10 fold. Except in the UAE, there they'll just put your ass in prison.


#9

Now confirmed by a senior military official: NYT story here. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/world/middleeast/06baghdad.html?hp


#10

Sort of reminds me of the beginning of Running Man.

It was pretty weak that one of the military guys said they didn't know how the children were hurt.


#11

We spent a billion dollars a week in Iraq for several years, ostensibly trying to rebuild it. What a fucking waste of money. It should have been spent right here in America instead. People complain that using tax dollars for healthcare reform is a violation of their civil liberties. If anything, spending my tax dollars in IRAQ is a violation of my civil liberties.


#12

I agree with your sentiments.


#13

so liberal, how is it a violation of your civil liberties.


#14

Soldiers kill civilians.
This creates insurgents.
Insurgents kill soldiers.
This creates soldiers.
More $$$ needed to train and outfit this soldier to kill insurgents.
Soldiers kill insurgents (who used to be civilians).
Soldiers also kill civilians ( noooo!).

.... process repeats till we are broke.


#15

those guys sound like dumbfucks who've played a little too much COD, I bet that's their motivation for joining up in the first place. Its obvious they just wanted to shoot at something given the way they're talking, like high school kids. WHOA DUDE TOTALLY HARDCOREZ23432!!!!! Didn't realize the U.S army had such shit standards


#16

^^ they're officers too, cream of the crop. Unfortunately, as far as military socialization, we want people that are more eager than reserved when it comes to killing and violence. The military doesn't CREATE aggression or try to increase it, it socializes people to take society's restraints off their aggression.

I don't think any of the top brass is pissed about the conversation that took place, they're gonna be pissed civilians got an inside look, perhaps.

Also, those machines are beautiful from a military point of view. You could get an 8 year old to kill unrestrained 365 days a year all because of the sheer distance between the aggressor and what he's doing.


#17

Thoughts?.....Good shooting. Not a lot of wasted rounds. They all went where they were aiming.

You think that language is bad. I don't. Combat and war is stressful. I've heard a lot worse.

Was it a camera? Maybe it was a SAM-7 Manpad. Can you tell the difference in a helicopter that's moving, looking into a tiny screen with a 2500 hp turbine whining about 3 ft. from your head. One way to know for sure. See if he shoots it at you. Of course then it's too late. Looks a lot clearer on your computer monitor then it is in real life.

Journalists got killed while hanging around with insurgents in a war zone where active operations are happening. They made a bad choice. It cost them this time.

Lot of details left out of this story I'm sure but that's the way it is with propaganda and disinformation campaigns.

Here is a more factual report:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/collateral-murder-baghdad-anything


#18

Excellent insight.


#19

I read the Weekly Standard article.

Here's the thing. The article reports as fact that in the group of men several had guns and one had an RPG. Now the AUDIO says that, but I do not see that. Maybe I'm just unobservant? Do any of you see that?

I will defer to more knowledgeable people about what war is like. But if you say the conditions and stress are such that killing civilians is inevitable ... well, you said it, not I.

Also, yes, soldiers are people too and i'd have to be nuts to be indifferent to them dying.


#20

Alisa, from 3:37 - 4:02 you can see men with rifles (or something suspiciously like rifles) in their hands.

And, 4:06 - 4:26 - lokk at the corner of the building, you can see a man kneeling peeking around corner, with something long, straight, black in his hands. One of the soldiers then says they were being fired upon.