Extreme Arch Benching

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
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[quote]Limbic wrote:
As far as RJ is concerned, he probably should stop listening cause I only seem to rock his boat of “established understandings”. Definitely one of my intentions.[/quote]

You say I “seem” to have had my boat of “established understandings” rocked. From what do you gather this? Where do you see me questioning any of my “established understandings”?

Maybe you’re reading a different thread? Or maybe you’re just spouting off at the mouth. That seems to be the consensus of the other posters about your intentions. But I’m sure in your little world that you are King of Internet Debates and think that you’ve actually made a valid point on this thread about the use of gear in powerlifting. I have heard and thought all of the things you have said on this thread before. There is nothing new being presented here, yet it seems that many other people have moved past your line of thinking (just as most move past breast milk). You are using “facts” to base your opinion on that are not actually facts. We have tried to point this out to you, but sadly you will not listen.

We attempt to show you the light, but it is futile, as there is no mirror for stupid.

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mertdawg said:
“1) With regard to the Wrestler’s bridge, A good ME exercise to help you stay tight is to do bench press using only the bottom 1 foot of the bench on which you plant your traps/scapula. Its best to do in a power rack. You can also set the bench crossways and plant your scapula on it and the bench will stop you like in a floor press.”
These are all good techniques for learning to use the body as a unit in the arch. Same as driving the heels down.

Goldberg said:
“If his bench is this high raw, then he is stronger than Dave Tate, Jim Wendler, Tommy Fannon, and about every other powerlifter in the world.”
I don’t know the bodyweights of any of these lifters or their raw bench. One of them said on the net that he gets 200 lbs. out of his shirt, but I’ve never heard of his raw bench. I bet he is stronger than them. I do have to agree with big martin, Ron Palmer and Mike Coe sound like they are true icons.
Now that big martin has had enough time to re-compose himself over the poster saying Archuleta is “sooooooooo hot. and …”. bm’s inflammation was understandable, and funny. He did go on to say some unsupportable things later in the thread, as did Scott613 with "“Archuleta has no lifting success…” . As I said before there is no context where that statement can stand other than a JackAss-type taunt, but I doubt JackAss is even that strong raw. Scott613, as Jack Kempo, ended with telling kenmen to Stop Whining. Read that thread again and if you can find kenmen whining anywhere post it. kenmen in his prime was probably stronger than all of us in his prime, raw.

Types like Archuleta do pop up occasionally. That’s the purpose of professional sports organizations, to patronize them. If their salary is sustainable, give it to them.

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[quote]Limbic wrote:
apwsearch, are you aware that JackAss’s statement covers probably all the regular writers of articles, CT, Berardi, Waterbury, etc. So if you’re underwriting the criteria of JackAss, man you are either impossibly bluntly rude, or have the social awareness of a 3-year old.

You know what? I honestly couldn’t give a shit less about JA or your self. And I am sure you both reciprocate.

I may have the “social awareness,” whatever that means, of a 3 year old but apparently I am pretty skilled at steering a mental midget to a solid conclusion. I can assure you it is not a unique thought to anyone but your clueless ass that the criteria expressed would exclude damn near everybody from being able to participate on this site.

You picking his statement as something that bolsters your worthless opinions demonstrates just how much of a roundhead you are.

Perhaps I am the only one inspired by your numbers. I am heading to the gym in a few minutes. I am going to rep 5 plates 12 times on the seated calf raise and then I am heading over to theleg extension machine for a BIG PR.

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apw:
You are ignorance personified. Like a cornered animal, YOU BITE.

Have a great workout!

65

[quote]Limbic wrote:
Toddy, I Spy:
Just to give you a sense of what you’re asking me to accept. This is just numbers gleaned from what’s posted on irongame:
Gene Rychlak June 7, 2003 810 lb
(?) 2004 1005 lb
Are you really asking me to accept that Rychlak gained 195 lbs. of strength in 6 months? There’s your sport. Did his deadlift progress at all in that time?
Read below, Toddy, there’s great instruction here.
[/quote]

No, read my post again. I’m not asking to accept that he gained “195 lbs. of strength in 6 months”. I’m asking you to accept that he gained 195 lbs on his bench press in a Powerlifting competition.

He gained 195 lbs of skill. He may have found a shirt that works better for him. He may have altered the shirt he had. He may have gotten a better arch. Put his feet in closer. Moved them out wider. Got faster. I don’t know what he did in those six months. He probably did get stronger, though, along with whatever else helped break 1000 lbs.

Maybe he had 1000 lbs in him 6 months ago, but he wasn’t confident enought to try it. Maybe he just wasn’t having a good meet six months ago and decided to stay relatively low on his lifts. Again, I don’t know.

So, back to what you asked, whether or not he gained 195 lbs of strength. If you don’t believe it, then don’t. I don’t believe it was all strength either. But I do believe he gained something that made him better at the sport of bench pressing.

Look, take football placekickers, for example. Kicking is a skill. It requires strength, but it requires a lot more, too. Jason Elam made a 63 yard field goal in 1998. This was his sixth NFL season. His longest the year before was 53. His longest ever, besides the 63, was 56.

So what happened? Did he, in one football season, gain enough strength to add seven to ten yards to his kicking length? No. He got better in other ways. Just like Gene, I’m sure he did gain some strength, but there’s so much more to it. He may have a better kicking stroke. Maybe he found the best way to kick to maximize height and distance.

You know kickers use different shoes, too. Not just different from other kickers, but different than eachother. Most wear some type of socccer shoe. Some kick barefoot. Elam wears a Nike Tempo soccer shoe. You know what else? He wears his kicking shoe a couple sizes too small, so it will fit real tight. Whoa, sounds kinda like someone fitting into their bench shirt that fits too tight.

Let’s continue with the kicker comparison. So Jason hits a 63 yarder. In some eyes that makes him a better kicker. He knows he has the confidence and the ability to hit from that far. So did his kickoff yardage go up as well? Was he making more special teams tackles? Maybe maybe not. So when you ask if Gene’s deadlift went up, too, it’s irrelevant. Whether it did or not doesn’t add to or take away from what either of these men accomplished. They both had record setting accomplishments regardless of what else they did that day.

I don’t think you’re seeing the big picture. Powerlifting is a sport. It has competitions, rules, legal and illegal equipment, referees, etc. When someone competes in a powerlifting meet, they are testing themselves in much more than strength. You still need to be strong, and powerlifters are strong, but it taked more than raw strength.

On to some other things you have said:

“My opinion is that this website is intended to help people develop true strength, not hide behind their squat suit. Something that takes 15-20 minutes to get into, and it’s not a prop.”

This website has a section of its forums called “Strenght Sports”. That would include powerlifting. So I guess this website does help people use their “prop[s]”.

“As I said before there is no context where that statement can stand other than a JackAss-type taunt, but I doubt JackAss is even that strong raw.”

JackAss benches over 500 raw.

Look, I get it. You don’t like gear. That’s fine. Don’t use it. Don’t compete in powerlifting meets that allow it. Hell, I doubt you have any aspirations to compete at all. But, since you have never competed, and have never tried any gear, you really shouldn’t attempt to criticize that for which you do not understand.

Elam probably had the wind help his kick, so the kick doesn’t count,
Toddy

66

[quote]Limbic wrote:
apwsearch:
And from the posts of mine after the one you quoted you’ll note that I indicate that perhaps it is time to reconsider my judgement of the bands and try some new techniques. [/quote]

I don’t think anyone really cares what you think about bands. Anyone who says the nautilus pull-over machine is the greatest machine ever and uses “stretching of the rib cage” as one of his supporting arguments for the statement is a person who is not to be taken seriously in a weight-lifting discussion.

[quote]As for JackAss, I bet you belong in that group of his description that shouldn’t be posting. Raw, of course.
And, of course, my act of quoting him would indicate to anyone with a brain that, yes, he was referring to me, too, and that it doesn’t bother me because his declaration is too absolute. My opinion is that this website is intended to help people develop true strength, not hide behind their squat suit. Something that takes 15-20 minutes to get into, and it’s not a prop.[/quote]

Why do you assume JA was referring to raw. JA trained with the westside boys and I seriously doubt he has an aversion to gear. What about you? Do you ever use a belt, straps, chalk…maybe gloves to keep your fingers in good shape for typing since you seem to ALWAYS be logged on to this site? What is TRUE strength? Does that mean if I should only squat what I can pick up off the floor and put on my back without a rack? Hell maybe i shouldn’t even use a barbell…I’ll just find some big rocks to push around. Maybe that’ll help me develop some TRUE strength. Many people have differing views on what TRUE strength is from olympic lifters to powerlifters to football players… I respect everyone’s personal opinion as long as they don’t go blasting everyone else for thinking something different. On the other hand, you are completely disrespectful and many of us would appreciate it if you’d keep your mouth shut and maybe if you’d spend a little less time on the computer, since you appear to be on here ALL THE TIME, you’d have a little more time to spend in the gym developing some TRUE strength. You could even use that extra time to get a job and buy yourself a squat suit and bench shirt to try out, I’d love to hear about your first couple experiences with a tight fitting fury… just make sure you have good spotters.

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You dont get it and never will. I would also be willing to bet that you have never pulled anything heavier than a shopping bag off the floor and couldnt bench press your way out of a paper bag. If you had extensive weight lifting experience, you would know how unbelievable a raw 500 bench is when done by a natural 220lb man.

68

[quote]Goldberg wrote:
You dont get it and never will. I would also be willing to bet that you have never pulled anything heavier than a shopping bag off the floor and couldnt bench press your way out of a paper bag. If you had extensive weight lifting experience, you would know how unbelievable a raw 500 bench is when done by a natural 220lb man. [/quote]

The best RAW 220lb lift ever, was ~573 by mike mcdonald, in a time where there was no drug testing in powerlifting.
For Adam to be a ‘natural’ non competitive person, benching anywhere near McDonald is dreaming.

Has anyone actually seen Adam benching anywhere near 500 or are they talking shit

69

[quote]
Has anyone actually seen Adam benching anywhere near 500 or are they talking shit[/quote]

DB saw it.

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  1. Some days you guys make me feel weak, like when I hear about 800+ pound squats. I always had big hips and thighs and loved to squat but for some reason my squat stalled out at 445 about a year ago (I think it had something to do with squatting “heavy” 3x/week and just having a sore back all the time). I am optimistic when I hear that a 500 pound raw and natural bench at 220 is considered good. I have never competed in a meet but on my current cycle I was gonna try 375-385 perfect form in a couple of weeks, and then get down to 180 pounds for spring (which has always made me stronger). Just humbly asking for some advice, if I can hit 380 at 180 raw and natural is that good enough to maybe go to a local bench press only meet? Am I still way too weak to think about becoming a bench press specialist? I mean, I could really see myself 5 years from now at around 220 and benching close to 500.

  2. By the way this is eclectic (whatever the heck that means) but I read some kind of article about wrist size, and my wrists are tiny (6 1/2" on the button). Anyone care to measure their wrists? Anyone there with small wrists bench 500?

  3. I heard about a guy who set a world record by running 5 miles in (I think they said) just under 15 minutes wearing on his feet some kind of metal attachment that he developed. I’ve also heard about some type of rubber swim suit that can tap into the difference in temperature between the swimmer and the water and use it to actually produce swimming energy. Unless we lift naked, we all use equiptment. Ted Williams used a batting glove. From my outside opinion, someone who argues that equiptment is bad can never win the argument (or always win if that’s how they want to see it) but I remember hearing that some federations banned reverse grip benching when it looked like Anthony Clark was running away from everyone. It just seems to me that arguing straight up for/against equiptment is a no-win argument and a big waste of time, but the suited up numbers probably discourage participation in the sport. I am interested in peoples response to this question: If powerlifting were going to have a single set of international rules and possibly be in the olympics, what should the rules be?

  4. Are we getting stronger? When I read about the numbers that Paul Anderson, Bill Kazmaier and Ed Coan put up with no or limited equiptment, wouldn’t these 3 guys totally dominate everybody today if they trained to use all out equiptment? There has to be 20 times more people today who can bench 300 than 20 years ago, but has the best in the world actually gotten stronger (or for that matter improved in any sports)?

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Gentlemen:
This is why I don’t post any numbers. I am Built & Huge, shoulders like cannonballs, primal. I am here …

72

306×576 84.4 KB

I am also here …
Grovel.

(both pictures by Larry McCusker)

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[quote]Goldberg wrote:
You dont get it and never will. I would also be willing to bet that you have never pulled anything heavier than a shopping bag off the floor and couldnt bench press your way out of a paper bag. If you had extensive weight lifting experience, you would know how unbelievable a raw 500 bench is when done by a natural 220lb man. [/quote]

Wow, I wouldn’t even attempt to read this whole thread but I appreciate Goldberg’s words here. This was the only point I was trying to make in the previous “Archuleta” thread that has been referenced in this thread. Hey, I don’t know if Archuleta really did this but if he did it is pretty amazing. Also, this is in no way to take away from the accomplishments of the current crop of lifters who are putting up big numbers with the assistance of modern day equipment. Take it easy.

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The thing that I dont get about Archulettas 500+ RAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW bench is that he only got in the very low 30’s (31 I think) for his 220 rep test…

Ive got 27 reps at 220 on a day when i wasnt really psyched or feeling great and my max is a mere 365 raw bench (on a day i was feeling GREAT…)… I dont see how an extra 150 pounds would only gain him 4 reps, seriously the difference between a mid 300s and a 500+ bench is gigantic, the difference between 27 and 31 isnt much at all…
Sure there other factors may contribute but its highly unlikely that some endurance and muscle fibre characteristics will account for the huuuuuuuuge differences in 1RM…

Ive also read somewhere that Archuletas max bench was actually in the low 400’s which would be more believable…

As for bench shirts vs RAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, I dont see the problem… Bench shirts assist the lifter, there is NO question about that… the shirted lifts should be seen as seperate to raw lifts and as part of a competition… Why are people getting all worked up?

[quote]kenmen wrote:
Goldberg wrote:
You dont get it and never will. I would also be willing to bet that you have never pulled anything heavier than a shopping bag off the floor and couldnt bench press your way out of a paper bag. If you had extensive weight lifting experience, you would know how unbelievable a raw 500 bench is when done by a natural 220lb man.

Wow, I wouldn’t even attempt to read this whole thread but I appreciate Goldberg’s words here. This was the only point I was trying to make in the previous “Archuleta” thread that has been referenced in this thread. Hey, I don’t know if Archuleta really did this but if he did it is pretty amazing. Also, this is in no way to take away from the accomplishments of the current crop of lifters who are putting up big numbers with the assistance of modern day equipment. Take it easy.[/quote]

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In all fairness, a direct quote:

“i have learned on every lift that i have done since the 900lb bench and the hub bub over big mike miller’s squat, that there is no benefit to posting any video. sure that decision hurts my true fans and by the tone of your post sir. you sound like the monday morning quarterbacks who live to tear any achievement apart. anybody can sit in front a tv screen pause and slow motion any video and possibly find faults in any sport. what matters is that there were 2 world judges and 1 state official who called it as they saw it. the audience saw the same thing. CLEAN LIFT!i am not trying to justify anything but it bothers me when people hide behind screens and question lifts instead of attending meets and seeing for themselves. and sir, why don’t you tell danny live and in living color what you think of him. betcha your tune changes. have a nice day!”
Gene Rychlak, himself

It is a sport.

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[quote]Limbic wrote:
In all fairness, a direct quote:

“i have learned on every lift that i have done since the 900lb bench and the hub bub over big mike miller’s squat, that there is no benefit to posting any video. sure that decision hurts my true fans and by the tone of your post sir. you sound like the monday morning quarterbacks who live to tear any achievement apart. anybody can sit in front a tv screen pause and slow motion any video and possibly find faults in any sport. what matters is that there were 2 world judges and 1 state official who called it as they saw it. the audience saw the same thing. CLEAN LIFT!i am not trying to justify anything but it bothers me when people hide behind screens and question lifts instead of attending meets and seeing for themselves. and sir, why don’t you tell danny live and in living color what you think of him. betcha your tune changes. have a nice day!”
Gene Rychlak, himself

It is a sport.
[/quote]

What was the point of you posting that? It sounds like you just agreed with everybody you have been arguing against.

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Not agree Todd.

Means I understand.

Catch up.

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[quote]Limbic wrote:
Not agree Todd.

Means I understand.

Catch up.[/quote]

Point taken. I’m finished. As long as you at least understand.