You're John Hackleman, What Now?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

he needs to learn to fight counterpunchers. or at least fuckin cover his chin. COVER THE FUCKIN CHIN. i watch the replay of the knockout and it makes me want to cry. hackleman stated that they fight with the left hand down to somehow whip a jab or looping hook out quickly, and that the shoulder is enough to guard the chin.

i think the weakness in that stance has been discovered and exploited. maybe chuck is just too used to firing from the hip with his punches. he will get knocked out again if he continues to ignore this.

22

and fuck the jardine loss. it was cosmic justice when wandy skull fucked him

23

Hate to say this kind of thing cause it sounds like I’m bashing fighters, I’m not. And no this isn’t any bandwagon shit, I’ve thought this about chuck for a while I’m just NOW seeing it come to fruition… But John Hackleman hasn’t really trained anyone BUT chuck from the ground up.

A lot of coaches can take good guys and “reboot” them, ala Xtreme Couture, but it takes a very special coach to build them from the ground up ala, Militech Camp (whom got ‘stale’ themselves because of no growth). The Pit hasn’t been able to do either, the only guy they have that even deserves a UFC shot might be Glover Texiera (he has a win over Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou), everyone else as soon as they hit the next level of competition crumbles.

And often times (if you go to the Pit site, go to team, and check their fight records…) it’s by K.O.

Now I’m not saying that chuck was a fluke, or even a case of “inspite of” rather than “because of”. Exact opposite. Someone stated it earlier, chucks method worked perfectly against the influx of wrestlers and grapplers who wanted to take him down… guys who’s striking isn’t really developed, and they’re using the striking without commitment to just move into takedowns.

Perfect person to counter punch against while you’re circling back, and if you have power damn thats almost guaranteed knockouts.

But now he’s fighting a guy who (look at the video/gif) is circling, moving his head, throwing out jabs to bait him… he fients one jab, throws a loose one to bait him, and brings the BOOM with his right hand and chuck is left open to it.

The problem is that chuck’s TACTIC for grapplers became his STYLE.

It was never really meant to be a ‘style’ more like a one time use thing… except he happen to be able to use it on his next like 6 opponents (whom he fought probably a total of 10-12x) so it just stuck.

IMO, Chuck WOULD be better off either bringing in some fresh meat, some guys HIS LEVEL to train with (no one one their roster touches him), or going somewhere else (with hackleman at his side if he wants, they’re family, hackleman knows how to deal with chuck) and just picking up some new tricks along the way while they get back to basics.

IMO, chuck has time, he’ll be back, but he needs sound fundamentals. some would say its too late to change him, but imo he ALREADY has the tools he just needs to start using them. If you watch really early chuck fights he uses takedowns, a ground game, great sprawl, kicks, clinch, etc… He’s extremely well rounded.

Imo it’s not a question of CAN he, it’s a question of WILL he.

24

[quote]Donut62 wrote:

He trained Chuck into one of the most dominant MMA champions ever, I wouldn’t call him a “problem”. It’s just that guys get stale working in the same environment all the time, and things like the basics they learned long ago start to erode.

Just look at boxing. The top trainers like Emmanual Steward, Freddie Roach, Mayweather Sr., Teddy Atlas, etc will be training a top fighter one fight, and be training his opponent the next. Just getting a fresh pair of eyes on what you are doing can make all the difference.[/quote]

Good post. Hackleman is one of the best. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t understand the sport.

Fighters don’t always follow the game plan. That’s not the coach’s fault.

25

Hi Mr Wat,
what are the better type of BlocK for Hypertrophy?Research has shown that the detrimental effects of overreaching in training do not begin until the fourth to sixth week . The proposal is simple: increase your total loading volume for three or four weeks, then take a single week of lowered volume to deload

26

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
imo he ALREADY has the tools he just needs to start using them. If you watch really early chuck fights he uses takedowns, a ground game, great sprawl, kicks, clinch, etc… He’s extremely well rounded.

Imo it’s not a question of CAN he, it’s a question of WILL he.

[/quote]

This is exactly the truth Xen. Even a few leg and body kicks after a hand combination would have stopped Evans from getting the range and timing down so easily. It changes the whole gameon the feet.

OMC

27

[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:
Donut62 wrote:

Good post. Hackleman is one of the best. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t understand the sport.

Fighters don’t always follow the game plan. That’s not the coach’s fault. [/quote]

I understand the sport but don’t know much about Hackleman other than him training chuck. What other MMA fighters does he corner? Or what other fighters use him for their primary camp?

28

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Chad Waterbury wrote:
Donut62 wrote:

Good post. Hackleman is one of the best. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t understand the sport.

Fighters don’t always follow the game plan. That’s not the coach’s fault.

I understand the sport but don’t know much about Hackleman other than him training chuck. What other MMA fighters does he corner? Or what other fighters use him for their primary camp?[/quote]

This will help:

29

Greetings Chad, i’ve got a quick question:
can i use the fat-loss progression of 60 sec. rest decreasing 5 sec. every workout with your Next Big 3 programm?

30

[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Chad Waterbury wrote:
Donut62 wrote:

Good post. Hackleman is one of the best. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t understand the sport.

Fighters don’t always follow the game plan. That’s not the coach’s fault.

I understand the sport but don’t know much about Hackleman other than him training chuck. What other MMA fighters does he corner? Or what other fighters use him for their primary camp?

This will help:

[/quote]

Thanks. Not exactly an elite list of MMA fighters.

31

[quote]KenMahler wrote:
Greetings Chad, i’ve got a quick question:
can i use the fat-loss progression of 60 sec. rest decreasing 5 sec. every workout with your Next Big 3 programm?[/quote]

I’ve got a quick question as well, wtf does your training program have to do with John Hackleman or Chuck Liddell?

Keep your bullshit out of this forum.

32

Alright, that last post was a bit dickish of me. Let me clarify why posing questions here to Mr. Waterbury are shitty on your part.

First, this forum has a specific focus of which your question is not related to. Obviously you could extrapolate that your training protocols are relevant to your combat sports training, but it is obvious you posted your specific post to CW in this thread because you saw him posting in it.

So now you’ve taken the thread in a different vein and those of us looking to debate Hackleman’s training methods are relegated to going over an unnecessary post regarding your training.

Secondly, Waterbury has plenty of other forums where he could go to give you advice and answer questions. Did it ever occur to someone to take into account his desire to maybe bullshit about MMA because he enjoys the sport and would like to do so without being inundated with training regimens or protocols?

33

A trainer’s decision is really hard to second-guess.

What if Chuck doesn’t throw kicks or go for take downs because of wrecked knees? It’s not like they are going to advertise this: “Chuck’s knees are wrecked. That’s why he only throws punches.”

In terms of fundamentals, does anyone think Hackleman hasn’t worked on those? In the Jardine fight, a YouTube video surfaced showing Hack teaching people to check and then counter a leg kick with an overhand right. Chuck didn’t do that once in the Liddel fight.

It seems like Liddell is going to do whatever he wants to do. So it’s not the trainer’s fault.

34

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Who else has Hackleman trained that’s any good? My sense is that he is the problem. If chuck wants to fight at an elite level he needs to train with elite guys.

He trained Chuck into one of the most dominant MMA champions ever, I wouldn’t call him a “problem”. It’s just that guys get stale working in the same environment all the time, and things like the basics they learned long ago start to erode.

Just look at boxing. The top trainers like Emmanual Steward, Freddie Roach, Mayweather Sr., Teddy Atlas, etc will be training a top fighter one fight, and be training his opponent the next. Just getting a fresh pair of eyes on what you are doing can make all the difference.[/quote]

Yup.

Sometimes your long time trainer isn’t the best one to tell you what you’re doing wrong.

35

[quote]slimjim wrote:
Alright, that last post was a bit dickish of me. Let me clarify why posing questions here to Mr. Waterbury are shitty on your part.

First, this forum has a specific focus of which your question is not related to. Obviously you could extrapolate that your training protocols are relevant to your combat sports training, but it is obvious you posted your specific post to CW in this thread because you saw him posting in it.

So now you’ve taken the thread in a different vein and those of us looking to debate Hackleman’s training methods are relegated to going over an unnecessary post regarding your training.

Secondly, Waterbury has plenty of other forums where he could go to give you advice and answer questions. Did it ever occur to someone to take into account his desire to maybe bullshit about MMA because he enjoys the sport and would like to do so without being inundated with training regimens or protocols? [/quote]

Yea, really. Let the poor bastard just bullshit once in a while.

That question was really out of place.

36

so much correct on this thread i wish i could stand up and applaud

37

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
A trainer’s decision is really hard to second-guess.

What if Chuck doesn’t throw kicks or go for take downs because of wrecked knees? It’s not like they are going to advertise this: “Chuck’s knees are wrecked. That’s why he only throws punches.”

In terms of fundamentals, does anyone think Hackleman hasn’t worked on those? In the Jardine fight, a YouTube video surfaced showing Hack teaching people to check and then counter a leg kick with an overhand right. Chuck didn’t do that once in the Liddel fight.

It seems like Liddell is going to do whatever he wants to do. So it’s not the trainer’s fault.[/quote]

That’s definitely true. But it may add even more credit to the idea that Chuck needs to go train with someone else who will demand he listen to them. He might be too close to Hackleman (like someone else stated above) at this point to the point where he no longer feels the need to listen to him.

As far as fundamentals go, it’s pretty clear that Chuck hasn’t worked on them enough. As the old saying goes, you fight how you train. Judging by how he fights, he does not drill things like keeping his hands up enough.

Also, Hackleman himself stated (in that quote above) that his strategy actually revolves around keeping the hands low.

I agree that he probably would be best to go train somewhere else, or at least bring in different trainers to work with. He needs a fresh perspective, to work on his strategy/fundamentals and quite possibly he may have simply outgrown Hackleman.

As far as Hackleman’s credentials, I agree with others that Chuck is the only one he has ever taken to a high level. Chuck has fantastic natural gifts, so quite possibly he could have reached the top training with any decent coach.

Until Hackleman gets some other fighters to a high level (in MMA, K-1, or any combat sport) I don’t think you can really say he’s a great coach. He himself was a successful striker, so he has that going for him. But just because you can do something well, doesn’t mean that you’re a good coach.