T Nation

ZMA

I wanted to throw this out there, to see what thoughts you may have on ZMA.

I read a recent study from the Univ. of Baylor, which when boiled down, stated that ZMA has no affect on raising blood hormone levels etc. These tests were done on NCAA football players. Net-net bottom line, ZMA doesn’t work.

Now, I just read in an interview here in T-Nation with Victor Conti, where the University of Western Washington utilized double blind studies as the Baylor tests. However, these studies showed that ZMA does indeed raise hormone levels, and size and strength gains are noticed.

What are your thoughts?

If you wanna be one hundred percent sure get your hormones checked out before and after taking ZMA. It works if you’re stressed or depleted.

I’d certainly like to know which is true!

It helps maintain the proper levels of zinc in our systems; weight-trainers tend to become depleated faster than sedentary individuals.

Thus, without it, you risk becoming low on zinc levels, which directly correlates to your testosterone levels.

So, low zinc equals low T. Supplement with zinc and you’ll be fine.

The average American male gets just about exactly 100% of the USRDA of Zinc. If you train hard, you may need 2-8 times this much (probably more like 2-3 times). Football players probably have pretty high testosterone levels already and may be getting 2-3 times the RDA of Zinc.

My understanding is that the basketball players at Western Washington were all low on zinc. The basketball players at Baylor were all instructed by a nutritionist and monitored. The Baylor players probably had enought zinc in their diet.

[quote]tall tom wrote:
My understanding is that the basketball players at Western Washington were all low on zinc. The basketball players at Baylor were all instructed by a nutritionist and monitored. The Baylor players probably had enought zinc in their diet.[/quote]

But the basketball players still might have had high testosterone given age etc.

The studies that were done were done with football players. This shouldn?t matter.

I firmly believe that most brothers and sisters of the T-Nation just want the truth, and not a bunch of hyped up crap espousing the “steroid” like effects of…you put the name here.

Both used double blind studies…one shows no increase of testosterone or GF1 level increase, the other shows that it does.

I don’t like to throw money into a product only to find that it doesn’t work…and I’m out the coin.

I’m hoping that there are some who read this, who will share their thoughts, and let us know if they noticed any changes etc.

OK, I started taking Zinc (50-100 mg/day) and would say only that I felt my testosterone levels stayed up even though I ended a cycle of Alpha Male and M, however, I also went on a more controlled carb diet at the same time (around 200 grams/day) which also usually seems to work. I don’t have blood tests to show it though and I haven’t experienced any HUGE impact but I’ll give it a few more weeks and let you know. Again, no data, no tests, take it for what it is.

Oh! I DID notice one effect that directly coincided with starting to take Zinc-clearer skin. Strange. Big whoop I know but I used to have a little bit of acne at the top of my forehead all the time and its completely gone! Again, big whoop!

I have always noticed a decisive boost approximately 30-45 minutes after my ZMA at night.

This study doesn’t surprise me at all.

From day one, ZMA has been touted as effective for those that suffer from a zinc/magnesium deficiency, which is about 20% of the general public.

Football players, being omnivores (If it ain’t movin’, they eat it), would be unlikely to have a zinc or mag deficiency.

However, physique athletes are more likely to have a problem in that average bodybuilder eats only about 20 different foods.

That’s not to say that all or even most bodybuilders have a deficiency, but certainly a lot of them (us) do.

I could care less what it does for my hormones. I take it to deepen and make my sleep more restoring. I feel more refreshed the days after sleeping taking ZMA, but hey, for 9 bucks a bottle. Who cares…

I read somewhere in one of the threads, that you do get a much deeper REM sleep, and dreaming is much more vivid.

Pretty wild. I have no problems with deep sleep.

[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
I could care less what it does for my hormones. I take it to deepen and make my sleep more restoring. I feel more refreshed the days after sleeping taking ZMA, but hey, for 9 bucks a bottle. Who cares…[/quote]

I agree. Sometimes I feel extremely angry, and sometimes I get weird rushes of energy. The deeper sleep is a great help in general. That’s all I’ve found.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
The average American male gets just about exactly 100% of the USRDA of Zinc. If you train hard, you may need 2-8 times this much (probably more like 2-3 times). .[/quote]

2-8 times? you realise excessive zinc has negative consequences, including being slightly immunosuppressive?

The origonal study on ZMA was performed by Victor Conte, the latest one was not. The original one did not include any information on dietary intake amongst other factors. The latest one did.

I definitely sleep better with ZMA, and the dreams aren’t bad either. :wink: Like someone else said, for 9 bucks, it’s well worth it.

[quote]cycomiko wrote:
2-8 times? you realise excessive zinc has negative consequences, including being slightly immunosuppressive?
[/quote]

8 times would be the maximum theraputic dose and that might be for a week maximum for burn victims etc. I said 2-3 times if your training hard.

Hmm… what other negatives might one garner from excessive zinc, and, do you have any studies/articles backing this up? Or at least an explanation of how zinc might cause these things?

If all else fails, find me a placebo that works, not a placebo that doesn’t work.