What did you expect when you stated a tread -You?re Croatian when?- ?
If you had one with You?re French when? I could have wrote ? you start waving a white flag out of habit etc ?you can write a post like that and ?offend- any nation/nationality but I see I have struck a big nerve here.
I?m also not too happy that people are putting words in my mouth -alstan90-
I have never called an entire nation anything negative or positive, that?s just ridiculous on so many levels.
Eclectic, I do not even know what you mean by your statement?
As far as the logic of -We are not the only one that?
Would you argue in court that Robert Blake should be found innocent because OJ got off and he killed two people? that?s just a bad argument and illogical deffense Loppar.
Now if you would like to discuss other -Butchers of the Balkans- such as Milosevic etc we can start another thread. Both Serb and Croat extremists have performed horrendous acts on their own people. To be fair, both sides have also had many strong character leaders attempt to end the violence. Many of which paid with their lives.
As far as Tudjman and his anti Semitic views here some quotes from his book
Wastelands-Historical Truth published in 1989
?That the estimated loss of up to 6 million dead is founded too much on both emotional biased testimonies and on exaggerated data in the post-war reckonings of ar crimes and squaring of accounts with the defeated perpetrators of war crimes?.- page 156
In the mid-Eighties, world Jewry still has the need to recall its "holocaust " even by trying to prevent the election of the former UN Secretary General Kurt Waldheim as President of Austria!
And some articles from various sources
One interesting article can be found here;
And another one here;
-Tudjman was a nationalist, a racist and anti-Semite. As president and army commander-in-chief he was personally responsible for driving 400,000 Serbs out of Croatia. The country, which originally had a Serbian population of 12 percent, is today almost "Serb-free-.
From an article by
By Justus Leicht and Peter Schwarz
16 December 1999
Tudjman on the Holocaust: "With regard to Jews, I'm inclined to agree with those scholars in the world who say that the figure of six million is exaggerated" [The New Republic, Jan. 20, 1992, p. 5].
And another From NY Times
April 22, 1993
Anger Greets Croatian's Invitation To Holocaust Museum Dedication
By DIANA JEAN SCHEMO,
As world leaders gathered for the opening of the Holocaust Memorial Museum here, Holocaust historians and survivors today condemned an invitation to the President of Croatia, Franjo Tudjman, who has been accused of writing that estimates of six million Jewish dead were inflated and that Jews were among those running a Croatian concentration camp. Mr. Tudjman, (pronounced TOODGE-mahn), in a 1988 book "Wastelands: Historical Truth," estimated that 900,000 Jews, instead of six million, died in the Holocaust, said Simon Wiesenthal, the renowned Nazi hunter. Elie Wiesel, the Nobel laureate, has also attacked the Croatian President for asserting that the number of dead in the Holocaust had been exaggerated.
As far as why anyone with some knowledge of WWII looks at Croatia they way they do is not just because Pavelic regime was collaborating with the Nazis but how they did it. Infamous Max Luburic, the commander of Jasenovac camp, openly boasted that they 'killed more Serbs in this camp for 4 years, than Turks did for 500 in whole of Serbia. Cardinal Stepinac and Croatian Furher Pavelic, made an infamous plan where ' one third of Serbs in Croatia had to be converted to Catholicism, one third had to be forcibly expelled and one third had to be exterminated'! There are letters between Cardinal Stepinac and Vatican (including Pope) from which you can see that this plan actually originated in Vatican itself. German generals were 'astonished by Croatian barbarism' in dealing with Serbs (Jews were massively killed in German Concentration camps, but where never exposed to the level of torture as Serbs were in Jasenovac!
And if you can not believe that Vatican is not so much involved in Croatian affairs even today -please check this: http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/20/wponte20.xml
(Vatican accused of shielding Croatian war criminal)
Pope actually beatified Cardinal Stepinac in 1998
Since I usually get paid for history lessons you can do the rest yourself. Start by reading these books.
Gudescu & Prcela
Serbia?s Hidden War
Phillip J Cohen
Yugoslavia ? Death of a Nation
Silber and Little
Tito-The Rise and Fall of Yugoslavia
The Balkan Tragedy
The National question in Yugoslavia
Avro Manhattan (of radio free Europe fame)
The Yugoslav Auschwitz
That's just the start.
Best wishes to all of you.