From my other thread here you know that I’m doing your GMM program and am currently bulking.
My plan is to keep doing this until the end of April, and then begin a fat loss phase.
I thought it’d be interesting to ask this question to you, because I recently read an article you written about maintaining strength during a cut. In it, you basically said it’s best to take the slow and steady approach.
However, after playing around a bit and also reading a ton, I concluded that for the way I like to do things, a fast approach might be best suited for me (I still believe that in the long term it wouldn’t really matter and the results would be about the same).
I tried Lyle McDonald’s “rapid fat loss” diet, which is basically a Protein-Sparing Modified Fast—you eat around 1000 kcal a day from protein only, for 2-4 weeks, manipulating refeeds in order to prevent the negative effects of dieting this hard.
So I came up with this plan. In his book, McDonald’s suggests that lifters do the diet for 13 days followed by 2 refeed days. In order to make this sustainable for 4 weeks (the whole month of May), I decided to lay it out this way:
Mon 950 kcal (225 g pro + cals from fish oil and incidental carbs in veggies)
Tue 950 kcal
Wed 950 kcal
Thu 950 kcal
Fri 950 kcal
Sat 2,700 kcal (refeed, adding calories from carbs only with minimal dietary fat)
Sun 950 kcal + 1 free meal
What do you think of this plan? I want to do it this, way for 4 weeks, with the goal being to shed as much fat as possible while retaining muscle.
What should I do training wise? I was thinking of doing GMM 3 days a week, but you advise people spend time in lower rep ranges. Would you recommend a program for this plan?
I might benefit from doing a session on Sunday, to get the benefits of the refeed. Which days do you suggest I train during the week?
In this extreme deficit, do you think I should add some cardio too? I read of the “ab Shredder” workout, which consists of pairing cardio with Ab exercises, supposedly helping to preferentially target the Ab area for fat loss. Could I benefit from this approach? If so, may a compound like yohimbine, or supplement like hot rox help me with this?
I’ll also include a picture of what I currently look like for completeness—at my weight, some may advise against a cut but I totally feel like a fat slob and I want to get to summer with abs looking like I actually lift.
It seems like to me you’re trying to find a shortcut. I don’t work things that way as I want to do things that are sustainable unless I’m getting ready for some kind of competition. I haven’t done Lyle’s rapid fat loss diet so I can’t comment on it.
Basically, you’re asking for guarantees for your questions and I can’t give them. Like “what do you think of this?” If I don’t have experience with it, then I can’t give an educated or experienced answer. It appears you’re over extending yourself by trying to do an extreme diet along with cardio and then changing a program that I outlined, then want me to say “yes, this looks good” and sign off on it. I can’t do that. Because I wouldn’t do things that way nor advise them. If you want to try it and find out what the results are, that’s always the best way. But I can’t give you an outcome for what that’s going to look like since I haven’t done it nor advise it.
I know it may sound like it, but I’m really not… My rationale is that the more time I spend cutting, the less I can spend building muscle… Hypertrophy is my end goal here, but I still find cutting to be a necessary part of the game in order to ultimately look good.
I figured if I used an approach that allowed me to spend less time losing fat (which to me really is not a shortcut… In the past I did 2 weeks of a PSMF and I can tell it’s hard to stick to, but I have enough discipline to follow any diet, I know myself on this), I could get back to gaining size asap.
I may have phrased things wrong here, but I’m not planning on changing your program. I actually asked which days you thought would be best to train on with that kind of regime, and asked if you had any experience with specific cardio protocols which, paired with diet, could help target the ab fat better.
A note on sustainability: I respect what you said very much, and I do acknowledge that such diet wouldn’t be sustainable. That’s why I plan on doing it for 4 weeks only.
I know many other knowledgeable people have discussed “crash diet” and how they are well-suited for some individuals, just wanted to hear your opinion on this too.
Well if it’s a crash diet, then yes it’s a “short cut”. I always prefer things that are sustainable. The best way to know if you’re suited for it is to just do it and learn from the experience.
I thought about that you said in this thread and decided to give it a go using your method for cutting.
So I’ll take a moderate approach over the course of 6 weeks instead of 4, following the guidelines in your article, “how to stay strong while dieting,” and “the bro diet.”
In the former, you suggest to try new approaches training wise, so I started browsing and I noticed Gironda’s 8x8.
I never did anything similar, so after reading his principles (mainly articles by CT) on this site, I tried to come up with a split. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this:
Mon back hamstrings
RDL warm up, then 1 set of AMRAP
Lat pulldown 8x8
Seated cable row 8x8
Lying leg curl 8x8
Tue chest tris
Neck press 8x8
Incline db press 8x8
Rope pushdown 8x8
Overhead rope extension 8x8
Wed off
Thu shoulders
Wide grip Bb Upright row 8x8
Seated Db OHP 8x8
Face pull 4x15
Cable lateral raise 4x15
Fri quads bis
Back Squat 8x8
Leg Extension 8x8
Hammer curl 8x8
Cable curl 8x8
Sat off
Sun off
Is this a viable option for cutting and sparing (or hopefully even adding some) muscle?
This approach sounds good to me both for the novelty factor and for the very brief rest times (30 s or less in fact) that are said to have a conditioning effect as well.
A couple of weeks into the fat loss phase I’ll also add one or two weekly sessions of cardio.
Your training approach should be about performance and muscle retention. It’s your diet that will pay the biggest dividends in terms of physical appearance, i.e. less bodyfat. Any option for training is a good option so long as you’re able to recover from it and the effort is high enough to retain muscle.
Sorry for the short reply before…lemme offer up some advice here for that program.
Cut the 8x8 into 4x4.
Realistically, as the calories drop you’re going to hit some energy slumps and it’s going to make doing the 8x8 really really hard. But not to mention, I just don’t think that 8x8 is needed. I think if you can’t get it done with 4 sets then you’re probably not training hard enough.
Also to add, 8 sets of squats and 8 sets of leg extensions…that’s 16 sets for quads (hams and glutes as a side product)…that’s a LOT of work in a deficit.
On back and hamstring day I would do hamstrings AFTER back because there’s some synergistic work going on there. The lats and back play a big role in romanians. So do the pulldowns and rows first, THEN the lying leg curls and THEN the RDL’s. This way you use the lying leg curl to “even out” the fatigue between the hamstrings and lats before the RDL’s.
I love the bench press to the neck, but I’d also do the incline db press first, so as to fatigue the pecs/delts/triceps a bit so that way you don’t have to use as much weight for the neck press, which will provide a little bit more safety with that movement. It is the one movement I do believe can be hard on even the most robust of shoulders.
So, since you are suggesting I change the 8x8 for a 4x4, what do you think it’s best for load selection and rest times?
As you know, the 8x8 method dictates very short test times and has you select a specific load in order to get an effect from that protocol. With the 4x4, should I lengthen rest times and go heavier, for a more “strength oriented” workout?
Lastly, 4x4 on all the exercises that I originally wrote with 8x8? Do you suggest I use 4x4 on the leg curl and db press also? Not questioning what you suggested at all, I’m just acknowledging that it’s an unusual rep scheme for most assistance exercises like lat pull downs.
Just wanted to let you know that the first week of diet went by and I feel great.
I lost 1.54 pounds at 2,500 kcal a day which means that the target calories were perfect for me!
I enjoy your higher carb approach (seeing as most coaches suggest low carb dieting) as I find it difficult to eat much fat anyway and I love carbs (this way I can still enjoy a ham sandwich at school when I’m the hungriest and my rice with tuna or salmon).
Training wise, I’ve been sore all week lol which at least to me means that I indeed chose a way of training that my body wasn’t accustomed to, like you suggest doing. Squats with 30’’ rest are BRUTAL.
So thank you for all, and I’ll let you know how this cut goes in the end!
Hey, currently into my fourth week of dieting and looking for an input as to what to do next.
So, my initial weight when I started dieting was 170.8 lbs, and after 3 weeks, I now weigh 165.5 lbs.
Training wise, I didn’t lose any strength: in some lifts I progressed (if you recall, the program I’m doing is based around keeping weight and reps and reducing rest from week to week), whereas in others I’m stalled but didn’t lose strength.
My best accomplishment? On week 1, I barely managed to get in 4 sets of 8 on the squat for 180 lbs with 30 seconds of rest, whereas last week I was capable of doing the same weight and reps with 20 seconds of rest!
I feel my conditioning has improved and short rest squats have taught me to breath more effectively. Today I’ll have back and hams and I’ll be resting for 15 seconds. This means that in Friday I’ll do squats with the same weight and half the rest I used on week 1.
I’m now eating 2,300 kcal a day and have been having to deal with hunger on some days, but I never gave in.
I’m looking more defined and abs are showing when flexed but I’m still not happy.
I’m planning on staying on the cut for all the month of May, so what can I do next?
I’m debating whether to decrease calories further. I think an option may actually be to keep calories the same and sub some carbs for some protein (like 50 grams). What do you think?
I’m thinking about adding cardio. Do you have any experience wit the “ab Shredder” workout? If so, would it be wise to add 2 such workouts a week on off days (like Wednesday and Sunday morning)?
Should I keep on with my program or sub it for some heavier weight oriented program? Reading some of Lyle McDonald’s works, there seems to be evidence supporting that intensity truly is the most important factor for retaining muscle during a cut, and doing 4 sets of 8 I’m afraid might not be heavy enough.
With the goal in mind of keeping as much muscle as possible (or even adding some), when would you suggest a refeed? I haven’t eaten at maintenance for the whole 4 weeks (I was out at a birthday party last Saturday and had pizza and ice cream, but I’m pretty sure I was still under maintenance at the end of the day), and maybe at the end of this week a refeed might be due. What do you think?
Sorry for bothering you with a ton of questions and thank you for the help as always
All in all, I have to say that I’m not the happiest with how it went though. It was my first time focusing my effort for a whole 8 weeks into cutting so I can’t be disappointed as a first try.
I have two questions:
For the last 7 days of cut, what could I do? I’ve been cutting down calories pretty aggressively during the last two weeks, keeping carbs only on workout days and living on protein and a little fat on the others. I’m thinking about doing one last blitz at very low cals, but I’m afraid at this point (having been weeks in a deficit) reducing calories further could lead to muscle loss. What’s your take?
Although I have lost fat, my abs aren’t showing all that much. I figured this is because I’m still to fat, but at my current muscle development level I don’t think it’s wise to get any leaner than this. However, I also wondered if this could have to do with not having developed abs. I never do any direct ab work, so do you think I should include ab work from now on and see if the look of my abs gets better?
BTW, I seem to have an 8 pack down there, under all the fat. I can feel that I have separation in my lower abs, it’s not a single “piece”. Too bad I have a nasty layer on my lower abs which I bet will make it pretty hard to ever get them to show…
I think going on some hypocaloric “blitz” would be really dumb. You’re not going to do something amazing in a week that didn’t show up from the previous 7.
Yes it’s because you’re still not lean enough. It’s not ab work, it’s because you’re not approaching this like I said two months ago. To take a long time out to achieve it. Like a lot of guys you want it and want it yesterday. I would stay the course and avoid any “blitz” and go for another 4-6 weeks.
IF you’re not feeling like death then you’re probably not doing enough to get lean, or have lowered cals enough to get TRULY shredded. There’s no way around that “feeling”. Trust me when I tell you if your cals are low enough for long enough, and you’re doing a lot of work, you will feel absolutely atrocious. But on the other side of it are the shreds.
