Do you have any research on this you can share? My e2 is pretty high and I’ve felt like I’ve taken an SSRI for a few weeks now, with the DE issues to boot, so it makes sense. But I guess it goes against all of the estrogen is good, don’t use AI’s talk that is so common lately.
Honestly, just google estrogen’s affect on serotonin.
The whole E2 is good may be true, but for some men, it affects things. There are MANY outliers.
SSRI just increase the amount of serotonin circulating by inhibiting it’s reuptake (metabolizing).
You could always try some low dose arimidex to see if you feel anything positive. For me, I need a higher FT, but with that (due to low shbg) I get a high Free E2, which affects boner.
Some guys, unbeknownst to some on this board, have a hard time with their body setting the correct aromatization amount so a bad ratio of T:E2 occurs and dampens the TRT experience.
Gotcha. And will do.
I could try like 0.25mg and see what happens. My E2 is usually 60-70’s so I don’t think I’d be at much risk of crashing it with a dose that low
Well that 60-70’s number is just total E2 in circulation. I don’t think we really see a FREE E2 test… which would be important, and it would be correlated with shbg level. What’s yours?
Some guys with a high shbg level may be ok with such an e2 level, as most is bound. Others may have a lower level, indicating more is circulating, ready to be used, which MAY be affecting things.
SHBG is highly important in my opinion.
I believe it’s important to think of E2 in terms of the way we look at TT compared to FT. TT is kinda irrelevant. It’s the FREE part that’s important.
My shbg is super high. It was 150’s in the beginning and down to 90’s last time I had it tested.
In that case that makes things even more complicated since we don’t really have a free e2 test that I know of and it’s a little different way of looking at it. Though, to me it makes sense.
remind me of your protocol?
100mg T cream AM
50mg T cream PM
Both to scrotum
Nothing else
There is actually a free e2 test that Quest offers apparently
I’m not versed in the creams. I’d think if creams don’t give you results, I’d look to injections weekly at a high dose. I"d start 150mg week if possible. I would think a small daily dose of cream test isn’t going to help with that SHBG level. Plus, the large shot will decrease the amount moreso.
@roscoe88 - same with me, doctor didn’t test before. He only tested E2 for the first time last December when I went through a rough patch.
On 120mg (34mg EOD) my non-sensitive E2 was 25.6 with a TT of 594. I don’t have the reference range, but I know the top of the E2 range was 60.
My most recent test in June on a higher, inconsistent dose (42-46mg EOD) was TT 1192, sensitive E2 of 41 and a free T of 223 (22.3 depending on conversion).
I think I had low T and low E for a long time. Before treatment, my TT averaged 260 (3 separate AM tests).
Maybe it’s a relaxation thing, that’s a good point/thought… But damn, it’s been going on my whole life it seems.
It’s weird because I had a 2-3 week period where things were awesome then I slowly went down hill from there. Mostly DE/sensitivity issues. Now I’m doing better than in the beginning but not as good as I was. The same time I got worse was when I started having this buzzing feeling on my head that I’ve only ever felt before when I tried ssri’s for a week or so many years ago. That’s why it interested me when you mentioned e2 and serotonin
I was on injections prior to that (150mg a week) and at around 6-7 weeks I had the same good results but was tired of sticking myself so I switched to cream, took another 6-7 weeks before I got the few weeks of feeling good again. I don’t know if I would have continued to feel good on injections if I had stuck with that originally but I’m probably going to switch back soon
Was there any change in DE between protocols? Maybe decreasing/increasing time that you noted?
Foreplay is key I think. I HATE when gf wants a “quickie”. All she has to do is open up… I have to work that thing up!
1 Like
I totally would, especially with that SHBG.
Then, once you’re on for a bit, THEN perhaps play with dose or an ai. I asked Crisler once if a weekly ai would be ok, taken day after weekly test shot, and he thought it a good idea.
1 Like
Gotcha. Some people claim that cream works great with people that have high shbg. Something about it being straight T and no ester but I have no idea if they know what they’re talking about. My free T was up around 39 at peak so it was def doing something.
I have a week or two left of cream then I’ll probably go back to injections unless something drastic happens between now and then
@roscoe88 - as strange as this might sound, I think I’ve developed some sort of PTSD around my constant ED before TRT.
When I used to get hard, I’d rush to get on top of her because once I got it in and pumping, I’d usually be fine.
Old habits die hard. I find myself doing some of the same stuff, even though I have a hard on now that will probably last fine for foreplay and sex… I get in pretty quick because I’m scared it will fail.
I’ve been getting better with trying to be more patient, but my fear really gets in the way of long foreplay sessions… Plus, she’s so sensitive, she’ll be done too soon if I’m not careful.
Believe me, I hear you.
The performance anxiety is awful. And I know all about once it’s in it’s generally fine (unless she has to take a quick pee break… ugh)
I’m experimenting a bit with buspar, which is for anxiety. Some drs believe anxiety is caused by high serotonin… others believe too low.
All this stuff (low arousal, anxiety, DE, PE, etc) is ALL interrelated. And neurotrasmitters play a huge role.
There is also something called Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder. I’ve been investigating there. There IS a med for it for women.
Read up on what 5HT1a is… and the other serotonin receptors. Also agonists of the 5HT1a and antagonists. Fascinating stuff in regards to libido/arousal/PE and DE.
Basically, increase dopamine (which you tried via tyrosine) and you decrease delay. And vice versa in regards to the 5HT1a receptor activation (i.e. serotonin).
1 Like
Side note: I’d cut off a few fingers to be normal, sexually.
1 Like
Wealth of information in that post @roscoe88, very much appreciated and a great thread to start pulling on.
I never thought about it kind that, but I would too. Maybe a toe in there too for good measure?
2 Likes
I only need a toe or two left
1 Like
@roscoe88
If it’s just estrogen that’s causing DE then take an AI and you should be fixed. Why haven’t you done that? Seems like a very easy way to test your hypothesis.
My pre-TRT E2 was 48 and on TRT is 80. I have no DE unless I take buprenorphine which makes me last hours. When I don’t take it I can finish in minutes regardless of estrogen. My SHBG is mid to high 30’s. I’ve taken AI’s and had low estrogen for long periods and it made no difference in that respect.
Once again I think we are trying to over simplify a complicated problem by saying it’s just estrogen (not any of the other gazillion things effected by testosterone).
Also, I took wellbutrin and it didn’t cause any change (DE/PE). Paxil made me not able to get hard.