“I am curious as to why you say don’t go cold turkey off tren though Swd.”
Yes I mean to cutoff Tren before going off other gear. IMO the Test Taper seems perfect to come off Tren - keep in mind though I only did ONE Test Taper (obviously I was very pleased with it).
You must have some cortisol backlash from all the training and quick gains and cortisol squashing you had while on Tren, so IMO coming straight off Tren and all gear to standard PCT must be a mess, even though I havent done it. As I’ve read here, there’s shutdown, and then there’s Tren shutdown.
Last time I only maintained the gains I made on 4 weeks of low dose Tren for the rest of the “regular” cycle. Tren is that powerful.
That’s what I figured you meant. Thanks. If you don’t mind, I’ve got a couple questions on that cycle…How much did you gain overall? How long was the rest of your overall cycle, and how much did you keep from it?
Also if you don’t mind, how much definition do you usually lose on after finishing your cutting cycles, since that’s a bit more directly applicable to my situation? Did you keep your carb intake the same after the cycle or change it?
500mg Test Cyp/week
350mg Tren E/week
250-300mg Masteron/week (maybe)
I have taken B6 in the past @ 480mg/day with no noticeable downside to it. But that was on my first tren cycle.
I think the actual occurance of tren gyno is a rarity, and if you can effectively control estrogen, almost impossible to contract.
I will be on .5mg Adex EOD, but if I were on test only, I don’t know that I would be taking it at all. I have done some lab ratting, and feel that at only 500mg/week I don’t really need an AI.
I will also be taking cranberry concentrate and drinking 2 gallons of water per day to help keep the kidneys clean.
I gained 15 pounds overall - only 2 pounds afer the initial 13 pound gain on 4 weeks of Tren! What I did continue to gain after the initial period though was strenght, and tons of endurance (I train MMA more than actual BB). Tren doesnt kill endurance but it does diminish it.
As for definition, when I go off, I definitely look more soft. I mean going off Tren but still being on cycle I looked more soft.
After going off all gear, I lost only 2 pounds with the Test Taper and to me that’s amazing, I usually lose a lot more. Even though I was about the same weight off cycle, I LOOKED smaller and softer.
One reason I maintained gains and looked softer is that I fought the urge to diet that seems to affect many of us after we go off. I deliberately ate more carbs and fat while off to keep gains.
I’ve discovered that when I cut while Off I lose to much lean mass compatred to doing it with “extra help”. I know many suggest to be lean as possible before a cycle. I’d rather do it with Tren (or Anavar)!
“I will also be taking cranberry concentrate and drinking 2 gallons of water per day to help keep the kidneys clean.” Nice tip Rainjack.
Hey Tone,
I didn’t have any estrogen-related sides on my test/tren cycle, and I was only using 6.25mg of aromasin a day. I guess it probably all depends on the individual, but having cabergoline on hand, just in case, sounds like a good idea.
Since I’m already done my cycle I’ll share some of the things I’ll try for my next run knowing what I know now.
I’d like to run tren-enanthate instead of tren-acetate, to give my body time to adjust with the test-prop front-load before the test/tren-enanthate esters kick in. Or else I’d start the tren-acetate in week 3.
I’d try a higher dose of tren, 500mg/week, to compare results from 350mg/week. I’ve heard that 75mg/day is noticeably more powerful than 50mg/day.
I’ll run some EQ throughout the cycle (not sure how much), to counteract the decrease in appetite.
Thanks SwD. Sorry for all the q’s bud. I’m trying to figure out my nutrition strategy about now (I should be working, but I’m undisciplined and eager). My goal is to get lean and stay lean coming off the cycle, and keeping a six pack afterwards. Obviously I’ve never had to figure out a situation like this before :). I think I’m going to be limiting carbs and making most of my diet pro/fat when coming off. Not a cut, just trying to maintain weight with low carbs. Hopefully this will help me keep more definition. I’ll figure something for cortisol out when I can take more time to read around.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Thanks SwD. Sorry for all the q’s bud. I’m trying to figure out my nutrition strategy about now (I should be working, but I’m undisciplined and eager). My goal is to get lean and stay lean coming off the cycle, and keeping a six pack afterwards. Obviously I’ve never had to figure out a situation like this before :). I think I’m going to be limiting carbs and making most of my diet pro/fat when coming off. Not a cut, just trying to maintain weight with low carbs. Hopefully this will help me keep more definition. I’ll figure something for cortisol out when I can take more time to read around.[/quote]
Let’s try to stay on topic w/out the hijacking Gorn.
Just saying thanks to all of the regulars with experience posting here. It’s just what I was after, and we’re getting a lot of good information on the subject for the most part.
[quote]Jelly Roll wrote:
Hey Tone,
I didn’t have any estrogen-related sides on my test/tren cycle, and I was only using 6.25mg of aromasin a day. I guess it probably all depends on the individual, but having cabergoline on hand, just in case, sounds like a good idea.
Since I’m already done my cycle I’ll share some of the things I’ll try for my next run knowing what I know now.
I’d like to run tren-enanthate instead of tren-acetate, to give my body time to adjust with the test-prop front-load before the test/tren-enanthate esters kick in. Or else I’d start the tren-acetate in week 3.
I’d try a higher dose of tren, 500mg/week, to compare results from 350mg/week. I’ve heard that 75mg/day is noticeably more powerful than 50mg/day.
I’ll run some EQ throughout the cycle (not sure how much), to counteract the decrease in appetite.
Jelly[/quote]
That’s great Jelly,
You seem to tolerate well the compounds talked about here.
The pics looked stunning man, I can’t imagine you getting any bigger,(eq addition), but the quality of gained mass looks phenomenol on you. Keep up the good work. You’re doing things right, that’s obvious to see.
You seem to tolerate well the compounds talked about here.
The pics looked stunning man, I can’t imagine you getting any bigger,(eq addition), but the quality of gained mass looks phenomenol on you. Keep up the good work. You’re doing things right, that’s obvious to see.
ToneBone
[/quote]
Thanks Tone. I think that part of the reason why I’ve been lucky is the large amount of cardiovascular/high-lactate work I do in my training. I’ve noticed on my 2 cycles that whenever I take a few days off from it I bloat up considerably (like 10lbs. easy in a matter of 2-3 days with no change in diet). I’m not sure, but I think I remember World or Bushy mentioning something about the leaner you are on cycle the less estrogen-related side effects.
Actually, I was just talking to 5.0 the other day where I was contemplating running a cycle where I put my focus on the weightlifting instead of grappling/judo, just to see how my body would respond to 5-6 days under the bar. It might be interesting to compare the differences.
[quote]World1187 wrote:
Well with the subject of tren and at least 3 members I know of that are running it, I have a few questions.
How are you sleep patterns? Do they depend on what you did that day or are they independent of your activity?
[/quote]
Strangely, I’m sleeping better than ever. I fall right asleep and wake up about an hour earlier than usual feeling refreshed.
Parched all the time. I find myself sometimes having to stop in the middle of whatever I am doing at work sometime (even right in the middle of teaching) and run to the other room to get my gallon jug and chug a huge amount of it.
Not quite sure if you mean appetite or diet here.
My diet is actually cleaner and lower calorie than usual, yet I am gaining lbs day after day. Very wild. Appetite is still fine, no real change there so far.
I’m only less than 2 full weeks in, but I noticed an almost immediate change in the quality of my mass. I tightened and hardened up, my muscles became full and shapely, and the vascularity has started coming back into my forearms and chest. I am loving this stuff. Only negative, as I’ve mentioned, has been some anxiety/irritability, but that was far worse the first week than it is this week.
So could you attribute your anxiety/irritability to any specific reason, other than just being on tren?
What I am asking is do you think the tren is causing some sort of side effect that then causes irritability? Or is the irritability directly caused by the tren?
[quote]World1187 wrote:
So could you attribute your anxiety/irritability to any specific reason, other than just being on tren?
What I am asking is do you think the tren is causing some sort of side effect that then causes irritability? Or is the irritability directly caused by the tren?
World[/quote]
Tren has a tendency to increase blood pressure. I don’t feel any real irritability, just the anxiety associated with higher blood pressure.
Probably doesn’t help much. I know my wife is begging me to get back on a cycle because I am much more calm when I am on.
[quote]World1187 wrote:
So could you attribute your anxiety/irritability to any specific reason, other than just being on tren?
What I am asking is do you think the tren is causing some sort of side effect that then causes irritability? Or is the irritability directly caused by the tren?
World[/quote]
Right now my business is exploding, very fast growth that my wife and I can barely stay on top of. So, are there outside stimuli that are affecting my mood? You’d better believe it.
That said, this is more a physical feeling. Like my senses are tuned up too high, and everything affects me more than it normally would, especially sound. I get really irritated by certain idiocies on the radio when my wife is listening and I have a lot less patience with the kids I teach when they scream.
[quote]World1187 wrote:
Well with the subject of tren and at least 3 members I know of that are running it, I have a few questions.
How are you sleep patterns? Do they depend on what you did that day or are they independent of your activity?
How thirsty do you seem to be?
Diet improved or lessened?
What has been your single favorite improvement thus far that you would attribute to the tren?
Lastly, have you had insanely vivid dreams like I have and Cortes seems to be experiencing?
World[/quote]
My sleep was much better after the first week, but I had to sleep on top of the covers for the 8 weeks I ran the tren, I was like a furnace. I did notice that I had very poor sleep if I didn’t workout that day.
Very thirsty. 2 gallons of water a day didn’t feel like enough. I’d get up in the middle of the night and have to drink a couple cups of water I was so thirsty (in hindsight, I should’ve had a protein shake).
My diet stayed the same, but from the improvements I noticed visually I’d guess that my body was using the food more efficiently. Near the end of the 8 weeks my appetite was reduced, I had to force down the food so I know I wasn’t getting enough of it.
X-men strength. And the lean muscle gain while losing fat. I felt and looked like a comic-book superhero (except for the spandex outfit, I’m still working on that, lol…). My twelve year old son and his friends said I looked like Wolverine, I thought that was pretty cool.
Yes. Virtual-reality dreams, the kind that you can’t distinguish between real life until you wake up.
Wow, thanks guys for all the great posts about progress, sides, pros and cons. The thread is going great and I really appreciate all the feedback.
The strength and hardness/vascularity are really sounding good. It’s just more impressive with so many chiming in at the same time with real positive testimony to the tren effects.
Sounds like the night sweats may be adjusted a bit by dosage possibly, and nobody has had any estro issues either to date, knock on wood…
Can’t wait to check it out myself and contribute something to the thread also. I’ve decided that I’m going to be running my primo as a kickstart period. Not going to wait till the class II’s are in full effect, rather have the extra boost from the onset, and then run it again towards the end or transitioning into my pct. I just see the benefits of the kick outweighing any class I/II synergy I might get, since once the test/tren is hitting, who needs any “extra”?? You know what I mean? The stuff is a can of “whoop ass” already on it’s own, so that’s my reasoning for the choice of onset, vs. three weeks in with enan esters.
So, I guess I'll have a unique cycle to post about too guys.
Again, very, very impressed with the great posting and seriousness of all involved with this thread.
These two compounds, test/tren, are truly in my opinion, probably the two most powerful compounds we have in the arsenal for recomposition of a persons physique. Without getting into slin/GH, etc. For AAS purposes.
I mean when you get down to using just these two, you can pretty much do anything whether it’s a bulk or cut, and produce fantastic gains in either choice.
That’s another reason I’m just using the primo as a jump. Like I said, there is so much quality “bang for the buck” with just those two, that it just makes better sense to get the kickstart into the main cycle of these fabulous two “partners” than to “improve” the cycle after the class II’s kick in. Having said that, of course one could add to the quality by tweaking in another compound or two, but when you get down to it, there’s just so much you can accomplish with test/tren, that in my humble opinion, you’re better set to give yourself a kick, and just get on with it.
and eager). My goal is to get lean and stay lean coming off the cycle, and keeping a six pack afterwards. Obviously I’ve never had to figure out a situation like this before :). I think I’m going to be limiting carbs and making most of my diet pro/fat when coming off. Not a cut, just trying to maintain weight with low carbs. Hopefully this will help me keep more definition. I’ll figure something for cortisol out when I can take more time to read around.