[quote]admbaum wrote:
The instrument does not make the musician.[/quote]
Very true. An old friend of mine can make a Cort strat scream like a banshee, where as I can sound bad on even the finest of instruments.
[quote]bcingu wrote:
[quote]Eric 2.0 wrote:
You’ve got the right idea getting a cheap guitar, why would you get an expensive guitar before you ear can tell the difference between it and a dirt cheap one? [/quote]
If you had ever played a <$150 guitar, then you would know the answer to that question. Cheap hardware = inferior playing experience. But have fun playing a guitar with shitty action and weak pickups that never stays in tune…if that’s your thing.
OP: I have to emphasize - don’t buy anything without playing it first. A $75 guitar will sound and feel like a $75 guitar.
Go to a shop and just play around. It’s difficult to recommend a specific guitar, because you’ll inevitably find one that just beckons to you.[/quote]
Thanks for reminding everyone why its a bad idea to make assumptions. I’ve been playing for over 10 years and own some relatively expensive guitars, and I started out on one that cost less than $100.
Anyone that says they can notice enough of a difference to justify the cost from the moment they pick up their first guitar is lying
My advice is to buy a cheap guitar and use it until you can tell the difference. Then go out and buy a good one. This way you’ll have a developed ear, and sense of what a guitar should (and shouldn’t) feel like, and so you will be able to tell which one you really want to invest in.
you don’t need to play an instrument anymore, you can create music on your computer instead
[quote]PimpBot5000 wrote:
What you need to get is the Geddy Lee Jazz Bass (pictured). That way you’ll be able to pull in mad chicks, just like Geddy Lee does.[/quote]
If I were to go Fender, the Marcus Miller model would be my choice.
But I’d like a Musicman Sterling or Modulus Flea bass.
[quote]Eric 2.0 wrote:
[quote]bcingu wrote:
[quote]Eric 2.0 wrote:
You’ve got the right idea getting a cheap guitar, why would you get an expensive guitar before you ear can tell the difference between it and a dirt cheap one? [/quote]
If you had ever played a <$150 guitar, then you would know the answer to that question. Cheap hardware = inferior playing experience. But have fun playing a guitar with shitty action and weak pickups that never stays in tune…if that’s your thing.
OP: I have to emphasize - don’t buy anything without playing it first. A $75 guitar will sound and feel like a $75 guitar.
Go to a shop and just play around. It’s difficult to recommend a specific guitar, because you’ll inevitably find one that just beckons to you.[/quote]
Thanks for reminding everyone why its a bad idea to make assumptions. I’ve been playing for over 10 years and own some relatively expensive guitars, and I started out on one that cost less than $100.
Anyone that says they can notice enough of a difference to justify the cost from the moment they pick up their first guitar is lying
My advice is to buy a cheap guitar and use it until you can tell the difference. Then go out and buy a good one. This way you’ll have a developed ear, and sense of what a guitar should (and shouldn’t) feel like, and so you will be able to tell which one you really want to invest in. [/quote]
Good advice. A cheap electric will usually have a high action as well (for those recommending he start on an acoustic guitar). Don’t by an acoustic if you want an electric, half of the fun stuff is only possible on an electric only anyway. Practice acoustic to get better at acoustic.
some inspiration:
[quote]PimpBot5000 wrote:
What you need to get is the Geddy Lee Jazz Bass (pictured). That way you’ll be able to pull in mad chicks, just like Geddy Lee does.[/quote]
P bass > Jazz bass
Wow, even more awesome insight!
I’ve talked some people into trading training for guitar lessons. haha
I should be set with an acoustic for now…still buying the electric to practice on too.
Please continue spewing knowledge all over you =)
Wow, even more awesome insight!
I’ve talked some people into trading training for guitar lessons. haha
I should be set with an acoustic for now…still buying the electric to practice on too.
Please continue spewing knowledge all over you =)
Guitar is my suggestion.
Many people seem to forget that the voice is also an instrument.
See what type of music you like and then go for it.
You got jazz, rock, etc
My personal favorite, and something I’ve pursued, is opera.
Some fun videos:
Good listening:
I’ve been playing guitar for 26 years now. If I had to do it all over again this is how I would do it:
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Buy as much guitar as you can afford. Electric. Fender mexican guitars are fine instruments. Epiphones are fine instruments. Ibanez, fine.
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Buy an amp with an awesome clean sound and add effects via foot pedals. “Everything in one” amps will only teach you to learn shitty tone. I still have my first amp-- a Fender Sidekick 10. I’ve gigged with it. Solid state, solid as a rock, beatiful clean tone.
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Do NOT start on an acoustic with high action. The ‘strength building’ is a fallacy. Guitar playing is about finesse, not powerlifting.
It is much more important to get your hand and fingers to work independently with precision. These motor movements must become learned by your brain. You don’t learn to sprint by running in pools. Think about tapping your fingers in succession on the table (pinky->ring->middle->index). Do it as fast as possible keeping your fingers as close to the table as possible, then do it with fingers ‘jumping’ as high as possible. The latter is not efficient at all and if you start with heavy strings and high action, your fingers and brain will imprint that way.
Starting with super high action will only ‘teach’ your hand to move between frets with high jumps. You want to stay as close to the fretboard as humanly possible.
- Learn as much by ear as possible. When I was a kid it was LP’s and cassettes. Listen, stop, rewind, play, listen, stop, rewind play. Today with digital you can even slow the shit down withoug pitch shift. Do it. EVERY.DAY.
4a. Learn to tune your fucking guitar by ear and not a tuner. If you can’t pick up a guitar and get it in relative tune, you’re useless.
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Learn to read music. I can read, but I can’t sight-read and play. I never learned because I have instant pitch recognition (not perfect pitch). I took lessons for a few months and my instructor would play the songs from the book and I could play it right back. Learn to read and play ASAP.
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Learn where every note is on the fretboard. For example find every “D” on every string and fret them as quickly as possible. Find every F#, etc.
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For every chord you learn, learn to play that chord in at least 3 different positions on the neck.
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Play EVERYTHING. If you’re sitting in front of the TV, you should be learning jingles and TV theme songs. N! B! C! (learn that and learn what the intervals are). I played along with the A-Team theme, Magnum PI, MASH, etc. when I was young.
8a. Do NOT write off country guitarists. You will master “Eruption” (Van Halen) long before you will ever master “Hot Wired” (Brent Mason) - see below or anything significant from Chet Atkins.
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You’re picking hand is not just for masturbating. You must devote as much time to picking hand practice as fretting hand.
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Practice.Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice… Practice…Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice… Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice… Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice… Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice… Practice… Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice… Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice… Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice… Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…
Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice…Practice. -
Practice.
That’s all I can think of for now. PM me if you want to.
[quote]bond james bond wrote:
Cheap guitars have cheap pick-ups, cheap hardware, frets etc. All this leads to a shit experiance.
[/quote]
Yes.
[quote] but if you get an acoustic first you will build up strength faster imo. If I can relate this to weight training…think of an acoustic as compound excersises and an electric as assistance ones.
[/quote]
No. That’s retarded.
See #3 in my last post.
I’m not about to get into a pissing contest with you Steely but we’re on opposite sides of the fence. My first stringed instrument was the cello which has unbelievable distance between the string and fingerboard in the 3rd and 4th position. Transitioning to guitar was a piece of cake given the amount of hand strength I had.
Also, FTR…Mexican Strats are junk and should never be recommended…ever, as well as epiphone solid bodies. My first was an epiphone. It was hanging on the wall collecting dust after 6 months of heavy use. I bought a Gibson that I still have and is still my #1 13 years later.
I know you know muscle. There are many benefits to training the muscles in your hands and forearms that will make you a better player.
1 interwebs if you know the first scale the d00d plays with the weights on.
And before we mention direction of resistance, theres also this:
[quote]admbaum wrote:
I’m not about to get into a pissing contest with you Steely but we’re on opposite sides of the fence. My first stringed instrument was the cello which has unbelievable distance between the string and fingerboard in the 3rd and 4th position. Transitioning to guitar was a piece of cake given the amount of hand strength I had.
Also, FTR…Mexican Strats are junk and should never be recommended…ever, as well as epiphone solid bodies. My first was an epiphone. It was hanging on the wall collecting dust after 6 months of heavy use. I bought a Gibson that I still have and is still my #1 13 years later.
I know you know muscle. There are many benefits to training the muscles in your hands and forearms that will make you a better player.
1 interwebs if you know the first scale the d00d plays with the weights on.
And before we mention direction of resistance, theres also this:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Planet-Waves-Varigrip-Hand-Exerciser-105291835-i1435423.gc[/quote]
A harmonic minor?
I can see how some variation to normal playing might help, but the weights seem a bit silly. I’m going to have to go with the functional fitness crowd here and say that you are grooving motor patterns, why fuck with those by using weights?
I agree with Steely - speed and economy of movement is much more important than finger strength (your fingers should be plenty strong from lifting anyway, just got to learn to apply that on the guitar).
[quote]admbaum wrote:
I’m not about to get into a pissing contest with you Steely but we’re on opposite sides of the fence. My first stringed instrument was the cello which has unbelievable distance between the string and fingerboard in the 3rd and 4th position. Transitioning to guitar was a piece of cake given the amount of hand strength I had.
[/quote]
You’re arguing something completely different here. It’s a different instrument and transitioning to ANY other stringed instrument is going to be fairly easy. When I was giving lessons, the folks who played piano transitioned much faster than pure beginners.
My first guitar was a piece of shit I bought for $90 on clearance. It made most acoustic guitars feel like they were electrics. It sucked. I would have progressed faster if I had a more reasonable guitar. My kids have a little acoustic (kids scale). It’s nearly impossible for them to play but they can get going much faster on my electrics.
Give someone an acoustic and someone an electric and see who progresses faster. Something as simple as full step bends are nearly impossible on acoustics and something (IMO) should be taught right from the beginning. You can clearly see the frustration on students faces trying to get them to bend acoustic strings.
Learning on an acoustic is fine, but the argument about hand strength is ridiculous. Go use Captains of Crush gripper if you want strong hands. The important thing is to learn chords, scales, and fretboard efficiency.
For beginning soccer players, you don’t prioritize playing in a mud field with a medicine ball because ‘leg strength’ is important.
People have a tendency to complicate EVERYTHING. Just look at the posts in “Bodybuilding” and how little progress happens in there.
Don’t over think it-- adequate guitar for the style(s) you want to play. Practice ears, scales, chords, picking, accuracy.
Don’t over think “hand strength”. Jesus Christ.
[quote]
Also, FTR…Mexican Strats are junk and should never be recommended…ever, as well as epiphone solid bodies.[/quote]
Whatever. Again, they are more than adequate for beginners. I have one as one of my backups and it plays and sounds fine. Walk into a guitar center, pick up any premium brand between 300-500 dollars and you’ll have a great instrument to learn on that will last for years.
Nobody needs a Les Paul to learn on. Having said that, if you have 1400 bucks laying around to shit away, buy the Les Paul 
My style of teaching is to get the students playing the songs they want to play right away. If someone wants to learn metal or electric blues or electric country licks, they should learn those songs on electric instruments learning the songs they love. The vampire won’t be playing those santana licks convincingly for a long, long time starting with an acoustic with high action. Fuck, he’ll have the strongest godddamn guitar hands on his block though. His fapping pleasure will increase by magnitudes.
Try to learn Eddie Van Halen, Dimebag Darryl, or Stevie Ray Vaughan licks on an acoustic with high action is a great way to ensure you won’t be playing guitar very long.
Want to learn the Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan catalog? Start on an acoustic.
Well at least I got one thing right lol.
To get your hand used to playing, I like to recommend “1 4 3 4”. In this case the numbers refer to your fingers (1=pointer, 4=pinky). Do this and you will see the pinky side of your hand get a noticeable pump.
You start on the high e string first fret, and play 1 4 3 4, four times. Then do the same on the b string first fret, then g, and so on.
After you do this on the low E, you move over one fret and start with the low E second fret, and work your way towards the high E.
Do this up and down the neck, until you get to the 12th fret, then do the same thing moving back toward the first fret. Do this without stopping, and you will see and feel the muscle on the pinky side of your hand getting pumped.
wow, steelyd
you just had roid rage, brah!!!
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
My first guitar was a piece of shit I bought for $90 on clearance. It made most acoustic guitars feel like they were electrics. It sucked. I would have progressed faster if I had a more reasonable guitar. My kids have a little acoustic (kids scale). It’s nearly impossible for them to play but they can get going much faster on my electrics.
Give someone an acoustic and someone an electric and see who progresses faster. Something as simple as full step bends are nearly impossible on acoustics and something (IMO) should be taught right from the beginning. You can clearly see the frustration on students faces trying to get them to bend acoustic strings.
Learning on an acoustic is fine, but the argument about hand strength is ridiculous. Go use Captains of Crush gripper if you want strong hands. The important thing is to learn chords, scales, and fretboard efficiency.
Don’t over think “hand strength”. Jesus Christ.
Whatever. Again, they are more than adequate for beginners. I have one as one of my backups and it plays and sounds fine. Walk into a guitar center, pick up any premium brand between 300-500 dollars and you’ll have a great instrument to learn on that will last for years.
Nobody needs a Les Paul to learn on. Having said that, if you have 1400 bucks laying around to shit away, buy the Les Paul
My style of teaching is to get the students playing the songs they want to play right away. If someone wants to learn metal or electric blues or electric country licks, they should learn those songs on electric instruments learning the songs they love. The vampire won’t be playing those santana licks convincingly for a long, long time starting with an acoustic with high action. Fuck, he’ll have the strongest godddamn guitar hands on his block though. His fapping pleasure will increase by magnitudes.
Try to learn Eddie Van Halen, Dimebag Darryl, or Stevie Ray Vaughan licks on an acoustic with high action is a great way to ensure you won’t be playing guitar very long.
Want to learn the Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan catalog? Start on an acoustic.[/quote]
If you were teaching someone how to squat, who has never worked out before, would you immediately put a bar across their back or get them to do proper bodyweight squats? Music, like training, works in stages. If you dont make people understand that from the beginning, you have no business teaching people music.
I’m glad you mentioned SRV in this discussion. Stevie, a guy who played a frankensteined AMERICAN Strat with I dont know, 13ga strings on his electric and sometimes even 18-74. “Thick as barbedwire”. Also a guy who first learned on an acoustic, a sears western. Also learned to play using roots blues. He doesnt have strong hands at all:
Dont know about you but I heard at least 1 half step and a buncha quarter step bends in there. I have a hard enough time playing that on a 6-string. Then we have this:
Dont even wanna try to count those bends but I did hear and see at least 1-full step bend on the first fret. That doesnt take a fair amount of hand strength. Especially to do that on 13ga strings.
Moral of the story:
If being able to play like he did in the first video makes me better at attempting to play the song in the second, I think I would try learning on the acoustic first.
In fact, nearly every song I learn to play, I learn on a acoustic first so I can really spank it when I play it on the electric. But sure, pick up an electric, learn to play power chords and become a guitar legend like kurt cobain. That way you can be a guitar player and not a musician.
pfft…expecting musicianship in music…what was I thinking?
LOL @ SRV for an example as a beginner. He’s Stevie Fucking Ray Vaughan.
Yes, take a beginner lifter and put them under 350 lbs and tell them to press it. That’s the ticket. That’s what you do when you give a rank beginner an acoustic with high action and try to have them play.
Using yourself as an example for beginners is completely missing the point if you’re an experienced player.
Assuming one will only learn ‘power chords’ on an electric guitar is just slightly more retarded than full retard. Assuming that by learning real songs right off the bat doesn’t mean you don’t get taught theory, modality, scales, etc, is also pretty retarded.
Another e-fucking warrior.