[quote]hedo wrote:
I do not teach the 235 course. My training is for pistol and rifle and a couple of other esoteric disciplines such as reloading. It’s not my primary way of making a living. Beyond that most of my instruction is in the CQ use of concealed firearms and practical defensive pistol techniques. I teach students to survive and prevail, not to take a beating or possibly be killed in a confrontation. That being said avoidance is the first thing I teach for a civilian. However avoidance to the point of absurdity isn’t wise or prudent and long checklists of what one should or shouldn’t do is training to be killed. The law doesn’t require someone to stay in their home or go over the top to avoid a confrontation. That’s a feeling you have and a bias that you claim you don’t have. Why would someone corner themselves in a store when being pursued by a gang. Tactically it’s a losing proposition. I’m sure if a cop was nearby,the cop would have been involved. I didn’t see or hear of a Philly PD officer coming forward to say he saw them and the police took a few minutes to arrive…they weren’t in the area.
Regarding a sense of empowerment by carrying a gun, that’s just wrong. Most folks feel a sense of responsibility and look for an opportunity not to use it. In NJ where handguns and permits are highly restricted to only the police and well connected individuals, that may be the case, but in PA the right to bear arms is guaranteed to all non felons. I’ve never met someone who felt emboldened by carrying a gun that I’m aware of. I know a lot who felt secure knowing they could defend themselves if attacked. A concealed weapon is an equalizer against six unarmed bullies with ass kicking on their minds.
As to my comments about Philly being absolutely over the top with regard to gun charges one only needs to look at the public statements by the politicians and police officers as well as the DA. It’s fairly common knowledge among those who carry a gun in PA and among those who teach them to do it properly. Even Philly has doubts about this case. The shooter is free on a $20K bond for crying out loud. If they thouhgt they could get him for murder the bail should be much higher. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be investigated or the shooter questioned but based on experience the more rural DA’s don’t arrest people for defending themselves BEFORE the investigation is completed. Philly does. So does NJ. The man has a permit from VA., it reciprocal with PA. Philly charges him with illegal carry of a weapon w/o a permit, yet the man has a permit on him and it’s easily verified by a call to the VA State PD. Why do that? Pure harassment nothing more. The DA in Bucks and Montgomery Co’s don’t do that, I’ve never seen it and I look at all of the CCW shootings in PA in passing. The NRA and some PA organizations publish summaries of them every month.
Sorry you think I’m biased but I’m not. I’m practical and I can’t base my safety on a feeling or a hope that my attacker is going to be benevolent to me and merely beat the crap out of me, instead of killing me because I chose to use a public street. Sometimes bad guys get shot for doing bad things to the wrong person. I’m OK with that too. As to me being a dangerous instructor, that’s a matter of opinion. I ,and those I know ,teach what works, not what might work, maybe, if your lucky. Not a choice for everyone and some aren’t capable of making it. Don’t carry a gun if you aren’t prepared to use it and do so properly. I’ve had wives and girlfriends of policeman and sheriff’s take classes with me. I’ve caught competition techniques to plenty of policeman. Nobody has accused me of being a gunslinger looking for a fight or a careless instructor. Some people are comfortable around guns, others have a fear of them.
Don’t know what remains to be said. Keep an eye on the case and I will too. Let’s see how it turns out.
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There’s a tone to this that has become a little personal, and if I’m at all responsible for that I apologize. However, you are missing that I am ultimately quite neutral on this case. Your bias however is clear. Hell, you’re even painting me with some NJ brush, and NJ does not color my perception of this case one iota. Not one bit. Please stop referencing it.
The sense of empowerment trap is not something I made up. It’s a documented fact, and not my opinion. There are those that will fail to avoid situations they normally would if they were not armed. I did not make this up.
Avoidance to the point of absurdity? Training to be killed? That sir is absurd and you’re just being hysterical. I don’t want to engage in a pissing contest with you, but your points beg a retort:
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“Corner yourself in a store”? Are you serious? Really? That’s just ludricous. Are you at all familiar with this area? In any way shape or form? This was not some “gang” as you call it (you are now no better than the media). Both actors were part of a group. Ung was not alone with his GF. Walking directly to a populated area or business is “over the top” to avoid a confrontation you allegedly want no part of? We will do not know who started the hostilities, who was drunk, who said what. Admit that much at least.
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No Philly PD nearby? Again, I must ask, are you familiar with this area? They are all over down there this time of the night. This is not open to dispute. It’s a simple fact.
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Philly has a gun problem. It naturally shapes the response by the Department and the politicians. Politics. Nothing more. He’s free on 10% of $200,000 by the way. He’s a law student at a city U. He’s stable. He has representation. And the kid did not die. It’s not a murder case…yet. Right now, it’s an Aggravated Assault case basically, and 200k bail is plenty high. Philly PD may have quirks and biases as to how they treat gun cases, but this kid still gets arrested in the other counties.
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“Bad guy”? Again, you’re as guility as the media in your bias. Try local drunken frat meathead maybe spoiling for a fight. That would probably be fair? “Bad guy” conjures up images of some armed robber or rapist. Just because I’m a tad uncomfortable with the shooting of an unarmed frat boy, does not mean I am at all unfamiliar with “what works” or what is reasonable. You teach. I do the job. Avoidance works. And no one dies. I know the area and apparently you don’t. And if you did know the area and you still think this kid could not avoid a beating with a bit of avoidance/humility, you’ve got to reexamine your biases.
An unarmed man was shot. That you can believe without the facts that it was so “clean” based on 10 seconds of video, knowing none of the facts that lead up to that 10 seconds, is indeed alarming. No offense. I didn’t call you dangerous, but I’m troubled by your cocksure conclusions based on 10 seconds of video. If it’s not biased (it is and it’s apparent) then it’s irresponsible.
About the only thing that is clear from that video is that once he drew his gun, he had no choice. What is not clear is whether drawing that gun was reasonable.
My partner on the security end was responsible (head of the security detail) for the professional and personal protection of one of our countries most famous dignitaries, as well as 20 years of past related military experience and most recently, tours in Iraq for the State Dept. protecting dignitaries, foreign and domestic.