True. But it will take a long time–a number of generations–for the effects of racism to work their way through and out of society.
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I know you have at least one child who is of driving age. Allow me to ask you a hypothetical. Let’s pretend you have two sons, both 19, both adopted. One is white, the other black. You have loved and raised them in identical fashion, and have taught both to be respectful of LEOs. In this regard, you are confident both have internalized these lessons well.
It’s a Saturday night. Both are out alone, driving around (in identical cars). Like any parent, you always have some degree of worry about your children when they’re out and about. My question is this: Given what you know about the racial attitudes of some LEOs, would you worry more about the safety of your black son?
Or, put another way: Do you think you would have an extra ‘talk’ with your black son, over-and-above the one you had with his white brother, concerning what to do if stopped?
I really want you to put yourself in this scenario, and try to come up with an honest answer as to how you would feel. (I’ll be happy to answer myself if you’d like.)
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I’d be worried more about the black kid. I’ve known and worked with plenty, pretty much my whole life. Some good, some bad, most just like anybody else. The one thing that they have all said is that they are scared of the police, and they all have their own reasons.
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Thank you for chiming in (sincere, not snark). I feel the exact same way. I would be scared to death for my black son.
“Vasquez took advantage of a campaign hosted by Mexican consulates in which community groups offer free legal advice to help naturalize U.S. immigrants.”
This is getting tiresome doctor. I was not alive during the Civil War or Neil Armstrong’s first step, but I believe they happened without certified organic, locally sourced, free range, gmo-free, and proof a Buddhist priest farted on it kinda of media.
I’m not so sure. As I said 66 million people voted for Obama the first time. And had he actually been a good President he would have gotten that many a second time. How many of those voters were white? 40 million?
Go check it out you like doing that stuff
I would absolutely worry more about my black son than my white son.
And here is a bit of the talk that I would have with him:
“Son be careful when you go out tonight because unfortunately some young black men (some) have created a very hostile atmosphere for Police Officers. They do this by non compliance and basic rebellion. I know I raised you to comply and I know if you are pulled over you will comply with the lawful order of a Police Officer. But unfortunately too many young black men have been deprived of growing up with a positive male role model in the household. That means that they are not used to immediately complying with authority. Unfortunately, that leads to many of them getting arrested or harmed by the police. I know you will behave properly if pulled over so I am not worried about you. But keep in mind the officer pulling you over has been pre conditioned through young black non-compliance that you may resist. He will lower his guard once he sees that you are fully compliant. Oh …and (I would tell both my sons) if you are arrested for any reason your first call is to be to me.”
Hey that was fun now I want you to pretend that you have adopted two transgender midget females. One of them is gay and the other one is straight. But the first one joined the Nazi party and the second one is a conservative republican…and…um…I guess that’s enough.
Go ahead and tell me what you would say to them.
Wealth inequality between blacks and whites exists in every western country not just America.
A good way to lessen growing wealth inequality is to stop importing more African immigrants.
You must have forgotten all of our previous conversations on the subject.
I agree that people like Al Sharpton can be Ann Coulter-like in the sense that he can be a professional agitator at this point in his career. There was a time when he did good work, but profit has definitely overtaken his motive.
However, I don’t see anyone anywhere saying I can’t suceed cause I’m “a-colored.” I regularly see people saying “you have to be 2x as good as the worst white person to be accepted into their workplaces.” And that you have a higher barrier to entry than other groups. But those are things to be aware of, to make you work harder.
These sorts of conversations take place in our community often.
I answered this here:
LOL I don’t think my wife would have liked that much.
You’re right, young black males do get arrested for crimes they commit.
You continue to show you’re listening to and looking at the car saying: “something is wrong with it.” I’m under the hood, let’s bring you under the hood.
Even though we use drugs are virtually the same rates, we are arrested and incarcerated at a much higher rate. Further, we get longer sentences when we are incarcerated.
This has been going on since Nixon’s war on drugs began when 1g of Crack (85% of arrests for crack were black males) got you the same amount of time as 100g of cocaine.
One of Nixon’s aides even admitted to the “War on Drugs” being pointed against Blacks.
This has been going on since 1971 – fast forward to 2017 and this is a major player in where Black males disappeared to.
How the cocaine got into the US? I wouldn’t know…but if you’re poor and Black you’re not flying to Columbia to make connections to get coke in the country.
But we did allow contras to sell us cocaine in exchange for weapons…via the CIA…where that cocaine went is questionable.
_After The Associated Press reported on these connections in 1985, for example, more than a decade before Webb, then-Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) launched a congressional investigation. In 1989, Kerry released a detailed report claiming that not only was there “considerable evidence” linking the Contra effort to trafficking of drugs and weapons, but that the U.S. government knew about it.
According to the report, many of the pilots ferrying weapons and supplies south for the CIA were known to have backgrounds in drug trafficking. Kerry’s investigation cited SETCO Aviation, the company the U.S. had contracted to handle many of the flights, as an example of CIA complicity in the drug trade. According to a 1983 Customs Service report, SETCO was “headed by Juan Ramon Matta Ballesteros, a class I DEA violator.”
Two years before the Iran-Contra scandal would begin to bubble up in the Reagan White House, pilot William Robert “Tosh” Plumlee revealed to then-Sen. Gary Hart (D-Colo.) that planes would routinely transport cocaine back to the U.S. after dropping off arms for the Nicaraguan rebels. Plumlee has since spoken in detail about the flights in media interviews.
“In March, 1983, Plumlee contacted my Denver Senate Office and … raised several issues including that covert U.S. intelligence agencies were directly involved in the smuggling and distribution of drugs to raise funds for covert military operations against the government of Nicaragua,” a copy of a 1991 letter from Hart to Kerry reads. (Hart told HuffPost he recalls receiving Plumlee’s letter and finding his allegations worthy of follow-up.)_
(I know it’s HuffPost, but most of the excerpt is facts from the congressional investigation)
Am I saying the CIA colluded with Regan to destroy black communities? There’s no direct evidence of that…but that’s what the concept of plausible deniability is.
I’m more focused on the fact that Blacks and Whites use drugs at strikingly similar rates and yet, Blacks are incarcerated at a much greater rate, for longer times. The two graphs I showed you are one of many pieces of evidence for this.
Eye Dentist demonstrated above that poor whites and blacks commit crimes at similar rates, but Blacks, once again are incarcerated at a much higher rate.
Is that enough “fact” for you?
I’m glad we’re both getting something out of this 
I wasn’t sure at first. ha
From the link you provided:
"As with other clinics hosted by Mexican consulates, legal counsel at the Orlando event was provided by a community organization and not by diplomats, which Mexico says shows it isn’t interfering in the country’s election.
The purpose of the workshops was to help empower immigrants, Mexico’s Foreign Minister Claudia Ruiz Massieu said in an interview. “We don’t promote voting or specifically participating in this election,” she said."
In other words, it runs exactly counter to the point you were trying to make.
If you’re going to engage in discussions with me, I suggest, respectfully, that you get used to it. I am not inclined to accept empirical claims on face value. (The present exchange provides an excellent case-in-point as to why I am reluctant to do so.) Likewise, I would not expect anyone to accept my empirical claims without supporting evidence. Sauce for the goose, etc.
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I’m speaking of the socioeconomic disadvantage AAs find themselves in (the wealth gap being but one measure thereof). It has little or nothing to do with who is occupying the WH.
Man, would I like to be a fly on the wall during that conversation.
I would say ‘Great news! Your Uncle @zeb1 called–he wants y’all to come live with him!’
It is evident you don’t have a black child. We have conversations like this, but the generally it’s much shorter: “When the cops pull you over your do exactly as they say, respond yes-sir, no sir, yes ma’am, no ma’am.”
No need to explain everything else you said to them…they already know the stigmas alleged against them in society. It’s ingrained into your aging process.
my thoughts exactly.
This is nonsense, if the consultate is holding a workshop to help immigrants vote, they are in fact trying to influence the election. I don’t care what the foreign minister claims, her actions prove otherwise.
You are being a weenie, please stop it. This is not curing cancer. We are trying to have a light hearted discussion, both thought provoking and hopefully funny. No one here is requiring data proven by credible sources for every single statement brought up on these forums. Relax, switch to decaf, and stop living every moment in a journal, study, or poll. You are sounding a lot like Bismark.
Ironic that you would say this, as your participation of late has been none of those things.
I for one have no interest in participating in a discussion where people are free to make up facts as they see fit, and then react indignantly when someone has the temerity to say ‘show me your data.’ Like the man said, you have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.
If you don’t care for the way I discuss things, feel free to ignore me, and I will in turn extend you the same courtesy.
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Seconded.
Max, there’s a paradox that I have observed wherein those who bemoan the “PC” culture that demands respect for every opinion or belief are some of the quickest to cry foul when their own opinion or belief is called into question. It is at this juncture that things like “evidence” and “facts” are usually helpful; in their absence it is difficult to ascertain whether your opinion or belief has merit.
If you are going to make a claim such as “Mexico’s government attempted to influence the election” it seems fair to ask why you believe this other than “I said so” - while you are, of course, entitled to retain your opinion, it helps other readers make their own assessment regarding the value of your claim.
Take one of my “favorite” debates…whether or not vaccines “cause” autism. Since this entire charade started with an (entirely falsified) experiment, billions of research dollars have been poured into this question, and well-conducted scientific studies have conclusively and robustly shown there is absolutely no relationship between vaccine exposure and autism. Unfortunately, that conclusion is unacceptable to some people, so they do what EyeDentist stated in the above quote - just make up their own “facts” to suit their opinion or belief.
I’m certainly not against things like “fun” and “laughs” and “light-hearted discussions” but when you start drawing lines in the sand and declaring things as fact, it seems useful to produce some train of thought so people can figure out how you arrived at a conclusion like “Mexico meddled in the election.”
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Too long and time consuming to go line by line no time. Even on a Saturday I am working. But I respect you and do not want to ignore you (I only ignore posters that I do not respect).
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We agree Al Sharpton is a professional agitator.
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We agree that a black person may very well have to work harder than a white person to break into the same hierarchy in certain work places. Others perhaps its about the same. As I always say to my business friends. I could not care less the color of someone’s skin and if you do you are not only cheating that person you are cheating yourself as you have just limited your employee pool to certain races and that harms YOU. A few hate when I say that but most get it. The only color I care about is green…as in the color of money. (Okay that probably doesn’t sound good. But hopefully you know what I mean). And employ some talented minorities and I’m glad I hired them.
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About my wife joke. Humor is an important part of a successful long term relationship. So a good natured joke now and then is healthy. I have been happily married over two decades so please trust me on that one. As a culture we have all become far to politically correct. Jerry Seinfeld said that he wouldn’t play on College Campuses any longer because they’ve become too pc. We are way off topic now but I am sure we can agree on this.
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We have some disagreement on black arrests. Your chart shows that African Americans use drugs at a higher rate than whites every year for 11 years straight. You are saying that its close and I do not disagree. This promotes my theory that they get arrested more because of behavior and failure to comply. Give that some thought I think it has merit. Not that it is the only reason and I never said it was. Policing is difficult and no doubt there are some cops who get very antsy around black suspects. They may over react no doubt.
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The war on drugs may very well have been pointed against blacks. But Nixon did blacks far less harm than President Johnsons war on poverty. Handing people money for doing nothing assures that they’ll continue to do nothing. I think there should be agreement on both our parts on this one.
Finally, I have never made the assumption that all young black males are non compliant, or drug users or guys that impregnate their female partners and then vacate the area. Please don’t assume all well to do middle age white guys are naturally biased against black people, or racist in any way, or have no empathy for what it is like to be a minority and have to struggle with various issues on a daily basis. But in the end regardless of our backgrounds each person must take full responsibility for his or her actions. If we can agree on the above it has been a very nice conversation and I walk away a better man for having it.
Go out and make it a great year my friend!
Zeb
Hahahahaah…that was very funny. But if you really knew me you’d know that I actually love all people. If I can actually help someone I will do it. I drive my wife crazy because I always stop by the side of the road when I see someone stranded. She warns me that one day someone will pull a gun on me. And my retort is always…If one person cannot help another person without fearing such things then who really wants to live in this world anyway? That sounds like something a left wing loon would say so don’t spread it around.
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Hey man I did the best I could on that pop quiz. If I had a chance to study I would have aced it!