Origins (Atheist view)

Off Topic
41

Jeep,
For the near death experiences, there are explanations depending on the trauma. Even if it is near death in your sleep from lack of oxygen, that is a trauma.

A way to word this? It’s all in your head. Yep, the brain does those near death experiences. The light and seeing dead relatives, things like that are all stored memories or “potential memories” (things you have thought of that you would have liked to have seen, aka, the day you thought how nice it would have been had dead grandma been around to see it. Your brain stores that and can recall it). Actually the light is from the synaptic firing in the occipital lobe.

These flashbacks are caused by things from CNS shock to brain hemmoraging to lack of oxygen.  It's been a few years since I studied that, so it's a little fuzzy.  Anyone care to add more?
42

. I never really felt a need for a god but some people do and I respect that. It’s just something ingrained in a lot of people to believe in a higher power, to hope. Maybe it’s their weakness. maybe it’s their strength.

Same thing here. As long as they leave my freedom and similar rights intact in the process, I have no problem.

43

My parents sent me to a Lutheran school in my elementary years. Not because they were religious, but they believed it provided a more structured environment for education. As a result I became in those years very religified and stood firm in my religious beliefs.

I can remember in my teen years how somethings concerning the bible and religion started to not make sense to me.It had nothing to do with anger, It was just thinking about the issues, like the theory of evolution which may not be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, but to me has more credence then the mythology of the Bible.

I will state again that as an agnostic, I don’t claim to have the answers and when I die, I will either go on to whatever is next or cease to exist, or maybe the religious ones or right and I will burn in hell, but to be honest I am really not afraid of that last option!

My Grandmother on my dads side was a very devout catholic three of her sisters were nuns, but the one thing I loved about my Grandma was, I never saw her preach to anyone she lived her religion through her actions not words!

44

"second law of thermodynamics my friend. It had to have a beginning. "

Uh, Marauder…
You didnt say anything. You pointed out that energy tends to decrease in density, increase in entropy, whatever. But energy can neither be created nor destroyed - the FIRST law of thermo my friend! The universe probably always was and always will be, but just keeps changing forms.

BullGrap

45

“I will state again that as an agnostic, I don’t claim to have the answers and when I die…”

Elk,
I’m curious to see what you think of my previous comments on agnostics…a few posts up.

46

I believe that when someone experiences a near death experience, the effact the physical body has on our spiritual essence is greatly reduced for a very short time period. At this point the spirit may pass knowledge of a higher plane of existance, back to the person. Of course on higher planes of existance, thought plays a large role in reality so a persons last few thoughts could manifest themselves into a very real like daydream experience.

Similar experiences can be had by deep meditation or other relaxation techniques, I have personally experienced this through meditation. One time I sat on the floor and went into a meditation. I was contemplating human flight, in an unpowerd sense and suddenly I felt myself lifting off the floor, I sustained this very real feeling of levetation for about 20 minutes before I opened my eyes and lo and behold, I was still sitting on the ground. All of my other senses told me I was actually levetating, I felt my inner ear adjust to my ascent, I felt slight air currents blowing past my skin, the sensation of feeling the ground below me left. If I was blind I would have really believed myself to have levitated.

47

NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES

What’s interesting is that NDE’s (ie walking toward the light) can be replicated using certain anesthetics or neurotransmitter analogs. It’s thought to be for neural protection during cerebral hypoxia.
Also from what I’ve read, NDE’s are specific to the culture to which the person belongs.

Sadly, I have not critically evaluated what I’ve read, so this is merely reiteration.

48

I have a similar opinion about the origins than Vegita has.

I have noticed that thought history, mankind as labeled as “God” to anything that he does not understand. Starting from the beginnings with fire, water, thunder, sky, death, emotions, nature, reasoning, and now the universe, time, space, etc.

Once humankind is able to understand the universe, time and space, the same way we understand fire and thunder. We might be able to offer an explanation without the need to say that “God” created the universe. The same way we know how hurricanes and lighting its created. I don’t see it happening in our lifetime. It might take hundreds or thousands of years – but who knows.

In the meantime, amaze yourself to the wonders of the universe and how far we have come as humans.

My two cents.

49

Uh, Marauder…
You didnt say anything. You pointed out that energy tends to decrease in density, increase in entropy, whatever. But energy can neither be created nor destroyed - the FIRST law of thermo my friend! The universe probably always was and always will be, but just keeps changing forms.

BullGrap

so you believe that has existed forever exerting work and burning as a perpetual motion machine? it’s scientifically impossible. Yes, energy cannot be destroyed, but it can be transformed into pretty much useless forms.

and these two laws seem pretty concrete to me. it’s just so basic a law. such as, i can’t forsee them being wrong. in past history, people didn’t know why rain came down, so they said “god did it”. I dont think this is that type of situation.

a paragraph:
Although energy cannot be destroyed, it is of little use to anyone if it cannot make things happen. The second law of thermodynamics says all changes in energy decrease the amount of useful energy in the universe. In most cases, heat is the energy form with most entropy, so all energy tends to become heat.

50

Vegita, what do you base your intricate, phenomenal ideas on?

51

Vegita?

52

Our purpose here?
I never got that. It’s foolish to project the human need for things to have meaning onto something that isn’t created by anything sentient.
Of course if you DO believe the universe was created by some sort of deity it might make sense to ask “why?” but even so, there could be no reason at all.

Anyway, please don’t ask an atheist (that includes myself) to tell you the “purpose” of life. It’s the height of foolishness. If he believed there was a purpose he wouldn’t be a very good atheist.

/Jacob

53

keep in mind an Atheist can PROVE that God does not exsist… Agnostic does not know and thus does not care to ask the question.

someone said something about Chromosomes and their role in evolution or position… the idea of chromosome count was just a way of explaining a Jungian theory on the movment of energy from one level to the next… which left open a hole saying that the energy of this aspect of life will move up or down in unseen dimensions… the string theory talks about this… … just some fyi

54

The whole “god” concept just doesn’t make any sense.

55

Right on, rep9210. Why? is only good for finding out a human motive for something. If you realize that there is no premeditated “reason” for being alive, then the question why? makes no sense. I love how religious folks like to point out that god has a “plan” for everybody. And the “plan” involves us going to church at least once a week and dropping some cash into the collection boxes. Man, I’m in the wrong business!

56

Visible3, are you retarded?

You say there’s no association with chromosome counts and the complexity of beings… then post
Chromosome Count
Fern-512
Crayfish-200
Dog-78
Reptiles-48
Bat-32
Man-46

Uhh…duh?
Gee, if I didn’t know any better, I’d say that a plant has significantly more chromosomes than a human. That’s known as an inverse relationship.

57

I just find it interesting how many different scientific theories have come and gone over the years, and how constant the Bible has been. I’m a Christian, and I believe that God created the universe and everything in it. I can’t explain how God came to be, or any of the logistics involved in a lot of things that happen through out the Bible. That’s why it requires faith. Just so everyone knows, I didn’t grow up that way. I never really thought about it. The only time I ever stepped foot in a church, was during boot camp just to get away from the DI’s for a couple of hours. I was 22 when I converted to Christianity. As a Christian, I don’t think I am any better than anyone else. I’m a sinner. I do things everyday that I shouldn’t. Unfortunately, there are a lot of ‘professing’ Christians who look down at everyone else with this self-righteousness that makes me sick. That’s why for 22 years, I could care less about whether or not God existed.

I guess the best way to explain why I believe what I do, is because I gave it a fair shake. After about six weeks of going every Sunday to appease my uncle, it just clicked. It made sense. I started to realize that faith comes from believing first, then seeing, not vice versa. This is what I believe with all my heart, and I don’t feel as though I have to fully grasp it all to believe.

Just one morsel for further thought: Honestly, how many people think that there has to be more to existence than what this world has to offer? We as a human race have been wired for eternity. Most everyone has thought about wanting to live forever. Where does that come from? And with the state of the world as it is now, why is it that we want to live forever anyway? I know that for myself, it is because there is someplace better.

58

MaynardMeek, I’m curious as to how someone can prove that God doesn’t exist. I’m not trying to get into a nasty argument, I have just never heard anyone say that they could prove it.

Josh

59

I have to chuckle when people try to point to science as a means to know how the universe came to be. Science is little more reliable than our own physical senses, which can easily be deceived. Look at how many things we (humanity) thought we knew throughout our history, and how many of them were later disproven.

Why? Science is studied and interpreted by humans. In effect, it’s an extension of those same physical senses that decieve us so often. That chick you thought was hot from a distance but when she got up close you discovered she was fugly? Deception, committed by your senses.

I’m in no way saying science is full of crap; what I am saying is that it’s always changing as our knowledge of existence changes. “Improvement” is little more than a different perspective.

Referencing TC’s last Atomic Dog article, we’re still very much in the cave. We think we know what the Universe is like, but we really don’t have a clue on the grand scale of things.

As far as purpose and the purported “meaning of life”, the general trend is that people who worry about such things are not “happy people”. The end result is fear of the unknown for most that is so powerful it’s almost crippling to day-to-day living. Nobody wants to imagine life going on without them, in the most complete and definite sense of the phrase.

Not to get overly relativistic, but “meaning” is a societal construct. The ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans believed in many Gods. Most people today, especially in western culture, think polytheism is silly. What we think has no bearing on what the truth of the matter really is, except that it’s what we believe. Whether we believe in God, Gods, Goddesses, something else entirely or nothing at all means nothing to the Universe in terms of existence. It is what it is and maybe someday we’ll have a grasp on it, but not any time in the near future.

As far as God… either you have faith or you don’t. I do, but I can’t argue against someone who tells me that’s just because it was what I was taught since I was a kid. I tried an athiest approach for a few years and found that I was “just better off” with my faith than without it. Does that make me weak? I guess, I don’t really care. It’s what I found that works for me.

60

Right Side Up
I’m sorry it took awhile to get to your question, but to be honest, I had to think about it. I don’t know if one can or cannot know. Again from my perspective at this stage of my life I don’t know and I don’t know if I ever will, but thats okay!