T Nation

You're Bulking?!?! *Gasp*

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Erasmus wrote:

Lifting hard and heavy. What is meant with that?

If you have to ask this question, you need to back away from the computer and actually go to a gym and watch people train. Watch how college level football players train and pay attention to how much they put into a workout.

There is no formula. However, we all know it when we see it. If you don’t, this (bodybuilding) may not be the best use of your time.

Do you really think the really large lifters you see are pulling out calculators?
[/quote]

Just asking dude
And yes I think bodybuilding is a sport for me

Apologies for the hijack

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Don’t tell 'em our secrets, prof, they may actually end up getting big and then we won’t stand out as much anymore…

[/quote]

There will just be one more…in Holland
So watch out when you steal our bikes :wink:

I think bodybuilding and powerlifting cross over many times, especially for younger lifters like the aforementioned football players.

At some point they can become an amalgamation of each other, where the lifter lifts both very heavy and for intense volume, and grows into a strong and huge being.

It is not about calculators, as was eloquently described above. It is not about equations, it is not about board presses. It is about lifting huge iron and eating huge foods in order to become a huge being.

The reali bodybuilding/powerlifting is one where the lifter does not fret about limiting his body size by staying at a locked body weight. The lifter does not worry himself on RM calculations or special intricasies. He simply lifts the iron, enough to get huger while getting very much stronger on his chosen lifts, the big lifts, the squat/dead/bench.

But this isn’t all. The lifter eats mammothly, the lifter trains his biceps, he makes them scream, he makes sure his triceps are huger than his uncle’s horse’s horseshoe. He is built like a hulk, and he delights in both size and strength, but not size of the stomach belly, but the size of the MUSCLE belly. He eats and lifts to be an animal.

Eating big and training every time like my life depended upon it is what I’ve done up till now.
And that’s what I’m going to be doing in the future.
I’ve made it too complex I assume.
But I can’t stop thinking about what could be more beneficial for size and strength. Maybe it’s already known and I’m being a noob or I’m too stubborn to accept defeat and train just like the others do. Not that I don’t have huge respect for those who do!!! Don’t ever think that!! I just really want to have something new and good to bring to the sport.
But I’ll have to learn the basics first huh?
And thanks for the patient replies from the more knowledgeable people than me.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
mashed potatoes taste great. And in the grand scheme of things with a meal rich in protein there’s not reason not to include them if you’re bulking.[/quote]

I agree. I’m just being an idiot. I forgot my “[/sarcasm]” tags.

-chris

[quote]Phoenix Theory wrote:
I think you all know what the term “bully” your body into building more muscle means.

I am not worried about losing any abs or whatever, I was saying that of course yo have to eat more to gain muscle, but this won’t continue, eating say 1000kcal over maintenance may be say 3 lbs of muscle a month, BUT eating 2000kcal of maintenance won’t build 6lbs of muscle a month.

That is what I mean.

And I think Skip La Cour describes the bulkiong strategy best "Don�??t eat to get fat. Don�??t eat to stay lean. Eat to Grow!�??

  • PHeonix Theory[/quote]

The point is that it’s not only about cal intake. It’s about training. I know guy who “bulk” every september. how much muscle do they gain for their winter long effort, I can’t see any, just fat. Do their lifts go up, Doesn’t look like it.

Like i said it’s more than just food to gain lean mass.

-chris

it sounds like you have it figured out phoenix. check back in 5 years and let us know how it worked out.

If someone truly wants to bulk, I believe he should be somewhat experienced, def. not a newbie.
He should workout a lot, like a 4 or 5 day split with additional relaxed steady state cardio on top of that on at least three days.
The so often mentioned three times a week FBT, coupled with great amounts of food is just begging for fatness.
Increasing food intake should be done slowly and the bulking process should not be an excuse to pig out with trash.
I think it’s even more important to eat good foods.
The training should focus a lot on weak points, since a) the body will grow ideally when progress is all around and b)weak and neglected areas tend to force injuries when assisting in big lifts.
Training should include occasionally heavy days, but not really explosive oly days or somesuch. The amount of training is already so much for most trainees you want to stay realistic and avoid injuries and too much fatigue at all costs.

Health should be monitored, especially with “aaspecial help”.

Okay guys, i little change to the plan.

I will eat as much as I like, on the condition that I do not gain 1/8th of an inch to my waist over 2 weeks.

If I am doing more than that I feel that I will be eating to far and eating to get fat. Though I do not underestimate the effort that it would take to reach that.

The measurement is just a figure that I feel if i meet every 2 weeks (1/8th inch gain at waist) I am providing by body enugh nutrients to gorw to its full potential.

Note, I do not mention an calories as I do not know how much muscle MY body can gain at this time. But From this appoach I am pretty sure I will gain at its near optimal rate:)

Any comments on this?

  • Phoenix Theory

[quote]Phoenix Theory wrote:
Okay guys, i little change to the plan.

I will eat as much as I like, on the condition that I do not gain 1/8th of an inch to my waist over 2 weeks.

If I am doing more than that I feel that I will be eating to far and eating to get fat. Though I do not underestimate the effort that it would take to reach that.

The measurement is just a figure that I feel if i meet every 2 weeks (1/8th inch gain at waist) I am providing by body enugh nutrients to gorw to its full potential.

Note, I do not mention an calories as I do not know how much muscle MY body can gain at this time. But From this appoach I am pretty sure I will gain at its near optimal rate:)

Any comments on this?

  • Phoenix Theory[/quote]

What?

-chris

Basically I am not setting myslf a limit at what im gunna eat.

I will eat as much as it takes so that i add 1/8 of an inch to my waist every 2 weeks, OBVIOUSLY i will be training hard as well.

This will basically mean that my body is getting sufficient nutrients to grow at an optimal rate.

Though as I said, i do not underestimate the hseer amount fo food that i will have to eat. it will be the hardest part of the lifestyle. and the best (at times)

I feel this is a very customizable thing. as two different people will require different calories to accmplish this dependng on lifestyle, training and genetic factors. And this method seems to incorporate that to allow maximal possible growth.

Hope that helps clear it up.

Why are you going to judge your progress by gains in waist size? That is the only place on your body where you want to limit gains. Why not base progress on a combination of arm/chest/leg/whatever size, increases in strength, AND waist size. If the first two are increasing and waist size is staying the same or increasing at a slower rate, you are doing a good job.

The goal of bulking is not a bulk belly. It is trying to get as big and strong as you can while not getting fat.

[quote]Phoenix Theory wrote:
Basically I am not setting myslf a limit at what im gunna eat.

I will eat as much as it takes so that i add 1/8 of an inch to my waist every 2 weeks, OBVIOUSLY i will be training hard as well.

This will basically mean that my body is getting sufficient nutrients to grow at an optimal rate.

Though as I said, i do not underestimate the hseer amount fo food that i will have to eat. it will be the hardest part of the lifestyle. and the best (at times)

I feel this is a very customizable thing. as two different people will require different calories to accmplish this dependng on lifestyle, training and genetic factors. And this method seems to incorporate that to allow maximal possible growth.

Hope that helps clear it up.

[quote]Avocado wrote:
Sounds great but I find that the results of the bulk depend as much on WHAT foods you eat as well as how MUCH.

Another huge huge factor is what your training looks like. Are you lifting like you’re bulking? Are there 2-a-days in there? What’s your split? Do you have structured interval training and energy systems in there?

When you eat big I find it’s a great time to work the 20m - 100m sprint. Doesn’t prevent any growth and actually stimulates great PosChn growth. Good time to make sure you’ve got your box jumps in too. Maxing your speed/vert is great while bulking. You get big hops.

So I’d say that the ramping of the cals is one small part of a structure of more small parts. It’s when you get them coalescing into a nice big whole that the ‘magic’ appears.

Ill be doing it too beginning december 15th. good luck sir. eat your yams, best bulk “veggie” ever.

-chris [/quote]

very true.100m sprints done 2-3 times per week will jack up your back and legs, and prime your body to heavy lifting.It also makes you produce 15X more growth hormone than normal at rest for 48-72 hours after the workout(unlocking very fast muscle gains).i do 10X100 2 times per week when bulking. However not everyone can sprint. You have to be pretty fit to do 10x100.

I am not eating to get fat, i am eating to gain muscle

I am not judging my progress by wasit size, i am judging my caloric intake by waist size!
I am judgin my progress by scale weight and progress in the gym.

[quote]engerland66 wrote:
If the first two are increasing and waist size is staying the same or increasing at a slower rate, you are doing a good job.

[/quote]

I understand but during my previous fat loss, i was gaining strength and losing size at the waist, so according to that idea I was making progress in muscle gain!

The point fo the fact that the wasit is increasing (which is gtting really boring of repeating) is that I know that i will be eating enough to stimulate as much hypertrophy as possible.

Heres a question for you:
If there is no fat gain then how do you know that your reaching your potential in building as much muscle as fast as possible?

[quote]Phoenix Theory wrote:
I am not eating to get fat, i am eating to gain muscle

I am not judging my progress by wasit size, i am judging my caloric intake by waist size!
I am judgin my progress by scale weight and progress in the gym.

engerland66 wrote:
If the first two are increasing and waist size is staying the same or increasing at a slower rate, you are doing a good job.

I understand but during my previous fat loss, i was gaining strength and losing size at the waist, so according to that idea I was making progress in muscle gain!

The point fo the fact that the wasit is increasing (which is gtting really boring of repeating) is that I know that i will be eating enough to stimulate as much hypertrophy as possible.

Heres a question for you:
If there is no fat gain then how do you know that your reaching your potential in building as much muscle as fast as possible?

[/quote]

You are judging your muscle gain on how much your waist is increasing. Why not judge your muscle gain on gym performance? If your strength is going up and your waist is not increasing, why would you eat more just to see your waist go up? That is the picture you are painting. Who knows what your optimal rate of growth is, you obviously have not been doing this for very long.

Assuming you are training hard, then yes, you are right, gaining some fat will lead to as much muscle mass as possible. My point is that this arbitrary assignment of a number (1/8") based on what you think will happen is pointless because you have obviously never done this to any great degree before. If you are eating big, your waist is going to fluctuate anywhere from 1/2" to more based on time of day, type of food intake, shitting schedule, so on and so forth. You are setting yourself up for a headache, IMO, but do as you please.

… might I recommend diving, or ping pong?

You are making this waist increasing thing seem like I am goingto get fat in about an hour. That is 1/8th of an inch in 2 weeks, obviously measured at the same time of the same day.

This arbitary numbr was recomened by Chad Werbury in his muscle revolution book, with the a reletivly same recommmendation from one o the bodybuilders at AnimalPak.

But I supppose I should take the advice of someone he is 172lbs then. INstead of the big mother truckers that I wanna be like.

Oh and “MR POPOULAR” Help or shut the fuck up!

[quote]mr popular wrote:
… might I recommend diving, or ping pong?[/quote]

Bodybuilding…it isn’t for everyone.

[quote]Phoenix Theory wrote:
You are making this waist increasing thing seem like I am goingto get fat in about an hour. That is 1/8th of an inch in 2 weeks, obviously measured at the same time of the same day.

This arbitary numbr was recomened by Chad Werbury in his muscle revolution book, with the a reletivly same recommmendation from one o the bodybuilders at AnimalPak.

But I supppose I should take the advice of someone he is 172lbs then. INstead of the big mother truckers that I wanna be like.

Oh and “MR POPOULAR” Help or shut the fuck up![/quote]

Oh, well, since Waterbury wrote it…

Could I ask…since when did Waterbury become one of those “big mother truckers”? How many “big mother truckers” has he helped build in skinny newbies?

What is your definition of a “big mother trucker”?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eHqRynfb4Y

Prof what would your recomendation be then.
What measurement and limit do you think should used so that I know I am not eating to get fat?

Oh and I apprceiate the patronizing repetition of “BMT”!

Helpful

NOTE: am 18!