why would high bar be better than low for sports? at least be able to explain it, if you can’t then don’t blindly accept what people tell you. I honestly don’t think its a huge deal… some like low bar some prefer high… a better contrast would be to compare front vs. back squat in relation to carryover to athletics.
Well high bar uses your quads a lot more then low bar does. And from my football experience it seems that my quads are the most used muscle when I play.
I should state this…
I AM ON THE INTERNET. I AM NOT A PT. I CAN ONLY TELL YOU A BASIC STRETCHING ROUTINE THAT MAY HELP YOU. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOUR BODY. IT MAY MAKE THINGS WORSE IF YOU DO IT WRONG, OR IT IS NOT ‘THE RIGHT THING.’ ALWAYS USE CAUTION WITH INJURIES. GET CLEARED BY A DR. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
I also want to say this 5/3/1 is awesome. You will be hard pressed to tell me otherwise. I think your problems are less programming, and more other things that we will address. Your program will be goal specific. You will have to pick something to focus on. You cannot reasonably expect to chase everything at once.
As for my mentality on training, “better” is subjective. What works for some will not work for you. What works for most will probably have carryover.
My idea here is that I am going to basically give you orders for the first 3 months. At 3 months, we will re-evaluate and you will make one or two choices. Over time, I am going to teach you how to think critically and approach your training with a more scientific mind. At the end, hopefully, programs are not the big focus, and concepts will be. The only way to learn this is to start, as others have mentioned, from the ground up with a basic split to give you real experience.
This means that we are going to start by fixing you up, making sure you are not still hurt, working on form, and taking weight off the bar for the sake of making more progress in the long run. YOU WILL NEVER GET WEAKER FROM BEING PATIENT, LEARNING TO LISTEN TO YOUR BODY, AND USING ACCEPTABLE FORM THAT DOES NOT PUT YOU AT RISK ON INJURY.
This is precisely why I offered to do this for a long time. You have to rethink everything your doing, and if you don’t have a good reason for it then it needs to be replaced with something more important or left off altogether based on your needs.
[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
Well high bar uses your quads a lot more then low bar does. And from my football experience it seems that my quads are the most used muscle when I play. [/quote]
Then focus on front squats, rather than worrying about high vs. low bar. See, rarely is it ever all that complicated.
[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
Well high bar uses your quads a lot more then low bar does. And from my football experience it seems that my quads are the most used muscle when I play. [/quote]
mmmm… This seems dubious. What position do you play?
Defensive end and sometimes tight end. That’s why I’m trying to get my bodyweight to 185 lbs but mostly muscle I don’t wait to gain too much fat. I’ve already gained 20 lbs since last football season but I want to gain another 15 when I play jv next year. I’ll be a sophomore next year. They might put me in some of the varsity games also.
[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
Defensive end and sometimes tight end. That’s why I’m trying to get my bodyweight to 185 lbs but mostly muscle I don’t wait to gain too much fat. I’ve already gained 20 lbs since last football season but I want to gain another 15 when I play jv next year. I’ll be a sophomore next year. They might put me in some of the varsity games also. [/quote]
Mass is good, but don’t be so worried about gaining mass that it comes at the expense of athleticism. There were several times that I was moved to DE from Safety, and even though I was undersized, got into the backfield. Definitely keep eating and lifting to put on some mass but keep your conditioning up. You want to make sure you can translate that new found size and strength into being a more formidable and athletic opponent.
It seems like the Lilliebridge’s use a high bar for squatting I guess that why they are so upright when they squat.
I played defensive end and tight end in high school too. I wouldn’t worry about high vs. low bar squatting. Just squat, front squat, and definitely i would hit some cleans, some more power type movements. Defensive end is a tough position, speed and power are very important.
Should I do a bodybuilding type routine for my upper body to add some size to it, because my upper body is really small.
[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
Should I do a bodybuilding type routine for my upper body to add some size to it, because my upper body is really small.[/quote]
Size will come from eating, and simply growing up. You’ll benefit more athletically from a strength training program, particularly on compound movements. Accessory movements, if you do them, can be trained more like a bodybuilder.
So If I did 5x5 for the first exercise which is a compound movement, then how many accessory movements should I do after that?
I’ll leave the specifics up to Trivium, but for upper body, 3-4 is generally sufficient. My accessory work, when I do it, usually includes rows or pullups for about 5 sets of 10, followed by a bicep/tricep superset (anywhere from 6-20 reps per set), and 3 or 4 high rep face pull sets. None of that is set in stone for me though. If I’m bench pressing, for example, I may do my bench work, get a few sets of dumbbell rows in, and call it a day. Simple works best for me.
Exactly. Train the big movements and eat huge. Following a bodybuilding mentality for football is definitely not optimal. think about what you do as a defensive end. You need to be explosive off the snap over and over. front squat, clean, jerk, etc… compound movements and to build armor just eat huge. You can get huge and strong this way for sure believe that. You might not be competing on stage but you’ll be putting people on their backs.
[quote]MikeRich928 wrote:
Exactly. Train the big movements and eat huge. Following a bodybuilding mentality for football is definitely not optimal. think about what you do as a defensive end. You need to be explosive off the snap over and over. front squat, clean, jerk, etc… compound movements and to build armor just eat huge. You can get huge and strong this way for sure believe that. You might not be competing on stage but you’ll be putting people on their backs. [/quote]
This reminds me of what Dan John teaches. OP, go to the author section of the articles, and read everything Dan John has written.
Ya not gonna lie, I love Dan John lol. I got really into his articles, books and stuff for a while. so now I steal his terminology like “armor building.” He has a book called “never let go” which is pretty awesome too, worth reading as a young football player no doubt. Every time i read his stuff I wanna slap myself for not front squatting enough and not being stronger.
What do you guys think about Mike Rashid and CT Fletcher’s Philosophy of overtraining?
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]dzirkelb wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
I was using 85’s and yes I do need coaching because 5/3/1 isn’t really getting me anywhere.[/quote]
… a couple things. I didn’t mean you need coaching for programming needs. You need coaching on your form. 5/3/1 isn’t ‘dangerous’ by any means. Wendler came up with the program as a means to come back from injury. Which means, if anything, it’s one of the more reliably safe programs in existence.
Beyond this though, what do farmers walks have to do with the basics of 5/3/1? If you were running 5/3/1, then the farmers walks would have been implemented as assistance work. Assistance work should NEVER result in injury. It should be done using weights that essentially can’t hurt you.
Have you read the actual 5/3/1 manual? If that’s indeed the program you are running, you need to learn what is and what isn’t essential to the program. Don’t rely on internet forums for this information. Get it straight from Wendler.[/quote]
I’d have to disagree with the dangerous part, just because I have experience with it, and I’ll tell you why I disagree.
5/3/1 is dangerous to the inexperienced lifter, or the beginner, or someone with not proper form (which is all the above). I kept injurying myself on deadlift day for months upon months. I had lower back issues for 10 years, got it fixed, started the program, kept hurting my back again, blamed it on my back…wrong!
What I would do is try to get that last rep, or that last 2 reps, to break a PR, which is what 5/3/1 is all about. It felt awesome to pull, say, 385 for 8 one week, then 395 for 9 the next. You could see the progress, get really stoked for that final lit, etc.
problem is, in order to push out those last couple reps the form falls to just absolute shit. Notice, this is for inexperienced lifters, which I considered myself at the time (and still do, I can only pull around 5, squat around 5, bench around 330. But, more importantly, I’ve only been doing this for about 8 months. After 2 years, I’ll consider myself experienced).
So, I always cringe when I see newbies doing 5/3/1, because man, it works great, but the nature o the workout is pushing yourself past what you did last week, and for me at least, that meant failing on form.
Which is all the reason why the OP needs coaching on form, not program, maybe not even food, just form work. You may think your form is good, but it’s probably not. I know mine still needs work, but I haven’t been injured in 5 months, and all I see is gains!
[/quote]
from the 5/3/1 manual: “I hesitate to tell anyone to do anything to failure, because thatâ??s not what Iâ??m after. I wouldnâ??t prescribe this.”…“On the last set, however, youâ??ll have to reach further and grind it out â?? not to failure so youâ??re dead and canâ??t train the rest of the week, but it should take some life out of you.”
It sounds like you need to re-read the program if you believe that doing sets to the point of absolute shit form is what 5/3/1 is all about. Wendler states that rep PR’s are a goal, not a necessity. The problem here is not the program, it’s the implementation of shitty form that violates the spirit of the program. Pretty huge difference.[/quote]
That’s kind of exactly my point, bad execution of a program, couple that with bad form on later sets = disaster.
[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
What do you guys think about Mike Rashid and CT Fletcher’s Philosophy of overtraining? [/quote]
I don’t think you have to worry about overtraining right now.
[quote]dzirkelb wrote:
That’s kind of exactly my point, bad execution of a program, couple that with bad form on later sets = disaster.
[/quote]
I feel as though bad execution of any program combined with bad form is going to have negative results. Do you agree with this, or feel that it is only 5/3/1 that has this issue?