Thanks for all of the contributions so far. This thread has room to grow, and I hope it does.
Someone searching the site for help after a herniated disc would benefit greatly from having everything posted or linked to in one place.
well here is my story
over the winter i got “serious” about weight training, problem was my form was very askew as i was very unexperienced when it came to squats and deadlifts.
One day i was deadlifting, first set at 135 to warmpup, then i thought hell i feel great today, lets go heavey, so i put on 225 (after only one warmup set) the weight was very hard for me to handle (yes terrible DL i know) but i did tough out about 3 sets of 7 reps. Problem was i beleive i was rounding my lumbar zone like crazy. didnt hear any snap or feel hurt all of a sudden, but asuredly a couple hours later i was in terrible pain, all of the lumbar spine. Anyways i took a week off after this, and it slowly got better, the pain eventually was reduced to my right side spinal erector in the lumbar zone. so i read up on some proper deadlift form then eventually maybe a month later got back at it.
my form still probably sucked and it never felt right at all. After it was obvious that i wasnt going to be pain free anytime soon, i saw a chiro, he was pretty decent, sort of into olympic lifting so he helped me on some deadlift form, so now i finally know what proper form feels like. Then something great happens, im pain free! so i start DLing again, everything feels great!, except for one day where for no appearent reason my back felt abit sore, then i deadlifted that day with good form but probably not perfect and then boom, im almost as bad off as right after the injury.
Anyways im still trying to figure out what the actually injury is, gonna see a doctor if it doesnt go away soon. the pain i feel now is still only in the right spinal erector in the lumbar region and its usually only bad in the mornings. i am pretty sure the reason why it is only on one side is because when i recieved the intital injury i had an assmetry in strength in the muscles on my right leg…and the reason why i had the asymetry was because of an earlier injury to my knee from highschool football that was never rehabed properly. I have since gotten that taken care of(bulgarian squats rule!) but the pain can still be pretty bad in my erector. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how to treat it?
right now im doing Mag mobility and it is working pretty well,whenever i have pain i do those drills and my back always feels better after that.
[quote]Flow wrote:
skidmark wrote:
gi2eg wrote:
DragnCarry wrote:
gi2eg wrote:
My core is perhaps my strongest body “part” now, since introducing weighted front planks. Currently up to +280lbs for a strict 30 second hold.
Good effort, how are you weighting yourself for this?
I have someone stack 45lb plates on my back.
And no, I don’t know about other people doing this, but it really doesn’t seem dangerous to me at all. Can feel fatigue coming on from pretty far away.
I got a loading pin and attached it to a dipping belt. Means I have to suspend myself between two benches, but it works. Only up to 110 lbs for a minute though.
How many sets did you guys do these weighted planks for? What was the weekly frequency? Did you go for a solid 30 second hold and just increase the weight the next time to progress?
I think I’m going to include these in my training like so:
A. Weighted planks
30 second hold
3 sets
60 seconds rest
weight progression
B. BW Plank hold to failure
~ second hold
1 set
beat last week’s best time
I think I’m going to use this exercise group 2x a week: once after my Front Squat session, and once after my Zercher Squat/Deadlift variation session.
The plank hold to failure is just an idea I had to get the concept of bracing my core under stress well ‘learned’.[/quote]
Right now i’m doing 3 sets of 30 weighted. It was quite a while before i used any weight at all, though.
Your setup looks pretty good IMO, just take it slower than you think you need to. Don’t go to failure but 10 seconds short of it (figure this out).
[quote]FROGGBUSTER wrote:
terrific thread.
i’m undergoing my first back injury at the age of 19. got some X-rays done and apparently i have a slipped L5 disc.
i’ve been going to the Chiro for 5 days and i already feel better.
i’m sure this thread will help me really accelerate the recovery. thanks a lot for your contributions guys.
i have a question however: some of you mention front squatting even while having back problems. are you guys sure this is wise? although you’re not using your erectors to move the weight, i still would think that having a heavy weight on your shoulders would force some unhealthy compression of the lower back.[/quote]
I did not front squat for months…I was doing bodyweight movements for a while. Only added front squats when i was ready.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
gi2eg wrote:
I have a herniated l5-S1.
Pain was so bad at one point that I couldnt sleep or walk sometimes.
Here’s what I did:
I lurked at T-Nation for a year or so and made my first post here after hurting my back: Degenerative Disc Disease, compression, and lumbosacral spondylosis in L5-S1 and L2-L3. I literally could not stand up or walk for days, until I good chiropractic care, then started rehabbing.
Interestingly, through my own research, I turned up many of those references that gi2eg wrote, and followed an almost identical path
(more detail in log: http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2149580 ) . I have found however that in my case, sprints actually agitate my back.
I started out with single leg and bodyweight movements, progressing to dumbbells. Even though I’ve progressed, I still do them religiously as well as ‘hang’ anytime I can. When I finally got back under a bar, I started with front and zercher squats and didn’t even put a bar on my back until about 8 months later. Now just over a year later, I’ve hit PR’s in deadlift and squats-- but I took it slloooowww.
My back is still tweaky and there’s really very few moments I don’t think about it-- that ‘pain memory’ is what drives me to respect every rep (good form, body awareness, etc).
The mobility work is essential. Daily requirement. Like protein. In between sets I’ll do deep BW squats. High leg stuff. Side-to-side hip stuff. Amazing how when that stuff is mobile how much my back feels.
Good thread, good info. Best of luck on the recovery![/quote]
Good post. Sprints definitely agitated my back as well until I got to a new “level” in my recovery. And when I added them, they were light (not full speed).
I’m sortve fast now (sub 25s 200m/51s 400m without serious speed training) and I attribute this speed to my ability to keep superstiff throughout my core while sprinting (basically not losing any upper body drive power there).
I have lower back problems for about 2 years. They come and go… The worst thing for my back is… stress. Few days I lost my job. Although I expectesd it and feel bad about it, my lower back got really, really tight.
And here are my 2 cents about training when injured:
- always warm up! You have no time? do only a warm up.
- if your back is tight, relax, take a break, learn progressive (or other) relaxation technique
- when my back is tight, only exercises I do are those that can release that tension
- best ways to release tension: sport massage, rest, running(*), crawling(**)
- Running for releasing back tension in lower back: you run only in the very soft terrain (woods) with lot’s of barriers. You make very small steps. You don’t try to make your steps bigger. You can feel light constant pain, but you shouldn’t feel sharp one.
** Crawling: you crawl on your stomach using only your hands. Imagine that you have no feeling of your legs. Now move…
I read Stuart Mcgill’s Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance.
If you’re experiencing back troubles, you need to pick it up.
If I were to put the whole thing in a nutshell that neglected the finer points of the book, I’d say:
Mcgill recommends focusing on core endurance initially then moving on to core strength development without losing sight of the former goal.
He recommends progressing from static to dynamic drills with distinct individual progressions for each exercise. Additionally, muscles that can contribute to back problems (psoas) should be lengthened to an optimal point through dynamic and, if necessary, static stretching.
This is a spark-notes write up of the book, but there are anecdotes, exercises, and progressions I will not note here that you need to check out for yourself.
I’ve made good progress so far with my own back issue. Check out my log to see what I’ve done:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2259068&pageNo=1
If you see something that looks wrong, let me know! 
I sincerely appreciate the input.
L5-S1 herniation here.
A few things I learned from my chiro that have helped me.
-
Prone press ups: Like an abdominal stretch. Get into the pushup position but leave your pelvis on the ground. Extend the arms … essentially you put your back into hyper-extension.
-
Swimming bird-dog (I made up the name): For those familiar with MM, its a similar motion except performed in the prone. Bird-dog was too painful for me at first, but this is a good way to work up to 2 point bird-dogs. Its like a superman hold except with only one arm and one leg.
Bumping the thread to update the article list with MR’s awesome article from today
Also, I must add that ~2 sessions a week of difficult core training is about all you need to get some great core strength.
Recently, I made the mistake of hitting my abs hard every time I was in the gym. This lead to falling forward in a front squat and a mild advent of back pain.
So, don’t go nuts.
bump
I want to add some things, as I am going through lower back injury recovery now. Do not forget that your lumbars spine needs some moevement. I avoided it for 2 years, trying to do all the motions without flexing it. 2 problems with it. When you happen to make an unpredicted movement, your whole spine needs to be able to move, similar to a snake. This way when you fall down or get hit, the power gets amortisatedt. In my case, all “bad movemnts” accumulated at the stiffest part of my spine. The second thing is, avoiding lower back flexion (all the time) an lead to even tighter lower back.
Some othet foughts:
- scorpions done in a proper way can be healing
- make sure your hips are even
- make exercises for SI joint
- activation exercises for glutes are quite tricky. Work through them before getting back into bodybuilding
- lower back endurance, core strenghting - before bodybuilding.
Hey everyone this is a great thread, I haven’t been injured in my back but do not have the greatest deadlift form so I wanna do everything to stay injury-free.
just a question if anyone knows:
Does the DVD Magnificent Mobility cover a lot of these topics? About not bending the lumbar spine etc. when doing any type of activies?
Thoughts from last few days:
- quadratus lumborum is where it’s at. QL gets iritated easily and it’s not easy for self release. Take care of it.
- glutes are the next area for myofascial release
- if your glutes are not super strong and active - squats and deadlifts are not to be used
[quote]Sportowiec wrote:
- if your glutes are not super strong and active - squats and deadlifts are not to be used[/quote]
X2 this is so true. I took a good leave from squatting and deadlifting to work on single leg movements and strengthening my core.
That is a video of my second time deadlifting in ~6-7 months, since my lower back injury.
My form has improved many times over due to all of the glute-specific work.
Now it’s time to get some simple progressions going toward more weight on the barbell.
I have a bulging disc at L4-L5 and moderate scoliosis centered on L1 (though actually L4/L5 gets the worst of the scoliosis).
First: EVERYONE interested in protecting or rehabbing their lower back needs to read everything by McGill. That means anyone who lifts at all.
I got injured doing a circa-max squat that turned into a good morning. It’s a common but very dangerous error. This leads to my rule #2.
EVERYONE NEEDS A KNOWLEDGABLE TRAINING PARTNER.
I knew I had a tendency to make the good-morning error but I shrugged it off. Then I switched to max-effort style training and 6 months later the form error caught up with me when the weight finally got too damn heavy. A partner will notice your mistakes, tell you when you need to back off and work on form, and generally remind you to leave your ego outside.
For anyone who has been injured, the most important thing is PATIENCE. Most back injuries are not death sentences. It was five months before I started front squats again and that was last week. I’m expecting another five months before back squats.
Rule 3. GLUTES ARE KEY
besides the obvious core endurance and strength, your butt will spare your back more than anything else (assuming proper form) Even if I bend over to pick something off the floor, the glutes are doing everything. Do activation excersises (trust me - your glutes don’t fire as much as you think) and strengthen them with unilateral work. Learn to “spread the floor” (abduction and external rotation) the whole way during any lift. Depending on the lift, this may cost you speed but that obviously doesn’t matter when you’re going for reps or weight. You can do this with a narrow stance, too, See Vince Anello.
Finally, you have to do dynamic core stability. Meaning that planks and bridges are nice but don’t teach you how to stabilize during dynamic mechanics (single leg work and just about all sports and evryday situations). When you are able, do walking suticase carries. Get a sandbag (no more than 50lbs) and walk with it in various positions. I carry gorceries in 2 hands from the store and the swinging bags are a stability challenge. This will get you breathing and force you to leanr how to uase your diaphram independently of the abdminal wall, which is another KEY.
Ben.K,
thank you and great post, but i was hoping you’d go into more detail about keeping diaphram use independant of the abdominal wall
i understand its key, and that focussing on breathing (hard cardio probably would be good for this ? yes no?) and TVA stuff is importnat, but not much more than that
thanks alot
To go off Ben.K’s point regarding dynamic core work. . .
http://www.performanceu.net/video_link07.html
I suggest you guys subscribe to his newsletter.
Flow, be sure you are finishing those deads with your glutes, just like you would like to hump the bar. From the video it looks like you are not doing this, but I am not sure, because of the angle of the camera. Other then that cheers on the come back! I am not there yet, but I will be eventually!
I actually gave up squatting and deadlifting after several lower back injuries which lead to rehab 2 years ago. Xrays were fine and I had some MAT done along with usual rehab for back. I wanted to start lifting heavy again so I finally decided to correct some imbalances. I started with Robertson’s Hips Don’t Lie Hips Don't Lie
Now I am finishing up Part 2 of his Neanderthal No More. I have followed these to the tee and have had great results. Now I’m going to spend 2-4 weeks on my shoulders,core and posterior chain before I hit Cressey’s Maximum Strength workout or Westside stuff.
After all these years of lifting I finally figured out how much of a difference it makes taking in a big belly full of air before a lift. I’ve incorporated this into my everyday activities and it has made all the difference. My advice would be to stay away from the belt also. I relied on it so much when I started out that it did more harm than good. Recruiting patterns hence back injuries.
[quote]Sportowiec wrote:
Flow, be sure you are finishing those deads with your glutes, just like you would like to hump the bar. From the video it looks like you are not doing this, but I am not sure, because of the angle of the camera. Other then that cheers on the come back! I am not there yet, but I will be eventually![/quote]
Thanks, Sportowiec. You’re right, I can do a better job of finishing the lift with my glutes. I have the weight locked out, but I don’t focus enough on actively squeezing my glutes. Will do that next time.
You’ll be there soon man. Just keep rollin’
bigg mike, when you finish your rehab, you might want to start slowly, before going into max strenght training. Build (especially lower back) endurance first. Then focus on mid range reps to eventually progress to max strenght work.