Feedback From Meat

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
61

Hey meat,

I would love if you could check out my bench press and squat form:

Right now I have problems keeping my wrist completely straight, and it causes some pain.I have another question about leg drive, is there a difference between heels-planted-legs-wide vs only toes on the floor and feet are closer together in terms of bench performance, or is this simply a personal preference?

My back rounds once I go below parallel, I’ve tried extensively foam rolling my quads and hip flexors, and the “prying” movements from Pavel, but none of them seem to help. Should I simply just reduce my range of motion so my back doesn’t round?

Thank you so much!

Keep lifting and breaking those PRs :slight_smile:

62

[quote]Mondy wrote:
Hey meat,

I would love if you could check out my bench press and squat form:

Right now I have problems keeping my wrist completely straight, and it causes some pain.I have another question about leg drive, is there a difference between heels-planted-legs-wide vs only toes on the floor and feet are closer together in terms of bench performance, or is this simply a personal preference?

My back rounds once I go below parallel, I’ve tried extensively foam rolling my quads and hip flexors, and the “prying” movements from Pavel, but none of them seem to help. Should I simply just reduce my range of motion so my back doesn’t round?

Thank you so much!

Keep lifting and breaking those PRs :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I’ve got to say, that is one unsafe looking rack you’re using. Big points for inventiveness though :slight_smile:

Were all the aerobics people looking for their steps?

63

OK, Meat, hit me with your best shot:

I can’t believe how bad my lockouts were on this. I was pretty tired there at the end, but that part, at least, looks sloppy even to my eyes. No excuse on that, since that is typically the easiest part for me.

At any rate, thanks in advance.

64

[quote]marlboroman wrote:
the thread’s been a bit quiet , so lets talk floor presses. I did them for ME work , for the first time ever , yesterday . funny thing is , I have almost no soreness in the shoulders/triceps/chest , and a little bit more right between the shoulder blades ; but a whole bunch of hurt in abs/obliques ! WTF ?

I did them flat back , legs extended , paused as you suggested .

this was the lay-out…

135x10
155x5
175x5
185x5…5 RM
195x2
205x2…2 RM
210x1
190x3

with better spacing between sets the 5RM and 2RM are both beatable , and most likely the last single at 210 also .

any idea why the core seems to have gotten the most work ?

[/quote]

the core got all that work becuase you weren’t using your legs to stabilize yourself. the weight is still going to move around and typically you use your lower body to keep balance. without that your body will use other parts to attempt to stabilize.

also, you can’t really use soreness as an identifier of a good training session. soreness typically is caused by higher rep volumes with a moderate weight or from a movement that is totally different from something you’ve done before or in a long time. the floor press is similiar to other pressing movements but i’m sure your core hasn’t had to statically contract in that position before.

65

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
Mr. MM.

This is set 4 of 5 dead lifts form Sunday. I"m trying to pull back and stay on my heels but my hips still come up fast.[/quote]

i would lay off of pulling from the floor for awhile and concentrate on pulling from a deficit for a few weeks. this will force you to get your hips down and to use your legs more. otherwise, you are going to end up doing a good morning to start the weight. i would start with using 35lb plates and then add plates to stand on as well.

66

[quote]Mondy wrote:
Hey meat,

I would love if you could check out my bench press and squat form:

Right now I have problems keeping my wrist completely straight, and it causes some pain.I have another question about leg drive, is there a difference between heels-planted-legs-wide vs only toes on the floor and feet are closer together in terms of bench performance, or is this simply a personal preference?

My back rounds once I go below parallel, I’ve tried extensively foam rolling my quads and hip flexors, and the “prying” movements from Pavel, but none of them seem to help. Should I simply just reduce my range of motion so my back doesn’t round?

Thank you so much!

Keep lifting and breaking those PRs :slight_smile:
[/quote]

did you steal all of the aerobic riser from every gym in your area??:slight_smile: i bet there are a ton of soccer moms at your gym that are very pissed.

okay… the bench. when you grip the bar, you want it to rest as close to the heel of your hand as possible. the further back it gets to your fingers the more it will cause your wrists to roll back. this also put you at a mechanical disadvantage during the lift. there are three solutions- get some wrist wraps to cast your wrist with, use a thumbless grip- a thumbless grip gives you more surface area to hold the bar on, or you can work on strengthening your wrist and concsciously keeping it on the heel.

as for foot position, that is an individual thing. from the looks of your setup you can get a lot tighter and a much bigger arch. i prefer getting my feet under me and back as close to my head as possible. this keeps me tight and gives me a bigger arch.

the squat- you have a high bar position which already puts the weight in front of you. your feet aren’t wide enough so your knees roll out over your toes, your elbows wing back as you drive out of the hole and your head isn’t back into the bar. all these things lead to a rounded lower back. so you need to fix these things.

besides these form issues you could also have somme ankle inflexibility. if the ankles are tight, that can also cause the lower back to round once you get into the bottom of a squat. after every squat and deadlift session i do some sort of calf raise where i let my heels drop as low as they will go and pause there on every rep. this, over time, will increase ankle ROM.

good luck.

67

[quote]sfp wrote:
OK, Meat, hit me with your best shot:

I can’t believe how bad my lockouts were on this. I was pretty tired there at the end, but that part, at least, looks sloppy even to my eyes. No excuse on that, since that is typically the easiest part for me.

At any rate, thanks in advance.[/quote]

those don’t look bad at all. BUT, you aren’t getting your hips through fast enough and you aren’t exploding off the floor. when done well, the deadlift should always accelerate once you crack it off the floor. this is especially true of rep sets.

also, i’m not a fan of touch and go sets on deadlifts. form always goes to shit as you get tired. in my opinion, touch and go should only be done by those that have their form figured out.

so here’s what you need to work on- 1. set up after every rep. 2. start doing speed work to increase explosiveness through your reps 2. do elevated deads set right at your knees to work getting the hips through explosively- also to achieve the hips through, do zercher squats off pins and pull throughs with the cable machine.

the key thing here is to remember that you should always move the bar as fast as you can on EVERY set- light and heavy. once you teach your body to lift fast, everything else is easy.

68

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
sfp wrote:
OK, Meat, hit me with your best shot:

I can’t believe how bad my lockouts were on this. I was pretty tired there at the end, but that part, at least, looks sloppy even to my eyes. No excuse on that, since that is typically the easiest part for me.

At any rate, thanks in advance.

those don’t look bad at all. BUT, you aren’t getting your hips through fast enough and you aren’t exploding off the floor. when done well, the deadlift should always accelerate once you crack it off the floor. this is especially true of rep sets.

also, i’m not a fan of touch and go sets on deadlifts. form always goes to shit as you get tired. in my opinion, touch and go should only be done by those that have their form figured out.

so here’s what you need to work on- 1. set up after every rep. 2. start doing speed work to increase explosiveness through your reps 2. do elevated deads set right at your knees to work getting the hips through explosively- also to achieve the hips through, do zercher squats off pins and pull throughs with the cable machine.

the key thing here is to remember that you should always move the bar as fast as you can on EVERY set- light and heavy. once you teach your body to lift fast, everything else is easy.

[/quote]

Thanks, Meat. Zerchers next Monday it is. I’m planning on throwing in rack pulls, too. And pull-throughs. I’m tired already!

69

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
marlboroman wrote:
the thread’s been a bit quiet , so lets talk floor presses. I did them for ME work , for the first time ever , yesterday . funny thing is , I have almost no soreness in the shoulders/triceps/chest , and a little bit more right between the shoulder blades ; but a whole bunch of hurt in abs/obliques ! WTF ?

I did them flat back , legs extended , paused as you suggested .

this was the lay-out…

135x10
155x5
175x5
185x5…5 RM
195x2
205x2…2 RM
210x1
190x3

with better spacing between sets the 5RM and 2RM are both beatable , and most likely the last single at 210 also .

any idea why the core seems to have gotten the most work ?

the core got all that work becuase you weren’t using your legs to stabilize yourself. the weight is still going to move around and typically you use your lower body to keep balance. without that your body will use other parts to attempt to stabilize.

also, you can’t really use soreness as an identifier of a good training session. soreness typically is caused by higher rep volumes with a moderate weight or from a movement that is totally different from something you’ve done before or in a long time. the floor press is similiar to other pressing movements but i’m sure your core hasn’t had to statically contract in that position before. [/quote]

that makes sense

thanks again

70

Sir Meat,

If you would like a good laugh, please review my deadlift, squat, and bench videos (in that order) on my profile at http://www.T-Nation.com/myTNation.do?id=193358.

I have some joint issues that limit range of motion in one knee and one elbow. Because of this, I can’t squat to parallel, and I usually deadlift from stands that put the bar 3" higher than if the 45# platees were resting on the floor. I can deadlift off of the floor.

Because I can’t squat to depth, it wouldn’t make any sense to enter a powerlifting meet. My focus is on the health benefits of lifting, strength, and hypertrophy. So, I want to get the most out of the exercises, with the least danger of injury.

I recently introduced the chair as a depth indicator in the squat. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t squatting even that low before. That extra 2-3" made a big difference. It put more stress on the inner thigh muscles, and I managed to pull my left. So, I’m going to have to really back off for a while until it heals.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to review people’s lifts. I’ve read through the thread, and I think I’ve already learned quite a bit.

71

[quote]mathineer wrote:
Sir Meat,

If you would like a good laugh, please review my deadlift, squat, and bench videos (in that order) on my profile at http://www.T-Nation.com/myTNation.do?id=193358.

I have some joint issues that limit range of motion in one knee and one elbow. Because of this, I can’t squat to parallel, and I usually deadlift from stands that put the bar 3" higher than if the 45# platees were resting on the floor. I can deadlift off of the floor.

Because I can’t squat to depth, it wouldn’t make any sense to enter a powerlifting meet. My focus is on the health benefits of lifting, strength, and hypertrophy. So, I want to get the most out of the exercises, with the least danger of injury.

I recently introduced the chair as a depth indicator in the squat. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t squatting even that low before. That extra 2-3" made a big difference. It put more stress on the inner thigh muscles, and I managed to pull my left. So, I’m going to have to really back off for a while until it heals.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to review people’s lifts. I’ve read through the thread, and I think I’ve already learned quite a bit.[/quote]

i just watched your vids. is it the left elbow that you can’t straighten out? competing or not is an individual decision. you definitely don’t have to compete to enjoy lifting heavy shit.

i don’t want to overwhelm you with a ton of stuff so i’m going to give you the most glaring issues on the three lifts.

deadlift- you are making the most common mistake that i see with people deadlifting. you are bending over and picking the weight up. to make the deadlift efficient and safe, you need to use the most muscle groups as possible. not just the lower back. think of the deadlift as a pull then a push. the pull comes from pulling the weight into you to start the lift. that will put you back onto your hells and keeps the weight near you. a good way to practice this is to lift your toes and keep them up the entire time.

the push happens when the weight gets to your knees, you then push your hips forward to the bar.

so for now, work on getting back on your heels by lifting your toes. pull the weight back to you as you initiate the lift and then as it gets close to your knees push your hips to the bar instead of leaning back.

on the squats. i would suggest seting the pins at a comfortable level and then squat to them. you are putting a lot of stress on you knees by trying to sit on that little chair. a good squat that is powerful, using good leverage and protects the knees is one that has the lower leg as perpendicular to the floor as possible. watch how your lower legs turn out at an angle when you squat down. the way to fix this is to take a wider stance, point your toes out some, force your knees out and sit back more. i know that this seems like a lot but just pick one thing and work on it. once you think you have it, pick another.

on the bench, the lower arms should be perpendicular to the bar. you have much better leverage that way and it will protect the joints. i would take your grip out a little more to get that position. i would also suggest getting your feet back more so you can drive your heels into the ground as you perform the lift. i know you have some knee issues so just get them back as far as you can. leg drive is a big part of benching. leg drive is attained by driving the heels down throughout the entire lift. the best way to achieve this is to get your feet as far under you as you can. this also helps to maintain a good arch and stay tight.

agian, i know this is a lot to take in, but just pick one at a time. keep hitting me up with vids and questions.

72

I tried work on what you suggested, but I’m not sure I was doing them right. Here’s from my session today:

Sumo Deadlift - Only to knee
185 x 4
185 x 4
185 x 4 - 185 x 4 - Half Deads - YouTube
225 x 4
225 x 4
225 x 4 - 225 x 4 - Half Deads - YouTube

I backed off the weight to try to work on what you asked me to. I’m not sure I did a good job in general, but I didn’t really feel like I was pulling the bar into my shins enough. Maybe I was, but I’m just not sure.

73

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
i just watched your vids. is it the left elbow that you can’t straighten out? competing or not is an individual decision. you definitely don’t have to compete to enjoy lifting heavy shit. [/quote]

Yes, the left one. Phil recommended I keep it warm while lifting with a wrap.

[quote]
i don’t want to overwhelm you with a ton of stuff so i’m going to give you the most glaring issues on the three lifts.

deadlift- you are making the most common mistake that i see with people deadlifting. you are bending over and picking the weight up. to make the deadlift efficient and safe, you need to use the most muscle groups as possible. not just the lower back. think of the deadlift as a pull then a push. the pull comes from pulling the weight into you to start the lift. that will put you back onto your hells and keeps the weight near you. a good way to practice this is to lift your toes and keep them up the entire time.

the push happens when the weight gets to your knees, you then push your hips forward to the bar. [/quote]

I’d guessed most of this stuff from reading your responses to other folks, and from watching the video. I’ll work on getting my legs into it more at the bottom, and “makin’ sweet luv” to the bar at the top!

[quote]
on the squats. i would suggest seting the pins at a comfortable level and then squat to them. you are putting a lot of stress on you knees by trying to sit on that little chair. a good squat that is powerful, using good leverage and protects the knees is one that has the lower leg as perpendicular to the floor as possible. watch how your lower legs turn out at an angle when you squat down. the way to fix this is to take a wider stance, point your toes out some, force your knees out and sit back more. i know that this seems like a lot but just pick one thing and work on it. once you think you have it, pick another. [/quote]

Just to be clear - I wasn’t putting any weight on the chair, only just touching it as a depth indicator. Regarding the pins, do you mean deloading the weight onto the pins at the bottom, or just touching them? Either way, I’ll definitely work on widening the stance. Since I’ll be backing of in weight while the pulled muscle heals, I’ll have some time to really work on form before I get back the the heavier (for me) weight.

I’ll definitely widen my grip to make my arms perpendicular to the bar (at the bottom, right?). As for getting my legs under me, I can’t keep my feet flat and get them much further back. Should I go ahead and get up on my toes if that gets them back further?

Thanks very much for taking the time to critique my lifts. I’ll work on this stuff for 2-3 weeks and then take new videos.

74

Hi MM-

We appreciate that you are here, and are willing to help!

I’ll take a turn if you don’t mind :wink:

I’m not a bodybuilder or a power lfiter, but I take my lifting seriously. I have set a few goals for myself, and one of them is to get a 200lb+ squat by my 30th b-day in August…I had a shitty max attempt a couple weeks ago of 175, haha…I’m really trying to clean up form, and keep things in mind(elbows forward, chest up, etc) Trying to break the bad habit of letting my butt lead me out of the hole…

Here is my squat from this week:

Not perfect, but getting better! Any advice or tips on progression to make my goal happen? Aside from working on better form, that much I know…THANKS!!

75

Btw- whereabouts in VA are you?
Ever considered holding some real live training for fellow T-Nation’ers in the area?
That would be AWESOME!!

76

[quote]mom-in-MD wrote:
Hi MM-

We appreciate that you are here, and are willing to help!

I’ll take a turn if you don’t mind :wink:

I’m not a bodybuilder or a power lfiter, but I take my lifting seriously. I have set a few goals for myself, and one of them is to get a 200lb+ squat by my 30th b-day in August…I had a shitty max attempt a couple weeks ago of 175, haha…I’m really trying to clean up form, and keep things in mind(elbows forward, chest up, etc) Trying to break the bad habit of letting my butt lead me out of the hole…

Here is my squat from this week:

Not perfect, but getting better! Any advice or tips on progression to make my goal happen? Aside from working on better form, that much I know…THANKS!![/quote]

form is pretty damn good. a few things to work on.

  • get your neck back into the bar. i can tell there’s a mirror in front of you. NEVER look into the mirror. if you have to, turn around and face the other way. push your neck into the bar and keep it there. i tell people first learning to do this to put a baseball cap on backwards and keep the bill on their traps the entire time.

  • take a deep breath before you squat and then hold it throughout the lift. it appears that you are breathing during the rep. this makes it impossible to stay tight. exhale just as you are locking out.

  • keep working on getting the elbows down and then forced forward as you are coming out of the hole.

definitely one of the better squats i’ve seen.

77

[quote]mom-in-MD wrote:
Btw- whereabouts in VA are you?
Ever considered holding some real live training for fellow T-Nation’ers in the area?
That would be AWESOME!![/quote]

i’m in the manassas/gainesville area. i train at the Gold’s in manassas.

of course, anyone that would want to come down to train, they are more than welcome.

i, periodically, put on lifting seminars at my gym as well.

78

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
mom-in-MD wrote:
Hi MM-

We appreciate that you are here, and are willing to help!

I’ll take a turn if you don’t mind :wink:

I’m not a bodybuilder or a power lfiter, but I take my lifting seriously. I have set a few goals for myself, and one of them is to get a 200lb+ squat by my 30th b-day in August…I had a shitty max attempt a couple weeks ago of 175, haha…I’m really trying to clean up form, and keep things in mind(elbows forward, chest up, etc) Trying to break the bad habit of letting my butt lead me out of the hole…

Here is my squat from this week:

Not perfect, but getting better! Any advice or tips on progression to make my goal happen? Aside from working on better form, that much I know…THANKS!!

form is pretty damn good. a few things to work on.

  • get your neck back into the bar. i can tell there’s a mirror in front of you. NEVER look into the mirror. if you have to, turn around and face the other way. push your neck into the bar and keep it there. i tell people first learning to do this to put a baseball cap on backwards and keep the bill on their traps the entire time.

  • take a deep breath before you squat and then hold it throughout the lift. it appears that you are breathing during the rep. this makes it impossible to stay tight. exhale just as you are locking out.

  • keep working on getting the elbows down and then forced forward as you are coming out of the hole.

definitely one of the better squats i’ve seen.

[/quote]

WOW! Thanks so much! That means a lot coming from you. I appreciate your taking the time…

ya, still working on the breathing thing, haha…and there’s mirrors all over the dang gym, even if I did turn the other way!..it’s a hard habit to break, that’s for sure!

I did some light squats today and made my elbows stay DOWN, so that they would touch the top of my quads, and then DRIVE them forward coming back up…hope that sounds right!! I’m going in to squat again on Sunday, so I’ll have to take another vid! :stuck_out_tongue:

Hey, it appears that you are just under two hours from me…Is it this address: 8260 Shoppers Sq
Manassas, VA 20111…

Keep me posted whenever you hold another training clinic again! It would be pretty sweet to come down!

Thanks again for your time!! :slight_smile:

79

[quote]mom-in-MD wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
mom-in-MD wrote:
Hi MM-

We appreciate that you are here, and are willing to help!

I’ll take a turn if you don’t mind :wink:

I’m not a bodybuilder or a power lfiter, but I take my lifting seriously. I have set a few goals for myself, and one of them is to get a 200lb+ squat by my 30th b-day in August…I had a shitty max attempt a couple weeks ago of 175, haha…I’m really trying to clean up form, and keep things in mind(elbows forward, chest up, etc) Trying to break the bad habit of letting my butt lead me out of the hole…

Here is my squat from this week:

Not perfect, but getting better! Any advice or tips on progression to make my goal happen? Aside from working on better form, that much I know…THANKS!!

form is pretty damn good. a few things to work on.

  • get your neck back into the bar. i can tell there’s a mirror in front of you. NEVER look into the mirror. if you have to, turn around and face the other way. push your neck into the bar and keep it there. i tell people first learning to do this to put a baseball cap on backwards and keep the bill on their traps the entire time.

  • take a deep breath before you squat and then hold it throughout the lift. it appears that you are breathing during the rep. this makes it impossible to stay tight. exhale just as you are locking out.

  • keep working on getting the elbows down and then forced forward as you are coming out of the hole.

definitely one of the better squats i’ve seen.

WOW! Thanks so much! That means a lot coming from you. I appreciate your taking the time…

ya, still working on the breathing thing, haha…and there’s mirrors all over the dang gym, even if I did turn the other way!..it’s a hard habit to break, that’s for sure!

I did some light squats today and made my elbows stay DOWN, so that they would touch the top of my quads, and then DRIVE them forward coming back up…hope that sounds right!! I’m going in to squat again on Sunday, so I’ll have to take another vid! :stuck_out_tongue:

Hey, it appears that you are just under two hours from me…Is it this address: 8260 Shoppers Sq
Manassas, VA 20111…

Keep me posted whenever you hold another training clinic again! It would be pretty sweet to come down!

Thanks again for your time!! :slight_smile:

[/quote]

yep… that’s my hole in the wall:)

will do… i’ll let you know.

feel free to hit me up when you have a new vid.

80

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
I tried work on what you suggested, but I’m not sure I was doing them right. Here’s from my session today:

Sumo Deadlift - Only to knee
185 x 4
185 x 4
185 x 4 - 185 x 4 - Half Deads - YouTube
225 x 4
225 x 4
225 x 4 - 225 x 4 - Half Deads - YouTube

I backed off the weight to try to work on what you asked me to. I’m not sure I did a good job in general, but I didn’t really feel like I was pulling the bar into my shins enough. Maybe I was, but I’m just not sure.
[/quote]

the 225 video looked really good.

pulling the weight into your shins is more of a cue to let yourself know that you are pulling back against you instead of just lifting up.

the only thing that i can critique is keep forcing your knees out hard. when i initiate my pull off the floor, i begin by pushing as hard as i can, out, on my knees. then i think about squatting the weight up. the arms are just there to hold the weight.

i tell you what… you guys are really improving quickly.