You're No Longer a Beginner When...

You’re No Longer a Beginner When…

People stop asking you IF you work out.

I’d say after you’ve put in a year or so of smart training with out significant lay off time.

But like everyone else said, it’s not exact science so don’t sweat it. Just look to keep making progress.

i am able to do everything in that list, but i can’t squat 2x my weight, do you mean, full ass to the grass squats?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
fahd wrote:
I doubt most people at westside can do 12 clean chin ups and dips. I am also not sure whether a superheavy weight powerlifter can military press 300 lbs. Those people I am sure are not beginners.

There are some pro-bodybuilders that can’t do that many chin ups in the off season when they weigh 50lbs more than contest weight.[/quote]

The out of shape offseason BB knows he has to lose fat and can’t bang out 12 chin ups. This does not make him a beginner, it just shows the obvious.

Most of these things are good rules of thumb, but I think we are mixing things up a little.

I would classify the higher rep goals like the chin ups and dips as marks of overall fitness rather than if you are a beginner weight trainer or not.

I think if you can do the same number of hand stand push ups and chin ups you are either a complete freak or the number is zero.

This is way too complex to make any specific “list”. I’ve known a lot of guys who were scary strong that could do any of the strength feats on the original list, yet their diet and workout habits were horrible. I’ve known people who were a wealth of knowlege and trained with good form, but, due to genetics, nobody would have looked to them for advice in the gym.
Personally, I’ve become more of a “beginner” every time I gain more knowlege. Most of the stuff that I used to do (that I learned from the musclebound “experts” in the gyms I started in), I have found to be bad habits. I’ve adapted a ton just over the past 5 years.
I think you graduate from beginner when you are able to question and rethink what you are doing based on research and knowlege and NOT based on regurgitating information from “the big guy at the gym”.

Here is my opinion which isn’t worth much…

I think he was more so referring to a beginner’s list for beginner’s to use as a reference. I think you guys are over-analyzing this. Of course there are exceptions that have been mentioned but It’s pretty obvious that these guys aren’t beginners. It’s also obvious they aren’t going to be reading anything about how to determine if you are a beginner or not. He just wanted a general reference I think for someone just starting out to strive for.

[quote]tad wrote:
Here is my opinion which isn’t worth much…

I think he was more so referring to a beginner’s list for beginner’s to use as a reference. I think you guys are over-analyzing this. Of course there are exceptions that have been mentioned but It’s pretty obvious that these guys aren’t beginners. It’s also obvious they aren’t going to be reading anything about how to determine if you are a beginner or not. He just wanted a general reference I think for someone just starting out to strive for.[/quote]

If you need a list…you still are a beginner.

You are no longer a beginner when you can train instinctively, you don’t need someone to put together your training plan…you know what works for you and what doesn’t.

You are no longer a beginner when you walk into the gym, and the sound of plates banging gives you a hard on.

You are no longer a beginner when you couldn’t give a rat’s ass about what anyone else is lifting…it’s your lift that matters.

The list goes on , but you get the idea. Don’t try to complicate a very simple thing…

JD

First off, a bodyweight bench press should NOT give “intermediate” status. I’m currently taking weight training in HS for my PE credit and my training partner is one of my good friends. Prior to this class, he had NEVER worked out. Never bench pressed, squatted, or anything. After about a month, he could bench press his bodyweight (135).

Actually, he could bench 130 at the very beginning of the year, so he only went up 5 lbs in 2 months (pretty crappy for a beginner). And that’s with a half-assed training program and no real work on his part. We both just goof around in that close because he doesn’t care and I’d rather workout at my gym and do a real training program.

More relevant to the discussion, I believe how much someone has gained makes them above “beginner” status. If you’ve worked out for a year and gained crap, you’re still a beginner. If you can perform 12 chin-ups, you still might be a beginner. There’s tons of extremely skinny kids who have never worked out and can do 12 pull-ups.

Hell, I can do 12 pull-ups and I’m definitely a beginner (been working out for approx. 3 months). But, if a person works out for a year and makes good gains in size, strength, and knowledge, I’d say that elevates him or her to “intermediate status.”

[quote]!vic wrote:
You’re No Longer a Beginner When…

  1. You don’t worry about convincing others that you are no longer a beginner.
  2. You don’t expect others to see the results of a 6-week program.
  3. Inches no longer matter.
  4. You always have a plan to reach a goal.
  5. Your plan does not include every new workout that was recently published.
  6. Your logs are categorized by year.
  7. Others plan around your workout schedule.
  8. You’ve had to buy new clothes at least twice.
  9. You realize that theory is only part of the answer.
  10. You read way more than you post and you lift way more than you read.
    [/quote]

Amen to that!

[quote]!vic wrote:
You’re No Longer a Beginner When…

  1. You don’t worry about convincing others that you are no longer a beginner.
  2. You don’t expect others to see the results of a 6-week program.
  3. Inches no longer matter.
  4. You always have a plan to reach a goal.
  5. Your plan does not include every new workout that was recently published.
  6. Your logs are categorized by year.
  7. Others plan around your workout schedule.
  8. You’ve had to buy new clothes at least twice.
  9. You realize that theory is only part of the answer.
  10. You read way more than you post and you lift way more than you read.
    [/quote]

Exactly Sir.

[quote]The Rover wrote:
More relevant to the discussion, I believe how much someone has gained makes them above “beginner” status. If you’ve worked out for a year and gained crap, you’re still a beginner. [/quote]

thats got nothing to do with being a beginner though either… . remember genetics and appetite + work and other life factors have a huge impact there. …

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
The Rover wrote:
More relevant to the discussion, I believe how much someone has gained makes them above “beginner” status. If you’ve worked out for a year and gained crap, you’re still a beginner.

thats got nothing to do with being a beginner though either… . remember genetics and appetite + work and other life factors have a huge impact there. …[/quote]

They don’t have that much of an impact…or if they do, then you either don’t set your priorities very high as far as physical progress in the first place in which case you are still a beginner. If someone has been training for 5 years and they haven’t made even enough progress for anyone to know they lift weights or exercise regularly, regardless of if they blame it on having five kids, they are still a beginner largely. While genetics play a factor, that excuse is also a very large crutch for many who either get turned around as far as their technique, their food intake or their push for advancement.

You actually wrote that someone’s appetite is a factor? That STILL comes down to desire. I hope you don’t think that many of these guys who do carry a good deal of mass never had to force down a few meals. In the case of dieting, I hope you don’t think that these guys didn’t ever have to deal with temptation.

[quote]J Dawg wrote:
tad wrote:
Here is my opinion which isn’t worth much…

I think he was more so referring to a beginner’s list for beginner’s to use as a reference. I think you guys are over-analyzing this. Of course there are exceptions that have been mentioned but It’s pretty obvious that these guys aren’t beginners. It’s also obvious they aren’t going to be reading anything about how to determine if you are a beginner or not. He just wanted a general reference I think for someone just starting out to strive for.

If you need a list…you still are a beginner.

You are no longer a beginner when you can train instinctively, you don’t need someone to put together your training plan…you know what works for you and what doesn’t.

You are no longer a beginner when you walk into the gym, and the sound of plates banging gives you a hard on.

You are no longer a beginner when you couldn’t give a rat’s ass about what anyone else is lifting…it’s your lift that matters.

The list goes on , but you get the idea. Don’t try to complicate a very simple thing…

JD

[/quote]

Cheers to that.

except the hard on thing though, sort of disturbing.

You are no longer a beginner when:

  1. Your metabolic recovery capacity has increased from its baseline.
  2. Your neural recovery capacity has increased from its baseline.
    3.You can lift with greater intensity and or volume than where you started.
  3. Any joint instability or muscular imbalances have been addressed and you are in a condition to lift at near max or max levels.
  4. You are psychologicaly prepared and conditioned to function at near max or max levels.

These are the criteria that I look for to determine whether or not someone I lift with is ready to “turn it up a notch”.
I know they seem a bit loose, but trying to apply standards and norms to people who are trying to break the norms and standards is a like trying to measure distance with a watch.

If you try to create a list just to prove to yourself that your not a beginner, than you are a beginner. It doesn’t matter what you are, as long as you’re making gains.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I agree in that trying to make a list that specifically makes you an intermediate is pointless. Basically, if you have to ask, you are still a beginner.[/quote]

Although it does feel good going down that list thinking, “got that…”, I have to agree with the having to ask part.

bodyweight bench or row is quite easy, quite a few guys with only a little training seem to be able to do this

a 2x bodyweight deadlift however is quite a challenge. that would be 410lbs for me which isn’t exactly a small amount…might be for some of you behemoths

You’re no longer a beginner when you can squat rack cheat curl more than anybody in the gym.
Your’re no longer a beginner when you can 2 man bench/deadlift more than anybody else in the gym.
You’re no longer a beginner when you realize that pullups are for pussies, real men just do bench press, cause working your back sucks.
You’re no longer a beginner when you realize that everybody is the exact same, and that if you do the exact same workout as your idol in Flex you’ll look exactly like him.

[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:
Alright. So I’m compiling little tidbits of info off of T-Nation here to figure out some criteria for when you’re no longer considered “a beginner” or when you’re considered to be a “baseline strong” member of T-Nation…

Dan John’s training tip gives two criteria:

  • A bodyweight bench press
  • A 2x bodyweight deadlift

Alwyn’s training tip a while back gave another two:

  • 12 clean bodyweight chin ups
  • 12 clean bodyweight dips

As Alwyn professes, and I agree, for every push or pull, the corresponding antagonist push or pull should be nearly identical in terms of intensity and volume. So…

  • A bodyweight bench press & bent-over row.
  • 12 clean bodyweight chin ups and 90% bodyweight military press.
  • 12 clean bodyweight dips and 90% bodyweight incline bench dumbbell rows.

I’ve also read on here somewhere way back when that your deadlift and squat should be roughly the same. So that’s…

  • 2 x bodyweight deadlift and squat.

And, for good measure:

  • 100 “old school” sit ups.

So let’s compile:

  • bodyweight bench press & bent-over row.
  • 12 clean chin ups & 90% bw. military press.
  • 12 clean dips & 90% bw. incline bench dumbbell row.
  • 2 x bodyweight deadlift & squat
  • 100 “old school” sit ups.

Of course, looking at this, if you can do the 12 x 90% bw. military press it’s a given you can bench more than your bodyweight, as with 12 x 90% bw incline bench dumbbell row you’ll be able to bent-over row more than your bodyweight.

Maybe it should be 150% bodyweight bench press and bent-over row…

I need a little help cleaning up my criteria, T-Nation. So have at it. :D[/quote]

Heh, this is my first day here. I can do all of those things listed above, but I’m pretty sure I’m a beginniner =). By the way, if anyone can answer this question for me… I’m dying to know. I just recently read some articles on virgin coconut oil and how it’s the most healthy oil etc… Well, I bought some Lou-ana coconut oil. It’s not hydrogenated, but it’s bleached, refined, and deodorized. I was just wondering if it’ll be really “healthy” although it may not be as good as the expensive coconut oil that’s not accessible at your local wal-marts.

[quote]machineshop wrote:
If you try to create a list just to prove to yourself that your not a beginner, than you are a beginner. It doesn’t matter what you are, as long as you’re making gains.[/quote]

I agree.

In a similar vein:

As far as lifting weights/training is concerned, you’re no longer a beginner when the only benchmarks you consistently try to beat are the ones you’ve already set for yourself.

In a more abstract sense:

A beginner is someone who simply does not know what they are or are not capable of–yet they still hope to stumble across their goals as if looking for change that’s fallen out of their pockets while walking home one night in a dense fog. What often separates most beginners from the intermediates in the first place is the obvious lack of a concrete goal.

An intermediate, armed with some idea of what they are capable of, now sets out upon a direct course of action to attain a goal that still might not be within their ability to reach–like a climber who has risen above the clouds and is now able to see the peak for the first time. What often separates the intermediates from the experts is that they simply do not know whether the goal they have set is too high or too low until they succeed/fail because they do not have enough experience to draw from yet.

Finally, an expert fully knows what they are capable of because they have tried every method and are able to adapt them at will to achieve whatever goal they have realistically set for themselves–these are the people like Antoine Merriweather and Blane Edwards (hosts of “Men On Books”, “Men On Film”, etc.) who can tell you right away whether they “Hated it!” or “gave it three snaps in Z-formation!” and why.

Most are beginners. The somewhat dedicated and reasonably intelligent beginners usually become intermediates. The most tenacious of intermediates might become experts, given enough time.

However, if people are still looking for merit badges they can sew onto their sash, they can go somewhere else:

http://scetc.tecom.usmc.mil/SecurityAssistance/general/pft.asp

“But,” as the Dude says, “that’s just like, [my] opinion, man!”