T Nation

'Your Tears Are Not Enough...'



...we want your guns, too.

So says our Dear Leader, hot on the heels of the latest Tragedy du Jour, wherein an ex-military man, in possession of a security clearance and three firearms despite being diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, was somehow able to enter a secure military compound and shoot a few dozen people.

The reason this terrible tragedy happened, says our Dear Leader, is not because a heavily armed clinical psychopath was for some reason allowed access to a military installation, but because restrictions on firearms in this country are just too darned lenient.

Never mind that this happened in the District of Columbia, which already has THE most stringent gun control laws in the country, many of which were clearly disregarded by the shooter, along with various other laws, such as the ones prohibiting assault with a deadly weapon and murder.

I predict, in addition to yet another push to ban semi-automatic magazine-fed rifles, an expansion of the definition of "emotionally unstable" that will disqualify citizens from owning firearms, and an aggressive demonization of the nation's newest bogeyman: the ex-military "lone wolf" gun owner.


Hell, he can have my guns. I'm so scared that I'm getting ready to go down to my local jail and ask if I can stay there. If they tell me I can't, then I'll have to have myself committed. Anything to avoid life!

Please protect me, Master! When you whip me, I know it's only because you love me and I've done wrong.


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"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."

Had they seen him clearly do you honestly think it would have made one iota of difference? For all the talk of "buyer's remorse" among Obama supporters do you really think a significant number of the people who voted him in twice really think that he hoodwinked them?


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So what is the difference between a semi-automatic that looks like a military issued firearm, and a bolt or lever action rifle with a clip or shotgun with "one in the barrel and two in the tube?"

Yes, you don't have to go through a "motion" for a follow-up shot, but that's it. I can understand with the extra requirements for owning a full auto weapon, but semi? Come on. Might as well make all handguns illegal too, then we'll do bolt and level, pump, double-barrelled, over-unders, and finally single shot.

Muskets are ok, because they take 30 seconds to reload (unless you have speed loaders), that's only 1 potential kill target. And they are accurate to only about 100 yds.


Zbigniew Brzezinski, from Power and Principle: Memoirs of the National Security Adviser

Oh wait, no, I'm wrong. It was O'Brien from Nineteen Eighty-Four. I always get those two fuckers confused.


Sad, but predictable. No crises that can't be used for "good"! Using emotion from tragedies to pass agenda based legislation is nothing new. No disrespect for the dead, but we are in a world of the living. Passing laws to honor the dead and not have them die in vain is bullshit. How do we even know the dead would support these new proposals?


Oh, it's even stupider than that, Quasi. The rifle pictured above is a nice, wholesome sporting rifle...


...whereas this rifle is an evil, sinister Assault Weapon.

What is the difference between the two? None whatsoever. They are the same rifle.


We may have Charles Bronson ''Telefon'' situation here lol...Discovery Channel had this hypnotist on
where he put a guy into one of those near INSTANT trances,...the guy later then shot an individual with a pistol filled with blanks,
and even later when 'awakened', he saw himself do the dirty deed on video and was obviously shocked he did this,
The kicker: The guy who was hypnotized to perform this fake assasination was a COP.

IDK about this shit...but if a Police Officer can succumb to this kind of powerful suggestion....hmm.
Are there hypnotized 'sleeper' mass shooters out there waiting for their trigger words?...Yeah, I realize that sounds crazy,
This could be movie/conspiracy bullshit as well....''The Woods are lovely, dark and deep, and many miles to go before I sleep"...:wink:


The average person can't tell the difference, and neither can your average legislator.

Or else they can, and simply play on the ignorance and knee-jerk emotional response of the average TV-watching prole to pass ever more stringent controls over personal weaponry.

An interesting point to ponder is why semi-automatic rifles are even part of this conversation, when it appears that the weapon used was a pump-action shotgun--a Remington 870--poster child for the "legitimate sporting use" firearms trotted out by mealy-mouthed apologists for an emasculated Second Amendment.

When the story broke, law enforcement officials claimed that most of the shooting was done with an AR-15 rifle, but this appears to have been a lie. It seems clear that the only three firearms carried by the shooter were the shotgun and two pistols.

Why the lie, if not to inject the specter of the evil "Assault Weapon" back into the public consciousness once again? Especially now that the AR is the most popular rifle among firearms enthusiasts.

The military-style semi-automatic rifle is the Al-Qaeda of firearms. Any manner of atrocity can be blamed on it, and the people will clamber to give up their liberty in order to be protected from it.


Hey Man, if those 2 rifles are the same, and one is EVIL because it LOOKS evil, that's GUN RACISM Man!!

Perception IS ''reality'' to most people Varq...you know that, and there never will a ''cure'' for those
perceptions, it's human nature, and that horseshit is nothing new....''Nothing new under the sun'', I think
an ancient text sez that....so true...maybe the Quran?


I think its kind of odd that Obama is trying to use the Naval yard shooting as a rallying point for new gun control legislation, if anything this shooting highlights bureaucratic incompetence that no laws can fix.

Whether its the legal system dropping the ball on Alexis shooting into his neighbors apartment, and the construction workers car. The VA not providing adequate mental health treatment after Alexis went seeking help for mental problems. Or the background investigators ignoring the police reports from the Seattle shooting incident when deciding to approve Alexis's security clearance. The only real blame there is to go around is reserved for Alexis and a incompetent bureaucracy.


Not so crazy.

Another interesting thing to note about all of these mass shooting perps is the fact that they all seemed to have been on some form of antipsychotic or antidepressant medication. Not saying that this was responsible for their actions, but it bears consideration.

The shooter claimed that he was receiving instructions remotely by some sort of microwave device. The CIA has a long and illustrious history of experimentation with "artificial telepathy": behavior modification and remote transmission of covert programming to (sometimes unaware) operatives via HF and ELF frequencies. Projects wih colorful names like Project Moonstruck, MKULTRA and MKDELTA have been in the works since the 1950s.

Dr. Robert O. Becker, who was twice nominated for the Nobel Prize, said this about artificial telepathy: "such a device has obvious applications in covert operations designed to drive a target crazy with "voices" or deliver undetected instructions to a programmed assassin."

I admit, this is delving deep into tinfoil-hat territory, and it is not really my intention to take the thread there, but it does bear at least a passing thought.

What if the shooter wasn't crazy at all, and had no idea what he was doing?

One final word about mental illness and mass shooters: Charles Whitman, perpetrator of one of the most deadly mass-shooting sprees in history, wrote in his journal that he would like his brain examined after he died, so that science could find out what his problem was. What the medical examiner found was a tumor pressing on his amygdala, the "emotional center" of the brain. It's not clear how much of Whitman's crimes can be attributed to his disorder, but one thing is certain.

He was the one ultimately held responsible for his actions, not his weapons.

It was a different country then.


somewhat relevant to the topic at hand.


It was a different Country, I remember the TV Movie ''The Deadly Tower'' where Kurt Russell played
I'm glad you mentioned SSRI's...'just didn't wanna overload my last post too much with Conspiracy sounding shit lol,
ARE there ''Conspiracies''? Yes there are, but the challenging part is to separate the wheat from the chaff
perusing some of these more obscure sites and sources....

anyway the SSRI connection is too strong to dismiss, 'problem
is these Pharmaceutical Companies pay big bucks to advertise on ALL news networks conservative or liberal,
and these Reporters need to walk on eggshells and watch what they say regarding that...On TV anyway.


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That survivalist board we've talked about in the past has brought up this very same point. Instead of trying to go after "normal" people, the government can place restrictive bans on those with or showing signs of mental illness. Now, that makes sense right? We don't want a bi-polar person with access to a firearm, or whatever extreme disorder might exist.

But where is the line drawn? How many Americans take anti-depressants or some other drug? How about how many people have ever been to a psychologist? Ever claim mood swings or depression?

Sure the above examples are the extreme, but it goes along quite well with what you are saying.

And I think its funny they claimed AR-15. You'd think folks who would be "giving the word" would know what different guns sound like (weren't they on a military installation?). A shotgun does not sound like a rifle. Maybe the pistols could be confused, but I'm still doubtful. It was hype - apparently the news was giving whatever "updates" they could just to get the story out and then had to backtrack - its embarassing.


It really is looking like the beginnings of a perfect storm of weapons restriction and confiscation.

A national database of medical records, accessible by federal and state law enforcement, with a notation of every medicine you have ever been prescribed, and every anxiety or emotional disturbance you have ever mentioned in "confidentiality" to your practitioner.

An entire generation of children diagnose with ADD, ADHD, depression, and anxiety, and pumped full of drugs to help them cope and concentrate.

A massive percentage of the population diagnosed with clinical depression or some other mental condition, again dosed up on a cocktail of antidepressants, antipsychotics and anti-anxiety drugs.

A huge number of returning veterans, historically the group most feared by despotic governments precisely because they are typically well-armed, politically aware, physically fit and cynical about authority, diagnosed with "post-traumatic stress disorder" and duly drugged up to help them ease back into civilian life.

All it will take is a couple more of these engineered--yes, I said it, engineered tragedies to push through legislation to prohibit the ownership of firearms by anyone who has ever been diagnosed with a mental or emotional disorder (and the new DSM-V can be interpreted loosely enough so that EVERYONE can be considered emotionally or mentally disturbed in some way or another), and voila. They can disarm anyone they like.

Do you oppose any government policy? Do you question the official version of any story on the news? Do you stockpile food, precious metals and ammunition in preparation for a possible emergency? Then you are obviously a delusional paranoid schizophrenic who is a danger to yourself and others, and has no business owning a firearm.