I have no idea so I’m just playing devils advocate here, but since we hear gear improves “nutrient partitioning” maybe it possible more of the protein you eat gets used for muscle instead of energy. If this is the case it could make sense you would need less while on?
That being said either way I agree better safe than sorry- within reason.
[quote]G0D123 wrote:
Reed , may i recommend “how much protein by brad pilon” packed with scientific data proving you dont need soo much protein when training natty or even for most geared users…
now to my point from what i have read, i might get super bashed for this but just think about it for a minute…
for eg: take a simple cycle…
300g protein ED x12 weeks of test = 25.2 kg of ingested protein
250g protein ED x12 weeks of test = 21 kg of ingested protein
200g protein ED x12 weeks of test = 16.8 kg of ingested protein
and most of the pros/noobs would be more than happy with a 5-7 kg (10-15lbs) muscle gain !
the math doest stack up… only around 20-30 % of ur ingested protein becomes “muscle”… and pls dont forget muscle is more than just protein, its actually 80% water ! so that’s like 1-2 kgs of protein added to ur body frame… so with my really bad math only 7-12 % of ur ingested protein.
crazy amounts of protein doesnt seem to mean more muscle imo ! and even from my small cycle exp with a diet of just 150 grams of protein (max) that was considered “horrible” by everyone including myself, to my surprise i went on to put on like 14kgs at end of week 10 and now at week 2 of pct im at +10kgs
MY OPINION SUMMARY ! Protein is seriously overrated !! maybe carbs have a much important role to play than protein alone…
remember the protein industry is a multi billion dollar industry !
[/quote]
At least someone is trying to put some math and science to this. It’s hard for me to wrap my arms around the more is better science.
Body type isn’t mentioned anywhere here!
Ectomorph would gain well on a 40g protein shake and a Costco pizza, and stay lean and metabolize the shit ingredients in the pizza.
Endomorph on the other hand… would devour it, turn all the shit ingredients into fatty tissue and be starving about 40 minutes later.
Macro ratio requirements for bodybuilding differ greatly depending on your body type, juice doesn’t change that.
That being said, if a person is running AAS for bodybuilding purposes, I would never recommend less than 200g of protein a day. Unless it was a dwarf. Or a woman. Or both.
[quote]G0D123 wrote:
the math doest stack up… only around 20-30 % of ur ingested protein becomes “muscle”…
[/quote]
Close, but not quite. Protein is metabolized into amino acids in the small intestine. The amino acids must make a first pass through the liver before entering the bloodstream. The majority are converted into sugar metabolites and enter a catabolic pathway to be used as (inefficient) fuel. 20-30% of amino acids survive the first pass unchanged and become serum amino acids which have the POTENTIAL to be used in muscle building, or wherever else they are needed.
One could easily use this fact to argue the opposite point. If only 20-30% of amino acids are usable for anabolism (most of which won’t even become muscle), then it could easily be argued that it’s all the more important for lifters and athletes to take in more protein to facilitate recovery. It’s both common sense and generally supported by science that athletes have greater protein requirements than the sedentary population.
How much more is the question we really need to be asking, and the one science seems to be pretty sketchy about answering properly. I think a safe answer is “not as much as the supplement companies would like us to believe.” But I, personally, would rather err on the side of caution and not risk not making the gains I want.
anyways my experience 1-1.5g x lean body mass ended up me puttin 9-10 kgs… pct still running into the final weeks… so i cant give an exact figure right now…
so i strongly recommend and even google too, taking your lean muscle mass into consideration and not total body weight !
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]G0D123 wrote:
the math doest stack up… only around 20-30 % of ur ingested protein becomes “muscle”…
[/quote]
Close, but not quite. Protein is metabolized into amino acids in the small intestine. The amino acids must make a first pass through the liver before entering the bloodstream. The majority are converted into sugar metabolites and enter a catabolic pathway to be used as (inefficient) fuel. 20-30% of amino acids survive the first pass unchanged and become serum amino acids which have the POTENTIAL to be used in muscle building, or wherever else they are needed.
One could easily use this fact to argue the opposite point. If only 20-30% of amino acids are usable for anabolism (most of which won’t even become muscle), then it could easily be argued that it’s all the more important for lifters and athletes to take in more protein to facilitate recovery. It’s both common sense and generally supported by science that athletes have greater protein requirements than the sedentary population.
How much more is the question we really need to be asking, and the one science seems to be pretty sketchy about answering properly. I think a safe answer is “not as much as the supplement companies would like us to believe.” But I, personally, would rather err on the side of caution and not risk not making the gains I want.[/quote]
Well worded.
IMO since there is little to no drawback of ingesting tons of protein (outside of kidney strain, intestinal discomfort, or cardiac concerns for select few)) why not just go nuts and get as much as possible.